What do I do...tenants breaking lease.

thehotstepper

Yes I am a landlord don't shoot me...I always try to be fair with tenants but I am getting done here and am wondering if I can do anything. Student tenants of mine signed a lease last september and want to move out on june 6th however they signed a one year lease and I made it clear to them at the time I was taking a risk letting young students move in and I would have to get a guarantor to sign their lease aswell, and *that there would be no break clause on the one year fixed term. I did this as I knew with exams finishing in May they would be trying to move out then, and I wanted a one year lease.
They are not paying this months rent now knowing full well about losing their deposit. I'm stumped, apart from threatening PRTB action, they are registered.
Any ideas?

Paul S

Am I right thinking that a tenant has the right to break a lease at any point once they give a notiuce period relevant to that to of the frquency of payment of the lease.

For example if they pay monthly they can give one months notice and still be fully entitled to their deposit back.

Similar to contact law surrounding contracts of emplyment. You're free to leave at any point once you give adequate notice.

The_Conductor

thehotstepper wrote: »

Any ideas?

Take action against them via the PRTB. At very least it will stop them from pulling the same stunt on another landlord next year. In the current climate- its not going to be easy for you to get new tenants, there will probably be a vacant period- and when you do get new tenants, they will be probably at a considerably lower rent than the current crowd are willing to pay. The 2006 Residential Tenancies Act has provision to make costs payable against those who loose actions- the PRTB are there to enforce the act- you need to get the ball rolling immediately on this one.

S.

Sleipnir

Paul S wrote: »

Am I right thinking that a tenant has the right to break a lease at any point once they give a notiuce period relevant to that to of the frquency of payment of the lease.

No. Otherwise, what would be the point in having a "one year" lease? If the lease can be broken at any time?

Similar to contact law surrounding contracts of emplyment. You're free to leave at any point once you give adequate notice.

There is no fixed term on an ordinary employment contract, i.e. it is open-ended. A "one year" lease is not open-ended.

D3PO

Paul you are 100% incorrect.

A lease is a legally binding document. Unless there is a break clause in the lease these renters are fininacially tied to paying the rent for the duration of the lease.

if they arent paying up you have 2 choices.

1. Take them to court for recovery of the outstanding rent due up to the termination date in september

2. Chalk it up to experience and ensure you learn from your mistake.

Most renters are under the delusion that a months notice breaks the lease, and those that are in the know understand that rarely will a landlord go to the extremes of legal action therfore allowing them do what they like in terms of breaking the contract.

quozl

I hope you take action against them via the PRTB. I can't say how much good it'll do you, or how much hassle it'll be, hopefully someone with experience of doing it can guide you.

People need to honour their legal commitments. Landords, tenants, whoever.

The_Conductor

Paul S wrote: »

Am I right thinking that a tenant has the right to break a lease at any point once they give a notiuce period relevant to that to of the frquency of payment of the lease.

No- there are fixed notification periods for Part 4 tenancies (as specified in the 2006 Residential Tenancies Act), however once you sign a lease you are legally bound by that lease. You may vacate the property within the period of the lease- but you continue to be liable for the rent until the end of the lease. If the landlord rents the property out for a lesser amount than specified in the lease, or if the property is vacant for a period of time- the original holder of the lease is personally liable for the difference.

Paul S wrote: »

For example if they pay monthly they can give one months notice and still be fully entitled to their deposit back.

The deposit is to cover damage above normal wear and tear- nothing else. It is not allowable for either a tenant or a landlord to consider a deposit to be in lieu of rent, unless with the prior agreement of the other party. Terms of notice are as per the 2006 Residential Tenancies Act- but can be a lot longer than 1 calendar month.

Paul S wrote: »

Similar to contact law surrounding contracts of emplyment. You're free to leave at any point once you give adequate notice.

Not so- a fixed term contract will have stipulations attached to it- the breaking of which may leave the employee civilly liable to their employer. Once you sign a legally binding contract- you can be legally bound by the terms and conditions attached to that contract (whatever they may be). Landlords and employers are a lot more willing to chase people to enforce these terms and conditions these days than they were during the boom times.......

Paul S

Well................that told me then

Good to know - cheers lads

thehotstepper

Thanks for the replies. I'm just wondering if I should bypass the tenants themselves and go to the guarantor which is one of the parents. Best I can expect is them to pay their rent this month, move out next and hope the place isnt trashed as they'll know they're not getting the deposit back, as per the lease. Other than that it'll be the PRTB.

gibo_ie

Guys, i never understand how there can be so much confusion over breaking a lease. The tenants are entitled to break a lease in the following conditions (from PRTB) and it doesnt matter what lease you have with them.

"A tenant can terminate a Part 4 tenancy at any time and without reason, provided he or she gives the requisite notice and complies with the provisions for termination of a tenancy under the Act, which includes the service of a valid notice of termination."

BUT MOST IMPORTANT HERE:

"Similarly, a tenant can only terminate a fixed term tenancy where there the landlord has been in breach of his or her obligations.6 In addition however, where the landlord has refused consent to an assignment or sub-let, the tenant can also terminate the tenancy, in accordance with Section 186."

From: http://www.prtb.ie/DownloadDocs/Termination%20of%20FT.pdf

So technically speaking all they need to do is ask you as landlord if they can sublet and if you refuse they have a case for termination...

Xiney

As smccarrick said, take action against them via the PRTB. It may take a while, but they signed a legal contract and so did their guarantor.

The_Conductor

gibo_ie wrote: »

Guys, i never understand how there can be so much confusion over breaking a lease. The tenants are entitled to break a lease in the following conditions (from PRTB) and it doesnt matter what lease you have with them.

"A tenant can terminate a Part 4 tenancy at any time and without reason, provided he or she gives the requisite notice and complies with the provisions for termination of a tenancy under the Act, which includes the service of a valid notice of termination."

BUT MOST IMPORTANT HERE:

"Similarly, a tenant can only terminate a fixed term tenancy where there the landlord has been in breach of his or her obligations.6 In addition however, where the landlord has refused consent to an assignment or sub-let, the tenant can also terminate the tenancy, in accordance with Section 186."

From: http://www.prtb.ie/DownloadDocs/Termination%20of%20FT.pdf

So technically speaking all they need to do is ask you as landlord if they can sublet and if you refuse they have a case for termination...

In the case of subletting- the tenants have to be satisfactory to the landlord (the Act is vague on this one). Simply asking to sublet and being refused is *not* considered to be sufficient grounds for enacting Section 186 of the Act.

OP- contact the PRTB- they are the body who will decide on an appropriate course of action. They have a bit of a backlog at the moment unfortunately- but its getting better.

gav86

We had a landlord one year in college who would take first month's rent,the last month's rent and a deposit that way you lost out if you broke your lease. Would be hard on the pocket in the first month

Imposter

This is why i can never understand 1 month deposits in Ireland! Over here you pay 3-months deposit for an unfurnished apartment. In Ireland you get one fully furnished and only a 1-month deposit!

The_Conductor

Imposter wrote: »

This is why i can never understand 1 month deposits in Ireland! Over here you pay 3-months deposit for an unfurnished apartment. In Ireland you get one fully furnished and only a 1-month deposit!

Its not spelt out anywhere what the deposit is- people are just used to 1 months rent in advance + 1 months rent as a deposit. There is absolutely nothing to stop a landlord requesting a much larger deposit- other than the fact that he'd have problems finding tenants willing to pay......

Calina

thehotstepper wrote: »

that there would be no break clause on the one year fixed term.

I'm a professional and I have been renting in Ireland for 10 years. There is no way I will sign a lease with anyone that refuses to include a break clause in the lease.

When I was a student 15 years ago, it was always possible to sign leases for the duration of the academic year.

What - do you consider - were the risks involved in renting to young students? Was it damage, or was it that they would not want to complete 1 year?

Ultimately, they can request permission to assign the lease and it is at your discretion whether you grant that or not. However, if they are not paying out rent, I'd contact the guarantor and voice a wish to bring the matter to the attention of the PRTB.

miami2007

hi, i am in a similar situation......im a landlord, renting my house as my mum was made redundant and i moved home to help - anyway i have a one year lease with my tenants but im not in the prtb. tenants have been in the house for 3 months and have given me 4 weeks notice.

do i have to give them their deposit back? i dont have anyone lined up to move in and it looks like the house may lie vacant for a month (hopefully no more!) and they did sign a years lease after all...

The_Conductor

miami2007 wrote: »

hi, i am in a similar situation......im a landlord, renting my house as my mum was made redundant and i moved home to help - anyway i have a one year lease with my tenants but im not in the prtb. tenants have been in the house for 3 months and have given me 4 weeks notice.

do i have to give them their deposit back? i dont have anyone lined up to move in and it looks like the house may lie vacant for a month (hopefully no more!) and they did sign a years lease after all...

By not registering the lease with the PRTB, you don't have a leg to stand on to be honest. If the tenants were to dispute anything with the PRTB- and they found you non-compliant- its an automatic fine for you, and if you're subsequently found to not be tax compliant you'd be up the creek.

Even at this late stage I'd register the tenancy- it was stupid not to do so from the outset.

Re: keeping deposit- thats a no-no. The deposit is specifically to cover damage over and above normal wear and tear. Nothing else whatsoever. You have no right to withold the deposit from them for any reason other than damage to the property.

Tea_Bag

This site deals with the rights of holders of Part 4 Tenancies when it comes to leasing

http://www.threshold.ie/menu.asp?menu=96

The length of notice given by a tenant depends on how long the tenant has lived in the property. The longer the tenancy, the longer the notice period. Please note the notice periods provided in the Residential Tenancies Act as laid out in the Table below.

Duration of tenancy Notice by tenant
Less than 6 months: 28 days
6 or more months but less than 1 year: 35 days
1 year or more but less than 2 years: 42 days
2 or more years: 56 days

http://www.threshold.ie/page.asp?menu=70&page=256

Moral of the story either way, know your rights, be it Landlord or Tenant

Xiney

smccarrick wrote: »

By not registering the lease with the PRTB, you don't have a leg to stand on to be honest. If the tenants were to dispute anything with the PRTB- and they found you non-compliant- its an automatic fine for you, and if you're subsequently found to not be tax compliant you'd be up the creek.

Even at this late stage I'd register the tenancy- it was stupid not to do so from the outset.

Re: keeping deposit- thats a no-no. The deposit is specifically to cover damage over and above normal wear and tear. Nothing else whatsoever. You have no right to withold the deposit from them for any reason other than damage to the property.

well, it's for arrears in rent as well, which technically, if they move out without paying the full rent laid out in the 12 month lease, they are in arrears.

Still, not registering with the PRTB is a bad move.

astrofool

Tea_Bag wrote: »

This site deals with EVERYONE'S rights when it comes to leasing etc.

http://www.threshold.ie/menu.asp?menu=96



http://www.threshold.ie/page.asp?menu=70&page=256

Moral of the story either way, know your rights, be it Landlord or Tennant

That's only for a part 4 (open ended) tenancy, most leases are fixed term, and those rules don't apply. Threshold should really make it clearer, as the website, by spreading disinformation, causes more confusion and pain for landlord and tenant alike.

quozl

astrofool wrote: »

That's only for a part 4 (open ended) tenancy, most leases are fixed term, and those rules don't apply. Threshold should really make it clearer, as the website, by spreading disinformation, causes more confusion and pain for landlord and tenant alike.

Can people please take note of this. I keep seeing people post part 4 lease information as if it applies to non part-4 leases.

It's lazy disinformation.

sharpsuit

Cut and paste from that Threshold link:

What happens if there is a fixed term lease in place?
A tenant cannot avail of the notice periods where they are bound by a fixed term lease which they signed. They can, however, end the tenancy where the landlord is in breach of an obligation and where they have written to the landlord regarding the breach and giving the landlord an opportunity to rectify the position.

A tenant can also avail of section 186 of the Residential Tenancies Act to end a fixed term lease where the landlord refuses their wish to assign the lease to somebody else.

If a tenant wants to end of fixed-term tenancy early, they should inform the landlord in writing of their wish to assign or sublet the lease. Where the landlord refuses to give his or her consent, the tenant is entitled to serve a Notice of Termination.

The length of notice is determined by duration of the tenancy (see the Table above) and the Notice should correspond to the example Notice of Termination provided above.

The tenant is entitled to the return of their deposit if they take these steps.

Tea_Bag

astrofool wrote: »

That's only for a part 4 (open ended) tenancy, most leases are fixed term, and those rules don't apply. Threshold should really make it clearer, as the website, by spreading disinformation, causes more confusion and pain for landlord and tenant alike.

Ah note taken thanks

quozl wrote: »

Can people please take note of this. I keep seeing people post part 4 lease information as if it applies to non part-4 leases.

It's lazy disinformation.

Appologies