Penalty Points

kleftangel

Searched Google and here and couldn't find anything specific enough. Does anyone know whether the gardai have to give you penalty points on the spot or not? I got pulled over for speeding but they only saw me. They didn't have a camera and they took my name and address off my license. Can I get penalty points at a later date if he didn't mention them?

focusing

They send you a "fixed penalty notice" in the post.

It's essentially an offer that if you pay a fixed fine within a certain number of days, you'll get a certain number of penalty points, but you won't be summonsed to court.

If you don't pay, you'll be summonsed to court and face the prospect of a higher fine and double penalty points.

But you don't get the points unless you either pay a fixed penalty notice fine or are convicted in Court.

Del2005

kleftangel wrote: »

Searched Google and here and couldn't find anything specific enough. Does anyone know whether the gardai have to give you penalty points on the spot or not? I got pulled over for speeding but they only saw me. They didn't have a camera and they took my name and address off my license. Can I get penalty points at a later date if he didn't mention them?

It's policy not to tell you if you are going to get a FPN, don't know why. You can get convicted for speeding on the word of a Garda, but AFAIK they have to bring you to court for it. Only way you'll know for sure is if you hear nothing about it for over a year.

McCrack

To secure any conviction a person needs to be convicted in a court.

Maybe any of the Garda member posters can clarify but I don't think anybody gets summonsed to court for alledged speeding these-days on the uncorroborated word of a Garda.

No proof no conviction me thinks.

Our man in Havana

Del2005 wrote: »

It's policy not to tell you if you are going to get a FPN, don't know why. You can get convicted for speeding on the word of a Garda, but AFAIK they have to bring you to court for it. Only way you'll know for sure is if you hear nothing about it for over a year.

Speeding is what they call a fixed charge offence. So they have to issue a fixed charge notice first. If you don't pay within 56 days you go to court.

A member of AGS should be able to confirm if they can dispense with the FCN and go straight to court on the speeding, esp in the case of very high speeds.

I don't think anybody gets summonsed to court for alledged speeding these-days on the uncorroborated word of a Garda.

It is normally the word of a Garda supported by the reading from an approved device.

vrfcno7

Bond-007 wrote: »

It is normally the word of a Garda supported by the reading from an approved device.

s.21(4) RTA 2002 - ....if proof of the offence involves proof of the speed at which a person (whether the accused or another person) was driving, the uncorroborated evidence of one witness stating his opinion as to that speed shall not be accepted as proof of that speed.

Therefore, it is pivotal the garda who stopped you had a radar gun of some sort. Their word alone will not suffice.
This requirement caused controversy a few years ago when hundreds of motorist were let off speeding offences because the law required that the equipment used to measure speed be able to permanantly record the incident in some way, and a copy of such record be given to the chargee before appearing in court. About 90% of garda radar guns are incapable of doing this. However this loophole has since been rectified.

Nevertheless, if he pulled you over and didn't have a radar gun which indicated your speed to him, you won't get any form of reprimand.
It's customary for them to let you see the reading on the gun, and I was under the impression this practice was mandatory (unless it was one of the guns that could permanantly record the incident, in which case they could just send you that record), however I am not sure whether this is mandatory or not. Could someone please clear that up for me?

Anyway, let us know if you get anything in the post :-)

Croc

Bond-007 wrote: »

Speeding is what they call a fixed charge offence. So they have to issue a fixed charge notice first. If you don't pay within 56 days you go to court.

A member of AGS should be able to confirm if they can dispense with the FCN and go straight to court on the speeding, esp in the case of very high speeds.


It is normally the word of a Garda supported by the reading from an approved device.

The decision as to issues a notice or go straight to summons lies solely with Garda to the best of my knowledge, if it was an extremely high speed they may not think the penalty on FCPS to be sufficient and may decide to let a Judge decide as the penalty on FCPS is fixed, also they may consider a charge of Dangerous or Careless driving as well depending on the circumstances.

Only way too have a conviction recorded is by a Judge in Court.

Only way to convict with out radar etc is the observations of two Gardai, or at least that was the case unless it has changed in the recent past.

cushtac

vrfcno7 wrote: »

Nevertheless, if he pulled you over and didn't have a radar gun which indicated your speed to him, you won't get any form of reprimand.It's customary for them to let you see the reading on the gun, and I was under the impression this practice was mandatory (unless it was one of the guns that could permanantly record the incident, in which case they could just send you that record), however I am not sure whether this is mandatory or not. Could someone please clear that up for me?

It's not mandatory.

daithip

Have prosecuted people for speeding without use of a speed gun, but had been following them for a distance taking an average speed over the distance and also had to have the patrol car speedo calibrated as one of the proofs in court. As cushtac states its not mandatory but just good practice to show the speed on a gun.

vrfcno7

daithip wrote: »

Have prosecuted people for speeding without use of a speed gun, but had been following them for a distance taking an average speed over the distance and also had to have the patrol car speedo calibrated as one of the proofs in court. As cushtac states its not mandatory but just good practice to show the speed on a gun.

I'm quite surprised at this. How did you measure an average speed? Did you use a watch and your odometer to measure the time taken to travel a set distance? I suppose you were traveling relatively close behind him, so as to ensure you were not travelling slightly faster/slower that the perpetrator, right?

Hooch

vrfcno7 wrote: »

I'm quite surprised at this. How did you measure an average speed? Did you use a watch and your odometer to measure the time taken to travel a set distance? I suppose you were traveling relatively close behind him, so as to ensure you were not travelling slightly faster/slower that the perpetrator, right?

I have also done this before we received our calibrated vehicle.
Follow the offending at the speed and hold it steady at a set speed and distance from the vehicle. After stopping the vehicle, the local PSV officer checked our patrol car using the speed gun to show the vehicles correct speed at 50kmph, 80kmph and 120kmph. He can then given evidence as an expert that your speedo was reading right.

daithip

As nice guy said it is calibrated by Psv officer, but its also how cameras worked in the cars where an average speed is calculated over a set distance normally quarter of a mile or so. Honestly don't know if the new system works like that wold have to have it cleared up by someone in traffic.

Our man in Havana

Good old VASCAR.

Hooch

daithip wrote: »

As nice guy said it is calibrated by Psv officer, but its also how cameras worked in the cars where an average speed is calculated over a set distance normally quarter of a mile or so. Honestly don't know if the new system works like that wold have to have it cleared up by someone in traffic.

New ANPR system has two methods.

First one is as daithip said. You record the offending vehicle over a distance. Minimum of 100 meters but we try to do it as long as safely possible. (enough rope and all that). Once you press the stop it gives you the distance, average speed and time. This all shows up on the play back

Second one is travel behind the vehicle and simply hold it steady and take a still shot. Not tried and tested yet in court. I can see some judges accepting it but most not.

The first one is the main measure we use while driving.

fred funk }{

Sounds to me like the OP was pulled over by the Gardai on the side of the road and not from a patrol car. I would assume that a Garda can't issue a speeding ticket without any technical evidence. A Garda isn't qualified to judge a speed of a car with their eyes only so I wouldn't accept any ticket without evidence.

Hooch

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Sounds to me like the OP was pulled over by the Gardai on the side of the road and not from a patrol car. I would assume that a Garda can't issue a speeding ticket without any technical evidence. A Garda isn't qualified to judge a speed of a car with their eyes only so I wouldn't accept any ticket without evidence.

Dont jumpto conclusions though. Although Gardaí cannot give a speed for a normal vehicle travelling over the speed limit, they may quantify the speed if it is in their opinion, that the speed was in such excess of the limit as to be a breach of Sections 52 or 53 RTA (careless and dangerous driving).

I.E. a vehicle traveling at high speed in an estate with kids playing on green etc, as happened in my district once. Off duty took reg, when through process and convicted for Section 53.

kleftangel

Here is exactly what happened,

I was traveling at an admittedly high speed around a corner, passing a Garda patrol car. They flashed their lights at me so after the next roundabout, I pulled over and they turned around and pulled in. They asked for my license which I showed. They took my name and address and didn't even warn me about my speed, or tell me to slow down in future. None of the normal stuff. But there was no radar gun or following involved at all.

rathdowney

I got pulled over for "swerving on the road"
i gave them my licence and they asked me
for a breathalyzer test, i passed and appoligised
They didn't take down any details or anything

Could i still get point or was that just a procedure
from them?

JR

Our man in Havana

Keep an eye on your letterbox for the next few weeks. You never know you may have escaped with a warning.

rathdowney

I hope i don't get a letter
i went to the garda station later on that night
i told a garda in the station what happened
he said not to worry about it etc..
but still..he wasn't the one who pulled me over...
this was at 1am in the morning when i got pulled over
it was just me and my friend in the car.

Hooch

rathdowney wrote: »

I hope i don't get a letter
i went to the garda station later on that night
i told a garda in the station what happened
he said not to worry about it etc..
but still..he wasn't the one who pulled me over...
this was at 1am in the morning when i got pulled over
it was just me and my friend in the car.

If the members didnt take your details dont worry about it. If you were swerving then they suspected drink driving.
(on a side note swerving over the road is dangerous and illegal and crossing a white line is an FCPS offence, not just overtaking on a white line)