New Irish Internet Tax?

Dannyboy83

http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/06/2246224

"The Broadcasting Bill 2009 (currently in the last stages of becoming the Broadcasting Act 2009 and then being commenced into law in Ireland) has thrown up a rather unpleasant little nugget for broadband users in Ireland. It now defines a television set as being an electronic apparatus able to receive TV signals or "any software or assembly comprising such apparatus" which would mean that even if you haven't got a television set, even if you don't watch streaming content from RTE.ie (the state broadcaster's website), you'd still have to pay 160 euro a year for a television license for your iPhone, or netbook, or laptop or desktop if you have fixed or mobile broadband."

This seems like it could be a nice little money earner for the government.
I guess those who already pay for a TV License won't be too bothered, so it probably wouldn't face much opposition.

I can't imagine how they would enforce it amongst immigrants tho. I know plenty of immigrants, I've never heard of any of them paying a TV License.

Does anyone think this its credible/realistic that the government would enforce a computer tax?

McGrath5

I suppose the legislation is been brought up to date with technology, I have a couple of mates who dont own a TV in there apartment yet have a laptop each and they would watch a lot of football on them, presumably on RTE.ie.
So i guess bringing in legislation to cover desktops and laptops was always going to happen, but it also covering Ipod's or Iphone's is a bit much imo.

IIMII

Well the current licence is location based. They'd need to introduce a mobile licence or else you could get done on the train, office, hospital etc. But if they do that then holiday home revenue could be lost for second licences

Dr Galen

Immigrants would more than likely get found out the same as anyone else. The iinspector calls to the door, asks to see the license and then the process begins?

why is it any harder to enforce?

I'd imagine, its to close the loophole, more than to generate revenue. There aren't many houses that don't have a TV. I doubt that there are secret hoards of houses with no TV's, where everyone watches TV on the net. It actually looks like someone had an eye out for the future............

nuttz

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/06/2246224



[/I]This seems like it could be a nice little money earner for the government.
I guess those who already pay for a TV License won't be too bothered, so it probably wouldn't face much opposition.

I can't imagine how they would enforce it amongst immigrants tho. I know plenty of immigrants, I've never heard of any of them paying a TV License.

Does anyone think this its credible/realistic that the government would enforce a computer tax?

Did you notice that the slashdot article was linking back to a thread here?
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055556309

yoshytoshy

It might be better for them to call the licence something else ,maybe a communication/media licence.

Charge a fee for other devices and lower the tv cost.

Mena

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I can't imagine how they would enforce it amongst immigrants tho. I know plenty of immigrants, I've never heard of any of them paying a TV License.

Just as a point of note, I'm an immigrant, and just paid for my 10th TV license.

As to enforcement, we live in houses as well you know. It would be enforced the same way it's currently enforced.

Edit, that last line sounds a little sarky, but it's not intended that way

silverharp

Its one of the worst "make work" taxes around , it should have been got rid of years ago , by delinking it from the TV set , they are just saying its another tax , they might as well call it a window tax or a door tax.

silverharp

silverharp wrote: »

Its one of the worst "make work" taxes around , it should have been got rid of years ago , by delinking it from the TV set , they are just saying its another tax , they might as well call it a window tax or a door tax.

Pretty true.

Good 'ol Ireland. You now need a license to have a computer. Great stuff.:pac:

ART6

This has been the case in the UK for years. If you have a computer and a TV card in it then you have to have a TV licence. Another one of these cases, perhaps, of "Hey, see the clever new stealth tax the Brits have invented? Let's import it quick."

Hagar

Tax on knowledge.

Dannyboy83

ART6 wrote: »

This has been the case in the UK for years. If you have a computer and a TV card in it then you have to have a TV licence. Another one of these cases, perhaps, of "Hey, see the clever new stealth tax the Brits have invented? Let's import it quick."

IIRC, in the UK, you only need a TV License if you receive 'Live' Television.
So you can watch the BCC Iplayer and not have to worry about a TV License.

In Ireland, IIUC it seems to be be extended to anything capable of receiving a TV Signal. Perhaps the old 'one per household' rule will be repealed too?

Dannyboy83

Mena wrote: »

Just as a point of note, I'm an immigrant, and just paid for my 10th TV license.

As to enforcement, we live in houses as well you know. It would be enforced the same way it's currently enforced.

Edit, that last line sounds a little sarky, but it's not intended that way

Mena,
thats more than I've paid myself.

Its just that immigrants are less likely to own property, move around more frequently, and half of the people I knew didn't have TVs, just laptops for watching foreign films and skyping home.

They would now have to pay a TV License too (I can just imagine them laughing and putting the letter in the bin:D)

Breezer

Hasn't this been in the works for quite a long time? It makes sense to bring a law into line with modern realities. Much ado about nothing really. IIMII makes a good point about the current licence being location-based though.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

zielarz

When these idi*ts will start cutting expenses instead of introducing new tax? Why the government is robbing more and more of my money and giving it all to parasites like unemployed?

DSB

zielarz wrote: »

When these idi*ts will start cutting expenses instead of introducing new tax? Why the government is robbing more and more of my money and giving it all to parasites like unemployed?

In this economy unemployed are hardly parasites. We're just lucky to be working in the right industry.

NinjaTruncs

I wouldn't see the reason for this to be honest. RTE would be the ones benefiting from this and they would just piss the money away paying big wages to it's so called starts. Not really anything for the government to gain.

Hagar

How about a bit of honesty?
Let's stop calling this a licence, unless you need to do a special test to operate a TV, it's a tax. Pure and simple.

zielarz

DSB wrote: »

In this economy unemployed are hardly parasites. We're just lucky to be working in the right industry.

Government shoudn't demoralize people and that's what's happening. They're paying people for being unemployed. The whole recession is exaggerated by mass media. No one is saying that ~90% of people do have jobs. The remaining ones are on a dole because they don't want to work for less than they're getting right now for doing nothing.

PipInTipp

Ha!
Ya sure I'll pay for that....
If they have the ****ing cheek to introduce this tax
One I will not pay for it & two I will urge everyone I see not to pay for it.

oscarBravo

Dole discussion is off-topic.

O'Coonassa

PipInTipp wrote: »

Ha!
Ya sure I'll pay for that....
If they have the ****ing cheek to introduce this tax
One I will not pay for it & two I will urge everyone I see not to pay for it.

I'm so vexed that on the back of this I'm not going to buy any TV Tax certificate ever again and am telling them I don't even have a TV. If they want to get into my gaff to check they're going to have to come with a warrant. Cnuts! :mad:

thealltimelow

what next a tax for air ?

thealltimelow

thealltimelow wrote: »

what next a tax for air ?

Wouldn't surprise me, we have a carbon tax :rolleyes:

AlekSmart

Government shoudn't demoralize people and that's what's happening. They're paying people for being unemployed. The whole recession is exaggerated by mass media. No one is saying that ~90% of people do have jobs. The remaining ones are on a dole because they don't want to work for less than they're getting right now for doing nothing.

Well after todays rape and pillage of My paypacket I`m prepared to go with Zielarz on that assessment.
There`s little doubt but that the Governmint have got the balance seriously wrong this time.
The level of added direct taxation via levies etc is all well and good IF there is a commensurate widespread reduction in the manner in which those deductions are then disbursed back into the world.

This little Broadband Tax is just the type of small minded counterproductive item which appeals to Irish Public Administrators and their dull headed political bosses.
However,unlike the TV licence situation it should be borne in mind that we are already paying many and various service providers for broadband + VAT and it could be further argued that in many Irish locations Broadband is present in SPITE of Government policy rather than BECAUSE of it !!!! :mad:

Dannyboy83

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

I wouldn't see the reason for this to be honest. RTE would be the ones benefiting from this and they would just piss the money away paying big wages to it's so called starts. Not really anything for the government to gain.

There was a thread recently as regards the TV License differences in the UK & Ireland.

In the UK, the BBC recoup all proceeds.
In Ireland, the Irish government recoup all proceeds and then make a donation of these funds to the RTE.
This may be incorrect, but this is what was explained to me in the previous thread.
Apparently BBC donate some money to Channel 4, whereas RTE are not obligated to donate any to TV3.

I believe we already have a similar situation anyway with regard to roads.
( i.e. We pay road tax, but we also pay a duty on Petrol for road tax, so there is double taxation in effect (probably triple or quadruple taxation in reality when all other associated car charges are taken into account. I'm not aware how much the EU presently contribute to Irish roads, it makes me wonder where all the money is going however. )

I suppose unless they adjust the 'one per household' criteria, they are just widening their nets, to ensure those who don't wish to watch Irish television must pay regardless.

A shame they wouldn't adopt a similar policy with regard to broadband infrastructure, then again, they didn't know what to do with the money when they had it anyway, lol.

ART6

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

IIRC, in the UK, you only need a TV License if you receive 'Live' Television.
So you can watch the BCC Iplayer and not have to worry about a TV License.

In Ireland, IIUC it seems to be be extended to anything capable of receiving a TV Signal. Perhaps the old 'one per household' rule will be repealed too?

Six years ago my company was building a large process plant in the UK, and as the project manager I had to be on site 10 hours a day, 6 days a week. I rented a flat locally, and it had a TV in it. I received a licence demand but ignored it since I was never in the place long enough to watch TV. I then got a threatening letter and spoke to the licensing authority. I pointed out that there was a TV simply because it came with the flat, but I had never connected it to the communal aerial. The person from the authority asked if I had a computer there and I agreed that I did, for the convenience of occasionally sending emails outside of office hours. She asked if it had a TV card or a broadband connection, pointing out that if it did then I needed a TV licence. Needless to say, I made suggestions about what she and her employers could do with their time:(

The Corinthian

The law is being changed in many countries to reflect that Internet TV will be a reality before long.

Until that happens though, the entire thing is moot - after all, the legislation defines "any software or assembly comprising such apparatus". None exists in Ireland. Sure, we can get a few programs and limited streaming from rte.ie, but try charging a full licence for a limited service and see what happens - a court would likely tell RTE to go jump.

TV licences, outside of the UK, are at best tollerated nowadays, as a thowback of a time when there was no advertising in European radio, which was in turn a mouthpiece of the government. The reality is that TV, thanks to the Internet, is dying. I've not had a TV in years, for example.

In Ireland it's tolerated because you really don't need to pay if you don't want to. They might send you a few nasty letters, but it's unlikely that they'll ever turn up at your doorstep because they simply don't have the manpower. And if they do you can tell them to return with a warrant. And only if they do that, can they get you - but by then you'll have paid for your licence or moved your TV out.

Of course, if they really started enforcing it, I suspect that it would become a political issue as people would be less willing to tolerate it or the sheer incompetent cronyism of RTE. And I doubt if they want to push things that far as it could well lead to unwanted reform.

Bren1609

TV licence revenues were supposed to be paid to the state broadcaster to promote Irish tv programmes, but all the programmes on RTE are just imported from US or UK and any of our home grown programmes are just copies of what they do in UK e.g. jigs and reels, apprentice, dragons den, model agent. The worst of all has to be "The View", a bunch of trinity toffs sitting around trying to sound intelligent.

Hagar

The Corinthian wrote: »

The law is being changed in many countries to reflect that Internet TV will be a reality before long.

I get about 40 to 50 free channels through my ISP using a decoder box. I could get up to about 200 if I paid subs etc. That is where TV is going, well for countries with a functioning broadband infrastructure that is. Our TV licence is covered in our local taxes. It covers terrestial, digital and web-based TV.

You can expect local taxes in Ireland any day now.;)

Mena

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Mena,
thats more than I've paid myself.

Its just that immigrants are less likely to own property, move around more frequently, and half of the people I knew didn't have TVs, just laptops for watching foreign films and skyping home.

They would now have to pay a TV License too (I can just imagine them laughing and putting the letter in the bin:D)

Well I can't speak about anyone else, but when we moved here, we bought a TV before we had bought a bed :P

While I hate the whole concept of a TV license and agree it's just another tax, it's still currently necessary to have one, so 10 years ago when we bought our first TV in Ireland we popped down and got the license the next day. Renewed it ever since.