Politicians, posters and litter

OldGoat

The politicos have to remove their posters after a short period of time after the election or get done for littering. I wonder if it's possible to get them fined for littering for putting the posters up too early? If the posters are deemed to be litter 7 days AFTER the election then shouldn't they be concidered litter any more then 7 days BEFORE the election too?

(Note, 7 days is just an figure I made up and may or may not be the right number of days allowed to remove posters after the election and I may or may not be arsed to look up the right number of days)

And, while I'm ranting, what about those bloody plastic cable ties? They are litter too. Sniping them and leaving them on the ground when they remove the poster is still littering. Even worserest then that is leaving the damned bloody feckedy things on the lamposts in the first place.

I demand answers...and coffee. Mostly coffee.

KingLoser

worserest?!

Coriolanus

Apparently the first date that they're allowable has passed so it'd be hard to stick a pre-littering offense on a party.
They happy thing about the cable ties is that they're not traceable. Can't imagine we'll see any change in the practise.

On the other hand, if you're feeling vindictive, throw up a poster of your own villifying your chosen local candidate and hang it out a window or something.

snubbleste

I hope some enterprising spray cans and artistic talent pay a visit to some of those mugs staring down from every lamp post and make them easier on the eye

OldGoat

KingLoser wrote: »

worserest?!

I like makey up words. They are the funerist part of my day.

KingLoser

OldGoat wrote: »

I like makey up words. They are the funerist part of my day.

That's the most weirdful thingy I've heard all morning.

Vain

Iv decided not to vote this year because of all the posters they have up around my area and we are ment to be in a recession. That and they couldn't care less what i think because im only 20.

Mr.Lizard

Personashally I thinky they should finered for putting them up at any timeo.

Vain

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

Personashally I thinky they should finered for putting them up at any timeo.

alrighteo i hearz whaters youd be sayin. But whod be finered thim? Theeee gardiuhuqwhudhjnjsAHJDHFJWEnfdjnjdnhfcjnefjnefewNFCJNEW?

Saibh

Freedom for the lampposts!!!!

4zn76tysfajdxp

I dinnae like canvassing posters. They am mighty bad.

Capt'n Midnight

if you are worried about someone treating them as litter then take them down yourself to protect them.
then put them back up later when all the fuss has died down, two weeks after the election should be safe enough

Mr.Lizard

Is it against the law to vandalise election posters? I'm going to presume for the purpose of my entertainment this evening that it is not.

Mrs JackDaniels

Nevore wrote: »

Apparently the first date that they're allowable has passed so it'd be hard to stick a pre-littering offense on a party.
They happy thing about the cable ties is that they're not traceable. Can't imagine we'll see any change in the practise.

On the other hand, if you're feeling vindictive, throw up a poster of your own villifying your chosen local candidate and hang it out a window or something.

Don't know about other area's but in mine this year the cable ties are colour coded to the party for example the Fianna Fail cable ties are green. So if they are left on the lamp posts they are traced back to the party resulting in a hefty fine for them

johnny_knoxvile

Thats a great idea "colour coordinated cable ties" to trace which party ownes them.

Maybe FF should bring in colour coordinate envlopes instead of brown ones, so they can remember who gave them "dig outs".

Mrs JackDaniels

johnny_knoxvile wrote: »

Thats a great idea "colour coordinated cable ties" to trace which party ownes them.

Maybe FF should bring in colour coordinate envlopes instead of brown ones, so they can remember who gave them "dig outs".

Its not just FF they are all doing it!

johnny_knoxvile

Mrs JackDaniels wrote: »

Its not just FF they are all doing it!

true...

But i havent seen any other tribunals for members of political parties of late costing tax payers millions.

ibarelycare

OldGoat wrote: »

The politicos have to remove their posters after a short period of time after the election or get done for littering. I wonder if it's possible to get them fined for littering for putting the posters up too early? If the posters are deemed to be litter 7 days AFTER the election then shouldn't they be concidered litter any more then 7 days BEFORE the election too?

(Note, 7 days is just an figure I made up and may or may not be the right number of days allowed to remove posters after the election and I may or may not be arsed to look up the right number of days)

And, while I'm ranting, what about those bloody plastic cable ties? They are litter too. Sniping them and leaving them on the ground when they remove the poster is still littering. Even worserest then that is leaving the damned bloody feckedy things on the lamposts in the first place.

I demand answers...and coffee. Mostly coffee.

When are the elections anyway? I heard on the radio that some guy in Cork put his posters up at the weekend because he got the dates wrong. He had to take them all down and put them all back up again yesterday or he would have been fined €150 per poster!

Mrs JackDaniels

johnny_knoxvile wrote: »

true...

But i havent seen any other tribunals for members of political parties of late costing tax payers millions.

eh I was talking about the cable ties there sorry

OldGoat

ibarelycare wrote: »

When are the elections anyway?

5th June I believe. A whole month of having someone called Ardagh grinning at me through my office window. :mad:

el_tiddlero

you means graffiti like on this one attached??

it's from the lisbon vote, but still makes me chuckle..

RaverRo808

I never understood how a poster with someones face and name hanging off a lampost,is suppose to encourage someone to vote for them,has anyone ever stopped at a traffic light,and looked up and said to themselves 'hmmm De Rossa,Votial 1,yes beacause of that poster Im going to vote for him',I doubt it,maybe if they did something for the actual area instead of putting up ugly expensive posters at election time,we'd actually vote for them

Agamemnon

RaverRo808 wrote: »

I never understood how a poster with someones face and name hanging off a lampost,is suppose to encourage someone to vote for them,has anyone ever stopped at a traffic light,and looked up and said to themselves 'hmmm De Rossa,Votial 1,yes beacause of that poster Im going to vote for him',I doubt it,maybe if they did something for the actual area instead of putting up ugly expensive posters at election time,we'd actually vote for them

Yep, one of the worst things about election posters is that they're utterly useless. They don't advertise policies or achievements, they just demand the no. 1 vote. To make matters worse, Irish politicians are a hideously ugly species, most of them looking like they've been beaten, battered and buggered with the ugly stick. Ban the posters outright so we don't have to look at their inbred, pasty, leering, beady-eyed faces.

johnny_knoxvile

Mrs JackDaniels wrote: »

eh I was talking about the cable ties there sorry

its ok Aoife, i forgive you!

Mrs JackDaniels

johnny_knoxvile wrote: »

its ok Aoife, i forgive you!

I am truely overwhelemed by your forgiveness:P

Coriolanus

Mrs JackDaniels wrote: »

Don't know about other area's but in mine this year the cable ties are colour coded to the party for example the Fianna Fail cable ties are green. So if they are left on the lamp posts they are traced back to the party resulting in a hefty fine for them

Anyone know where I can get my hands on a couple thousand green cable ties?
Is it actually illegal to remove them and/or put your own up? Or is it some kind of speshul priveledge for our lords and masters.

OldGoat

It's incidious. There is a gradual increase in the number of posters so as to not shock the public with the vast numbers that we will soon have adorning the street furniture. In ones and twos they are steathly added to the poles. Yesterday, from my office I could see one poster. Now a second has joined it. Meanwhile another two posters have appeared on the lampost directly across the road.
In the gustulating wind we have today two of the posters have slipped down the pole and are twirling around with the grace of an overweight dancer and are causing an obstruction to pedestrians. Do I have the right, nay the moral obligation, to remove them now or should I simply resume watching and enjoying the chaos they are causing?

Mrs JackDaniels

Nevore wrote: »

Anyone know where I can get my hands on a couple thousand green cable ties?
Is it actually illegal to remove them and/or put your own up? Or is it some kind of speshul priveledge for our lords and masters.

Actually FF have the least amount of posters in my area, SF don't seem to have any and FG have the most by far they are really going for it this year the dicks

johnny_knoxvile

Well my car was nearly struck by one of those big posters that blew down as i was driving to work today.

Imagine the fright i got when i looked left to see a huge politicians head coming towards me at speed. Lucky it just missed the car though.

Mr.Lizard

johnny_knoxvile wrote: »

Well my car was nearly struck by one of those big posters that blew down as i was driving to work today.

Imagine the fright i got when i looked left to see a huge politicians head coming towards me at speed. Lucky it just missed the car though.

The same would not be true however had it been an actual politican.

Coriolanus

Mrs JackDaniels wrote: »

Actually FF have the least amount of posters in my area, SF don't seem to have any and FG have the most by far they are really going for it this year the dicks

Yeah but by putting up bunches of extra ones I can bankrupt them! Mwah haha etc. *cough*

johnny_knoxvile

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

The same would not be true however had it been an actual politican.

well at least Mary Harney has a low centre of gravity, no chance of her taking off in a gale force wind.

connundrum

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

Is it against the law to vandalise election posters? I'm going to presume for the purpose of my entertainment this evening that it is not.

Not if the poster is on the ground, thanks to the work of a certain caped crusader.

fun4a11

As much it is an eye sore for you I have to put up them bloody election posters, its not fun at all getting covered in tar and trying to get the ties on tight so they dont fall down but the best thing about is........in about a month I will be talking them down again and trying to remember where they all are is a bit of a bítch.

OldGoat

Hya fun4all.
So are you paid to erect & take down* the posters or are you a party volunteer?
Are you given any specific instructions for putting them up such as the minimum height you can put them?



*"Erect and take down". Seems wrong. What is the opposite to erect? De-erect? Limp? Erect and flacid the posters?

Fiend-Foe

I hate the feckers.

I caught one in the side of the head during a gale force wind.

The thing was spinning sideways through the air and was pretty sharp and flying fast, gave me a really bad gash and a huge lump, if it had of been my eye or my face it would have been nasty.

Didn't even see his face so I could sue him, he just blew away off around the corner to kill someone else.

rubadub

fun4a11 wrote: »

I have to put up them bloody election posters

What guidelines are you given? Do you trim back the cable ties?

Dun Laoghaire Rathdown have advised all parties that (among other things);

Quote:
There should be a minimum clearance of 2.5 metres (8ft)
from the lower edge of any poster to ground level and no posters should be placed higher than 6.5 metres (20ft) from the ground.

and

Quote:
Election posters that do not comply with these conditions or that are erected on Council property prior to the declaration of an election will be removed by the Council. In the event of a breach of the Litter Pollution Act, 1997 prosecutions may be initiated.

I would say 90% of posters I see are below 2.5m so they should be prosecuted in that area.

Shay Brennan (and I hold him personally responsible) has a poster on leopardstown road obstructing a cycletrack, which people are legally obliged to cycle on. There is a sign post near the N11 junction with 2 poles, these poles are on the cycletrack and are already dangerous enough. i.e. the poles are closer together than the width of the cycletrack, now there is his poster, about 0.3m off the ground, further obstructing it.

I have been cycling at ~40kph and been struck in the face by cable ties, many are at eye level left over from elections. If they do have to cut the cable ties to get a poster down they are often left on the cycletracks which again is extremely dangerous at high speed on narrow tyres.

Labour have little red signs on the N11, these are definitely designed with the intent to look like road signs. Its a disgrace, they are small square signs and put at an angle, i.e. like a diamond, just red & white. They look nothing like other posters and are certainly distracting.


http://www.dlrcoco.ie/Meetings/2009/DDHWWEDCEC/MAR09.htm

Guidelines Relating to the Display of Election Poster:

1. Election posters should only be erected after an election has been declared and a polling date determined.

2. In accordance with the Litter Pollution Act 1997 election posters and ties must be removed within 7 days after polling date. Failure to do so may result in prosecution. The associated fixing arrangement particularly plastic ties must be removed at the same time the poster is being removed.

3. No adhesive or metal fixings are permitted.

4. All posters should be manufactured from cardboard composites or other recyclable materials.

5. The Party or individual responsible for the poster must be clearly indicated on the poster.

6. Posters must not be erected as follows:

a. on lamp standards with overhead line electricity feed,

b. on traffic signal poles,

c. on bridge parapets, overpasses and on pedestrian bridges

d. on roadside traffic barriers

e. on traffic poles or statutory signage of any type including stop, yield, cycletrack, parking control, etc.

f. on Motorways

g. must not obstruct the view of traffic lights or road signs,

h. must not block or obstruct motorists view of pedestrians, i.e. pedestrian barriers, or railings.

7. There should be a minimum clearance of 2.5 metres (8ft) from the lower edge of any poster to ground level and no posters should be placed higher than 6.5 metres (20ft) from the ground.

8. A maximum of two posters per candidate is permitted on any lamp or standard pole.

9. Political parties/independent candidates are reminded that no claims for damages arising from placing, displaying or removal of their posters will lie with the Council and they may consider it appropriate to take out Public Liability Insurance in this regard.

Election posters that do not comply with these conditions or that are erected on Council property prior to the declaration of an election will be removed by the Council. In the event of a breach of the Litter Pollution Act, 1997 prosecutions may be initiated.

After a brief discussion during which John Guckian answered Members queries, the Councillors requested that the Manager examine the possibility of implementing a scheme similar to Dublin City Council’s system whereby posters are removed at a cost to the parties. J. Guckian AGREED to come back to the Members with a report on the feasibility of this scheme in Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown.

I would say the majority are litter, hope they prosecute them.

ShooterSF

KingLoser wrote: »

worserest?!

It's a perfectly cromulent word.

Captain-America

OldGoat wrote: »

If the posters are deemed to be litter 7 days AFTER the election then shouldn't they be concidered litter any more then 7 days BEFORE the election too?

Citizens Information wrote: »

The law in Ireland forbids the putting up of posters/signs on poles or other structures in public places unless you have the written permission of the owner of the pole or other structure in advance of putting up the posters/signs. There are no rules in place regarding how far in advance of a local election that posters and signs can be erected. However, local authorities have the power to introduce bye-laws if they so choose to set down when promotional material can be erected. Local authorities also have the power to remove these items should they disintegrate or cause a litter nuisance.

There you go.

OldGoat

Captain-America wrote: »

There you go.

However, local authorities have the power to introduce bye-laws

Thanks Cptn. I've already requested a copy of any bye-laws from the local authority (DCC in my case).
I might try to 'reserve' the lampost outside my house for the next election bye getting permission to post my own flyers so that the politicos can't use it, just for my own amusment.

Panda

snubbleste wrote: »

I hope some enterprising spray cans and artistic talent pay a visit to some of those mugs staring down from every lamp post and make them easier on the eye

They need to be moustacioed ASAP.

Moustaches for all!

A couple of years ago myself and a mate were on the way back from the pub and there was still election posters up months after the elections were over.
I was sick of looking at Beverley Cooper-Flynns and her double barrelled surname so i ripped the poster down.

Straight away a cop car speeds out of seemingly nowhere and theres me with the poster in my hand.
Thinking they'd give me a slap on the hand for some sort of public nuisance or something they pulled up beside us and roll down the window.
He put on his serious face and goes: "Are ya takin' Beverley home to bed with ya?"
then proceeded to burst out laughing and speed off again.

OldGoat

So, did ya? How was Beverly in the oul scratcher? Pics??

i57dwun4yb1pt8

ibarelycare wrote: »

When are the elections anyway? I heard on the radio that some guy in Cork put his posters up at the weekend because he got the dates wrong. He had to take them all down and put them all back up again yesterday or he would have been fined €150 per poster!

yep,

this is what we are voting for to run the country .

some plank who cant even get his own election date right .

we are truly fcuked

fun4a11

OldGoat wrote: »

Hya fun4all.
So are you paid to erect & take down the posters or are you a party volunteer?

No one I know gets paid to put up them election posters everyone is a volunteer.

I myself am not into politics but my uncle is a councillor so I am dragged into it.

OldGoat wrote: »

Are you given any specific instructions for putting them up such as the minimum height you can put them?

Not really we are given a map of the electric boundaries but we cant put any in private places such as car park of shopping centres.

As for height its more so done so that people cant reach them to rip them down.

Thing is the posters work out as €5 each and they are subsidised when you are with a party.

rubadub wrote: »

What guidelines are you given? Do you trim back the cable ties?

None really.

I dont trim back the cable ties as they just about fit the poll and if you see ones that have cable ties hanging out of them they have been doubled up so there would be 4 on one poster.

Also afaik they cable ties are not colour coded.

fun4a11

Also we are not allowed to put up any posters 50 metres from the entrance of a polling station.

OldGoat

I have a copy of DCC's guidlines for posters. It's very similar in most ways to the one Rubabub posted earlier so I'll not re-post it. (PM me if you really want a copy)
Apart from the posters that are below the allowed height the ones that are in clear contravention of the permits are the ones attached to the fencing on pedestrian crossings (Take THAT young Callely) and the ones plastered all over the pedestrian bridge in Fairview (Take THAT everyone else).

Complaints go to Dublin City Council, Roads & Traffic. 222 2251.

lostexpectation

is there any regualrions about people going up ladders etc in public places. insurance etc

OldGoat

Yes there is. The second point on the DCC statment is in relation to Health & Safety of the posters and working at height. And point 8 is public liability insurance.

2.
The Notice of Intent must include the following information:
a. All details set out in attached Appendix 1 – “Information to be included in Notice of Intent”
b. A statement that the requirements in attached Appendix 2 –“Health and Safety Requirements” - will be complied with and that all of the people involved in the erection or removal of posters have been briefed in relation to its contents and all other relevant Health and Safety issues.
SNIP
8.
Public Liability Insurance shall be provided or a payment of €100 shall be made to Dublin City Council for a calendar year for the provision of insurance cover. Local organisations are exempt from the €100 payment if no more than 40 A3 or smaller paper posters are erected in an area agreed by the area office of Dublin City Council.

SNIP
APPENDIX 2
HEALTH AND SAFETY INFORMATION SHEET
In relation to the erection and removal of posters/notices
The principal hazard associated with the erection of posters etc. is that of falling from a height. This commonly results in death or serious injury to the user of the elevated access work equipment and, in some cases, physical injury to those in the immediate vicinity. Most of these hazards arise from the following groups of hazards:
Incorrect specification,
poor maintenance,
electric shock,
manual handling injuries,
traffic hazards,
slips,
trips and falls,
falling objects /material.
Any person involved in the erection or removal of posters etc. on Dublin City Council property must be suitably trained and be fully competent working at heights.
An employer / person who requires the use of elevated access equipment, e.g. ladder, shall be responsible for the following:
-The correct selection, use and maintenance of the elevated access equipment they use
-That work at height is properly planned, appropriately supervised and carried out in a manner that is, so far as is reasonably practicable, safe and without risk to health.
-That work at height is carried out only when weather conditions do not jeopardise the safety and health of employees or other persons.
-That work is not carried out at height unless it is reasonably practicable to do so safely and without risk to health.
-Take suitable and sufficient measures to prevent an employee or other person falling a distance liable to cause personal injury.
-Take suitable and sufficient measures to prevent equipment, tools, materials or other objects falling a distance liable to cause injury to persons or damage to property.
-Provide appropriate training and instruction or take additional suitable and sufficient measures to prevent so far as is practicable any employee or an other person falling a distance liable to cause personal injury.
Any surface upon which a ladder rests shall be stable, firm, of sufficient strength and of suitable composition to support safely the ladder, so that the ladders rungs or steps and any loading intended to be placed on it remain horizontal.
A ladder shall be so positioned as to ensure its stability during use.