Buy a Mini One or Cooper or Cooper S?

CAMRC

Hi, Im looking for a bit of advice regarding my current motoring situation. Driving an 99 Toyota Corolla Hatchback that Ive had for 4 years and has been reliable to date. Cost 5,500 when I bought it. Went for NCT a week and half ago & it failed on emissions, cv boot & deformed tyre (I just sent it in to see the probs). Yesterday, a heat cover on the cat converter came off also. Took it to a local backstreet garage today he was very helpful and said that cat converter needs replacing at least because emissions were so high & told me the car was running "rich". Minimum of 450 euro to replace cv boot, tyre, cat converter & even then its not guaranteed to be fixed from emissions point of view because it could be the sensors etc...

Car is reliable but I did run into a ditch with barbed wire about 2 and half years ago so there is scraping along passenger side & quarter panel has a good dent in it too.

Have been considering buying a Mini Cooper S for a long long time and have been looking at them for too long to mention. Anyway, if I was to buy Id be borrowing & the budget would be 12000 roughly. For a cooper s you would be lucky to get 2004 for this but realistically a 2003 from the figures on websites but Id say in this market I could whittle them down a bit. For the same price there are a few Mini One around 2006/2005.

I going to test drive both but does anyone think Im mad for considering a cooper s at all & should just settle for a cooper or one? Does anyone have experience of minis who could give me sound advice. Realistically, I love the aesthetics of the Cooper S, the leather interior, front vent & exhaust etc whereas I just find the coopers & ones plain looking in comparison.

Speed is not the issue because I dont speed! & anything will be better than the oul Corolla :rolleyes:

Or should I just fix the corolla and stay out of debt????

All advice is appreciated!! Thanks.

Sorry for the long winded post.

Zube

CAMRC wrote: »

Or should I just fix the corolla and stay out of debt????

You like a looker, don't drive fast, have 12 K to spend, don't care that the Mini is as practical as a chocolate teapot, so I'll recommend this:

The MX-5.

Graham_B18C

There's loads of other cars, the Cooper S is ment to be fantastic though, you could get a very nice car for 12k, what about an Audi TT

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=1393221

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=1340603

And they're the more powerfu ones, I'm sure you'd get the less powerful one cheaper than those two

Darragh29

On the Corolla, bring it to someone who knows what they are doing for a start. The problem is either a lambda sensor, a manifold vacuum leak, a cat, or a combination of problems relating to these components.

To just quote you 450 Euro to change a cat with a qualification like, "Oh by the way, it could be something else", is the wrong approach. Sensors should be tested to eliminate them as a problem and the cat should be examined for evidence that it is at end of life. Too many folks just change a cat first and then start looking for the actual problem after they change the cat and the emissions are still failing.

CAMRC

Thanks for the advice given so far, it has been helpful but tbh my heart is set on a Mini. Ive been thinking over the weekend and went to test drive a few & Im even more convinced

My main question is now. Is this a good deal (dont want to give too much away here i.e. dealer). Test drove Mini One (2006) on sat. It selling for 12950, has offered me 1500 for my car to trade in. Also drove Cooper S (2003), selling for 11950 with same trade in deal. Now its a heart over head and vice versa decision....... On driving, Ill be honest and say there didnt appear to be a major difference in them...... Should I go with the One & is this a good deal?

If I do go for it, what should be my checklist at the next stage & do you think I should ask for more off?

Thanks in advance

Anan1

If you don't see much of a difference to drive between the One and the Cooper S then buy the one - it's cheaper to buy (year for year), cheaper to insure, and it should be more reliable. I can't advise you much on price, other than to say that it's a buyers market. Ned78 knows MINIS inside out, hopefully he'll be along soon. What you should do is edit the title of your thread to something like 'MINI - One or Cooper S?' - that should bring a few resident experts out of the woodwork.

Darragh29

I wouldn't be in a position to advice you on price OP as my specialisation is mechanics. What I will advise you however, is to take into account a decent warranty package when buying. Mini's have some known problems (power steering rack is a known issue on certain models). I say this regularly on here, don't take less than a 6 month warranty package, ideally, get a 12 month warranty with the car. All too often on the forum, you'll see folks with a 1 or 3 month warranty package, looking for advice when something has done seriously wrong with their motor and it is out of warranty. Only this week a poster had a problem with a car that had a 1 month warranty and the timing belt broke around month 5. If the car had a 6 month warranty, this would not be a problem.

In the "current climate" (I hate that cliche!), your money should go a bit further so shop around and make sure the outlet you buy from will stand over their product.

mini mouse

id go fro a cooper over a one.....that's what i was advised when buying mine....better car and hold value better apparently!!
its impossible not to buy one once you test drive them eh?

Anan1

Thread title changed, at OP's request.

Owen

Physically, there's nothing really separating the three MINIs, the One, Cooper, and Cooper S all have the same interior and exterior dimensions, what separates them fundamentally is what's under the bonnet. The years you're looking at all use the 1.6 tritec engine, which has superb reliability and potential.

The MINI One is 90Bhp, and the Cooper is 115Bhp, but both will remap to 135 Bhp (Real Bhp, not pub talk Bhp), and the One ends up being the better car because of it's longer gearing. The Cooper S in 2003 is 163Bhp, with with a remap, smaller supercharger pulley and exhaust manifold will easily reach 220Bhp.

The One and Cooper were fitted with standard suspension, and you could opt for sport suspension. The Cooper S had sport suspension, and you could up that ante by asking for sport suspension +. If it's every day driving, you'd be hard pressed to go wrong with a Cooper, but if you're into performance Cooper S is where it's at - at the expense of fuel economy. Mine does 32mpg on a good day, as low as 16mpg when I'm pushing it. Also bear in mind, because the supercharger's benefit isn't really felt until about 4k rpm, on a back road, both cars are evenly matched.

There are issues with the pre-04 cars you need to be aware of. Check the engine mounts aren't leaking - if they are, they'll need to be replaced, and also when stationary, turn the steering from full lock to full lock - any clunks or knocks on the way, and it's a new steering rack. The steering makes a whining noise - don't worry about that.

[EDIT] Forgot to say that pre the facelift in 04, the gearbox was made by Midlands, the post facelifts being made by Getrag. The Getrag unit was quicker to accelerate, and also didn't crunch as much going into reverse - however if you put the clutch in on the Midlands box, and leave it for a second to mesh, it won't crunch either.

Anything else, just ask.

Soarer

CAMRC wrote: »

On driving, Ill be honest and say there didnt appear to be a major difference in them

If that's the case, I'd say there's something wrong with the Cooper S you drove.
There's approx. 80bhp in the difference between a One and an S, so there should've been a massive difference in performance.

Edit: Did you ever think of importing one? Obviously not knowing exactly what you're looking for, but this Mini Cooper S would be bought and registered on this side for less than €10k. You'd probably even get a 04 Cooper S in the UK bought and registered for less than your €12k budget.

Owen

In fairness to the OP, between the Cooper S and the Cooper, there ain't a whole pile of difference until you start getting up to around 60mph where the Cooper S will keep pulling hard, where as the Cooper will run out of puff around 80mph and amble up to 100mph give or take.

Soarer

ned78 wrote: »

In fairness to the OP, between the Cooper S and the Cooper, there ain't a whole pile of difference until you start getting up to around 60mph where the Cooper S will keep pulling hard, where as the Cooper will run out of puff around 80mph and amble up to 100mph give or take.

Didn't know that.
I woulda thought the extra bhp and torque from the supercharger would make a big difference right across the rev range?

You learn something new everyday I suppose.;)

smash

For 12k you'll land a 220bhp JCW Cooper S from the UK

Owen

steve06 wrote: »

For 12k you'll land a 220bhp JCW Cooper S from the UK

210Bhp, and the VRT on the JCW is ridiculous - 35%. The early 2002 models are around 7500 Sterling, which is about 8500 Euro, the VRT on that is 4434, so the figure works out at round about 13k - and that's for the 2002 model alone. Go with a more recent model and it get's a lot heavier.

smash

well you can get some upgraded http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1009977.htm

but here's a Hartage Cooper S, 2002, £6,595/€7,385
I wouldn't even mention the Hartage upgrade and you get VRT of:

smash

PS: VRT for a JCW is so high because they don't have the correct CO2 info, if you add the correct info it goes way down!

Owen

steve06 wrote: »

PS: VRT for a JCW is so high because they don't have the correct CO2 info, if you add the correct info it goes way down!

The model spec sheet you've posted is for the newer R56 JCW's only released in 2008.

The emmissions on a 200 bhp early JCW from MINI UK is about 207g/km IIRC, so my bad, that'd be 32% VRT, but the later 210bhp kits end up being in the 36% bracket. Not to mention the unofficial JCW 225bhp kit only supplied by the MINI Motorsport Centre who are all ex-JCW staff.

Or you could try to VRT the MINIs made by Fireball Tim over in the states. Tim says he's getting over 600bhp from the 1.6 litre these days

kona

ned78 wrote: »

The model spec sheet you've posted is for the newer R56 JCW's only released in 2008.

The emmissions on a 200 bhp early JCW from MINI UK is about 207g/km IIRC, so my bad, that'd be 32% VRT, but the later 210bhp kits end up being in the 36% bracket. Not to mention the unofficial JCW 225bhp kit only supplied by the MINI Motorsport Centre who are all ex-JCW staff.

Or you could try to VRT the MINIs made by Fireball Tim over in the states. Tim says he's getting over 600bhp from the 1.6 litre these days

thats mental,600bhp in a MINI! id say those cars are some craic. Could you buy the cooper, then drop it in and get the JCG conversion done by JCG? or did they close the MINI part too? this way you could get a cooperS in for the VRT of a cooper?

Owen

kona wrote: »

thats mental,600bhp in a MINI! id say those cars are some craic. Could you buy the cooper, then drop it in and get the JCG conversion done by JCG? or did they close the MINI part too? this way you could get a cooperS in for the VRT of a cooper?

I know 2 people who've done it, and they say they'll never do it again - they said by the time you've bought the engine, installed it, replaced nearly the entire loom, and control units, it would be almost as cheap to just buy an S.

Interestingly - and you'd love this - when the S JCW conversion is done, the supercharger is replaced. And where do a lot of those superchargers end up? In classic Minis

kona

ned78 wrote: »

I know 2 people who've done it, and they say they'll never do it again - they said by the time you've bought the engine, installed it, replaced nearly the entire loom, and control units, it would be almost as cheap to just buy an S.

But Id imagine that they are better cars than the factory S spec, you could also add a load of other goodies while you have the engine out. Also they will save on the VRT.

ned78 wrote: »

Interestingly - and you'd love this - when the S JCW conversion is done, the supercharger is replaced. And where do a lot of those superchargers end up? In classic Minis

yea ive noticed that, tricky conversion too by the looks of it. The best conversion is the 16V BMW head, I dont trust superchargers and turbos on the old A-series:D:o

OP buy the S you will regret it if you buy the one or the cooper, the one is slooooow and the cooper is okay, but the S is the way to go if you want fun:cool:.

Owen

kona wrote: »

yea ive noticed that, tricky conversion too by the looks of it.

Bolt on conversion And the best bit is there's a decompression plate that goes on the head to make the whole kit and caboodle more reliable. Here's one for sale that's had the work done :

1980 Supercharged Mini for sale

kona

ned78 wrote: »

Bolt on conversion And the best bit is there's a decompression plate that goes on the head to make the whole kit and caboodle more reliable. Here's one for sale that's had the work done :

1980 Supercharged Mini for sale

thats not supercharged:o well I cant see where it is. I was following the build on that before, wasnt it a automatic? It was sprayed twice too.. whatever cowboy did it, didnt prime it right or somthig. Engine is unusual, a 1430...nice although id have shoved a 286 cam in it, the sw5 i wouldnt imagine would be great on the large bores...and strokes:D none the less id say its a little rocket.

pity its for sale, 2 years ago that would sell no problem but i cannot see him getting 9k for it these days:(

Owen

kona wrote: »

thats not supercharged:o

Seriously, that's supercharged. You should hear the whine out of it

Anan1

ned78 wrote: »

There are issues with the pre-04 cars you need to be aware of. Check the engine mounts aren't leaking - if they are, they'll need to be replaced, and also when stationary, turn the steering from full lock to full lock - any clunks or knocks on the way, and it's a new steering rack. The steering makes a whining noise - don't worry about that.

[EDIT] Forgot to say that pre the facelift in 04, the gearbox was made by Midlands, the post facelifts being made by Getrag. The Getrag unit was quicker to accelerate, and also didn't crunch as much going into reverse - however if you put the clutch in on the Midlands box, and leave it for a second to mesh, it won't crunch either.

Anything else, just ask.

So are we basically advising the OP to go for a post-facelift One or maybe a Cooper if they prefer the look of the particular car enough to justify the extra money?

kona

ned78 wrote: »

Seriously, that's supercharged. You should hear the whine out of it

Straight cut gears maybe? or a ****ed box, my box whines in 1st and 2nd:D its on its way...:cool:

If it is supercharged and a 1430 then it must be whacking out 130-140 bhp?

Owen

kona wrote: »

If it is supercharged and a 1430 then it must be whacking out 130-140 bhp?

Close to anyway. If you read down through the description, you'll see he makes mention of the supercharger kit and it's installation.

Owen

Anan1 wrote: »

So are we basically advising the OP to go for a post-facelift One or maybe a Cooper if they prefer the look of the particular car enough to justify the extra money?

Definitely post facelift if they can afford it. It's a much more refined car, internally, externally and mechanically.

kona

ned78 wrote: »

Close to anyway. If you read down through the description, you'll see he makes mention of the supercharger kit and it's installation.

just saw it there, he should put it in the pics! Thats some spec on that mini, feel bad for they guy he barley has it finished and he has to sell it.:mad::mad:

CAMRC

Ok so I am getting a better idea now. I should go for the One/Cooper and make it look nice?? I know it will be costly but I think that might be the way to go. Im sure if I wanted advice on how to do it a few of you could help me, but tbh it wouldnt be something Id be able to do right away Id say!!

What is a reasonable price for a 2006 Mini One do people think??

Thanks a million for helping out btw:D

Owen

CAMRC wrote: »

Ok so I am getting a better idea now. I should go for the One/Cooper and make it look nice??

If I was you, I'd buy a one, debadge it, remap it, dechrome it, and fit the MINI John Cooper Works bodykit. The car suddently becomes a lot more purposeful when you do that. As I said before, the One has longer gear ratios than the Cooper, and really suits the remap. You'll end up with a 135Bhp car, that can do 70mph in second gear.

CAMRC wrote: »

What is a reasonable price for a 2006 Mini One do people think??

About 14-15k in today's market.