Motorway Safety

TheNog

Was wondering if any of the Traffic, Ambo and Fire folks have been given training in Motorway safety for when they initiate traffic stops or attending traffic collisions.

I remember watching a programme some time ago on the training given to Motorway Police in the UK and the measures taken to ensure their officer safety.

If there is no training given, what would you like to see happening?

Bang Bang

As we know different incidents pose some different challenges, but the ultimate is safety for all, and of course patient care.
In the Ambulance Service we haven't received any additional training for motorway incidents. We still apply the vehicle "Fend Off" where you use emergency vehicles to form a barrier or protective wall around the working area. A fire tender is best for this as it can remain in that spot and equipment can be carried to the crashed vehicles. Whereas Ambulances will be moving away sooner than the fire tender.

You will always get the rubber neckers who are only interested in twisting their necks to beyond it's working range just to get a glimpse of what's going on. I have personally seen many other minor incidents happening after being caused by these rubber neckers who aren't paying attention to the road ahead and around them.
We only have to remember we lost a Garda and Fire Fighter in tragic cicumstances whilst attending a road accident.

If I feel the working area is getting too dangerous due to other road users then I will ask one of the attending Gardai if it would be possible to close the road until the scene is safe for all.
I know closing the road creates many traffic problems, especially for the Gardai but when it comes down to the safety of Emergency Service personnel and patients then I think the hassle is worth it if we all go home safely to our families at the end of our shift.

Apologies for the long winded reply. But I would like to see ongoing monitoring of how other Emergency Services handle motorway and national road accidents and if there are improvements to safety then let us look at implementing them here in Ireland.

Paulzx

http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/FireandEmergencyServices/FireServicesCouncil/FileDownLoad,16747,en.pdf

If you are on dial up don't bother clicking on that link

Our normal response to an RTA call is

1 Water Tender ( standard fire engine )

1 Rescue Tender

1 Ambulance

When the RTA is on a motorway we upgrade that to

2 Water Tenders
1 Rescue Tender
1 Ambulance
District Officer


This is purely to provide extra crews to fend off the scene safely.
The link above explains fending off properly.

Paulzx

Paulzx wrote: »

http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/FireandEmergencyServices/FireServicesCouncil/FileDownLoad,16747,en.pdf

If you are on dial up don't bother clicking on that link

That is some document. Is there any eventuality it does not cover? It looks as though it would take you longer to read it than cut somebody out of a car.

civdef

The trend now for the fire service is to close off a road whenever there is any doubt about traffic safety. Working in close proximity to fast moving traffic just isn't a great plan generally.

maglite

Up to 20% of all spinal cord injuries occur after the initial injury. This
additional damage to the cord is caused by movement of the unstable spine
during extrication, treatment or transport.'

Basic Rescue and Emergency Care
by the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons (1990 edition).


Do they not have access to a book from this century?

maglite

maglite wrote: »

Up to 20% of all spinal cord injuries occur after the initial injury. This
additional damage to the cord is caused by movement of the unstable spine
during extrication, treatment or transport.'

Basic Rescue and Emergency Care
by the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons (1990 edition).


Do they not have access to a book from this century?

What difference does it make when the book was published? The same statistic probably still applies.

bryanmurr

got advice rather than training when i went into traffic.

if stopping on a normal road, park tight to the bumper so he cant get momentum to reverse into your car,

on motorway keep a good distance back, nose of your car out (to create safety zone)with the wheels pointed left so if your hit it sends the car into the left rather than onto the carrigeway.

but no official training as such

Smokey Bear

I belive DFB are curently reviewing motorway procedures for incidents to deal with the 3>6 lane sections.
Have (or will be soon) increased motorway PDA to
3 x motors
1 x ET
1 x DO
Ambo as required
Additional motors to be used for fend off now even if equipment or crew not needed giving better scene safety for all.

Smokey Bear

Fishtits

Topical question.

I was listening to the radio this evening, (Jenny Huston 2FM) she received a text reporting a tyre lying on the outside lane of the M8 near Cahir.

How do you deal with that?

Hooch

bryanmurr wrote: »

got advice rather than training when i went into traffic.

if stopping on a normal road, park tight to the bumper so he cant get momentum to reverse into your car,

on motorway keep a good distance back, nose of your car out (to create safety zone)with the wheels pointed left so if your hit it sends the car into the left rather than onto the carrigeway.

but no official training as such

Advanced and new response driving course cover this.

Fishtits wrote: »

Topical question.

I was listening to the radio this evening, (Jenny Huston 2FM) she received a text reporting a tyre lying on the outside lane of the M8 near Cahir.

How do you deal with that?

Call the motorway maintance, Lagan in the M8 case. NO member of AGS should be running around a motorway picking up a tyre.

TheNog

bryanmurr wrote: »

got advice rather than training when i went into traffic.

if stopping on a normal road, park tight to the bumper so he cant get momentum to reverse into your car,

on motorway keep a good distance back, nose of your car out (to create safety zone)with the wheels pointed left so if your hit it sends the car into the left rather than onto the carrigeway.

but no official training as such

nice guy always wrote: »

Advanced and new response driving course cover this.

So the couple of thousand of drivers on Chiefs are fecked!!!

civdef

Safety on roads is part of the basic training of firefighters now, it is also covered on officers courses and obviously on specialist RTA courses.

eroo

nice guy always wrote: »

Call the motorway maintance, Lagan in the M8 case. NO member of AGS should be running around a motorway picking up a tyre.

Sorry but that image has me grinning!:D

''Youse lawt couldn't catch a bleeding tyre on a moaterway''

Hooch

TheNog wrote: »

So the couple of thousand of drivers on Chiefs are fecked!!!

Aghhhhhh go away and get a driving course:D

nice guy always

nice guy always wrote: »

Aghhhhhh go away and get a driving course:D

Do you have any spare down there?

ART6

Bang Bang wrote: »

A

You will always get the rubber neckers who are only interested in twisting their necks to beyond it's working range just to get a glimpse of what's going on. I have personally seen many other minor incidents happening after being caused by these rubber neckers who aren't paying attention to the road ahead and around them.

+1 to that. Some time ago at a tee junction the car immediately in front of me pulled out into the main carriageway and got well and truly t-boned by a car traveling at speed. He took the front right off the other car and did a few exciting spins before slamming into the wall of the filling station on the corner. Myself and another guy left our cars and tried to direct traffic away from the scene down a slip road and through the filling station forecourt where the station personnel were directing them and keeping them slowed. As ordinary citizens, we immediately found out just how bloody stupid people can be. I had to jump out of the way several times when rubber neckers who seemed determined to become part of the accident scene tried to run me over. Shortly afterward the first squad car arrived and a lovely ban garda said "Thanks for your help, but you'd better get out of the way now before you get hit."

I felt guilty about leaving it to her, although she clearly knew much better than I how to deal with it all. But it did teach me one heck of a lesson. Now, in similar circumstances, I keep my rubber neck strictly under control and watch for instructions from the ES instead. Maybe what we need is publicity campaigns on TV about road accidents so that the ordinary motorists, not just the ES personnel, have some basic understanding of what to do when faced with an accident scene.

ART6

ART6 wrote: »

Maybe what we need is publicity campaigns on TV about road accidents so that the ordinary motorists, not just the ES personnel, have some basic understanding of what to do when faced with an accident scene.

No TV campaigns needed. Just some COMMON SENSE.

ART6

foreign wrote: »

No TV campaigns needed. Just some COMMON SENSE.

I don't disagree, but given that common sense doesn't seem to play much of a role in Irish motoring, what then?

Hooch

ART6 wrote: »

I don't disagree, but given that common sense doesn't seem to play much of a role in Irish motoring, what then?

There is several things wrong with Irish motorists. Too many to go into here, but in my opinion it starts with the driving test. I believe we should have regulations on instructors and make it compulsary to have lets say 6 lessons. Include in it stopping safely when AGS is behind you, how to move out of the way of ES vehicles what to do a the scene of an RTC etc etc etc.

Might be idea for new thread. A good rant:D

ART6

ART6 wrote: »

I don't disagree, but given that common sense doesn't seem to play much of a role in Irish motoring, what then?

I don't think there is one simple answer to that. NGA, has part of the solution in better instruction. But that will only go so far because most people just train for the test and revert to their normal driving style once they pass. I know I did. Maybe increased fines and points may help. Look how many people were scared into booking an NCT test recently due to the threat of 5 penalty points. Get more of us onto the street so we can at least try tackle the problems.

And just a note for people who use their mobile phones while driving, I have tried to stop motorists while doing this and they haven't seen me even though I look like Big Bird in my Hi-Viz jacket. If you can't see me in that what chance does a cyclist or child have?

This is an ad that I saw again recently which really drives home a point about observation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iqCcMDByLA

eroo

nice guy always wrote: »

Include in it stopping safely when AGS is behind you, how to move out of the way of ES vehicles what to do a the scene of an RTC etc etc etc.

How could that be taught without actually having ES vehicles behind you in your lesson? ''Pull in slowly there to your left'' will go in one ear and out the other!:D

Fishtits

"Call the motorway maintance, Lagan in the M8 case. NO member of AGS should be running around a motorway picking up a tyre."

Funny... if you like, but doesn't answer my question, or make the tyre go away.

What are the practicalities of removing debris from the outer lane of a motorway? I've thought about it and would imagine its labour intensive, anyone experience of a similar incident?

ART6

nice guy always wrote: »

There is several things wrong with Irish motorists. Too many to go into here, but in my opinion it starts with the driving test. I believe we should have regulations on instructors and make it compulsary to have lets say 6 lessons. Include in it stopping safely when AGS is behind you, how to move out of the way of ES vehicles what to do a the scene of an RTC etc etc etc.

Might be idea for new thread. A good rant:D

I tried out a suggestion on Martin Cullen when he was minister for transport and there was a massive test backlog. That was to (a) require all driving instructors to be registered and qualified, and subject them to annual performance reviews (b) Permit them to issue certificates of competence that allow learners to obtain a full licences, but only when the instructor feels they are suitably competent. No test, just on-going training. (c) Transfer the existing government testers into a new department that would regulate driving schools and monitor the performance of the instructors.

No more waiting lists, no more passes by people who have never had a professional lesson. No doubt there would be squeals of protest about the cost of the lessons, but if someone can afford several grand to buy a car and another grand or so every year to tax and insure it, then surely they could afford a few hundred on proper lessons?

Hooch

Fishtits wrote: »

Funny... if you like, but doesn't answer my question, or make the tyre go away.

What are the practicalities of removing debris from the outer lane of a motorway? I've thought about it and would imagine its labour intensive, anyone experience of a similar incident?

I did answer it. We call Lagan, who maintain the motorway. Its their job to remove it. Yes its time intensive involving several vehicles with a lot of flashing amber lights and one of those big arrow trucks. They make the tyre go away.