Are ghosts real?

DiarmaidGNR

Simple question. In my opinion they are not, but those of you that say yes,- give me actual proof.
A lot of the people I ask say yes without having proof, and when I ask why, they just say - "because I do", or start telling me a story that someone else told them, a story that is subtly sensationalized each time it is told, in a kind of "chinese whispers" manner. If they were real, wouldn't we see them all the time everywhere?!
In my opinion, people only believe in ghosts because of religion, paranoia, naivity, coincidence and or stupidity.

getz

DiarmaidGNR wrote: »

Simple question. In my opinion they are not, but those of you that say yes,- give me actual proof.
A lot of the people I ask say yes without having proof, and when I ask why, they just say - "because I do", or start telling me a story that someone else told them, a story that is subtly sensationalized each time it is told, in a kind of "chinese whispers" manner. If they were real, wouldn't we see them all the time everywhere?!
In my opinion, people only believe in ghosts because of religion, paranoia, naivity, coincidence and or stupidity.

some people say they do not believe in ghosts because they have never seen them ,yet they believe in god and never seen him or her

DiarmaidGNR

Very good point! I can't understand why people still believe in god and religion in this day and age! It defies logic!

dlofnep

no

Joe1919

There are (imo) at least two rational explanations for ghosts or spirits. The first is connected with the 'Association of Ideas' and was proposed by John Locke in the 1680s. We associate certain people or events with certain places. A re-visit to that place floods our mind with past memories and fantasies. In this way, a place can be said to be 'haunted' with past ghosts. These fantasies and memories are very real and can have real effects on those who experience them. http://enlightenment.supersaturated.com/johnlocke/BOOKIIChapterXXXIII.html

The second way was proposed by Hegel in his 'Phenomenology of Spirit'. As conscious humans, 'spirit' (ideas) exists in our intellect as 'pure spirit'(ideas). These spirits or ideas have as yet no power. However, at a later stage, these ideas can become incarnated or made flesh i.e. We act on these ideas and these ideas become real.
"758. At a certain favourable moment in history the belief arises (note stress on belief rather than event) that absolute Spirit has taken on actual, sensuous form. God is taken to exist before the yearning, conscious mind, and not to be merely a projection of it. And God is believed to exist as an individual self-consciousness."
What starts of as a (spirit) fantasy can take hold of the minds of men and when acted upon becomes real. God then is quite real for Hegel. His existence is in the consciousness of men and his universal power is real through the religious action of men, acting in belief. http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/help/findlay5.htm

In these two ways then, ghosts can be said to be real and can act and be a cause of action.

DiarmaidGNR

Joe1919 wrote: »

There are (imo) at least two rational explanations for ghosts or spirits. The first is connected with the 'Association of Ideas' and was proposed by John Locke in the 1680s. We associate certain people or events with certain places. A re-visit to that place floods our mind with past memories and fantasies. In this way, a place can be said to be 'haunted' with past ghosts. These fantasies and memories are very real and can have real effects on those who experience them. http://enlightenment.supersaturated.com/johnlocke/BOOKIIChapterXXXIII.html

The second way was proposed by Hegel in his 'Phenomenology of Spirit'. As conscious humans, 'spirit' (ideas) exists in our intellect as 'pure spirit'(ideas). These spirits or ideas have as yet no power. However, at a later stage, these ideas can become incarnated or made flesh i.e. We act on these ideas and these ideas become real.
"758. At a certain favourable moment in history the belief arises (note stress on belief rather than event) that absolute Spirit has taken on actual, sensuous form. God is taken to exist before the yearning, conscious mind, and not to be merely a projection of it. And God is believed to exist as an individual self-consciousness."
What starts of as a (spirit) fantasy can take hold of the minds of men and when acted upon becomes real. God then is quite real for Hegel. His existence is in the consciousness of men and his universal power is real through the religious action of men, acting in belief. http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/help/findlay5.htm

In these two ways then, ghost can be said to be real and can act and be a cause of action.

Hahahahhahahahhahahahahahahahhaha!!!!!!!!

OneArt

In my opinion they are, but only because I've seen a couple. I'm the kind of person who has to see something to believe it.

Aside from photos (many of which are fakes anyway) no one here will be able offer you proof. If you're looking for actual proof, go visit a medium/haunted space/whatever and see for yourself.

If you're just looking to stir up an interesting thread, ignore my post and continue .

DiarmaidGNR

OneArt wrote: »

In my opinion they are, but only because I've seen a couple. I'm the kind of person who has to see something to believe it.

Aside from photos (many of which are fakes anyway) no one here will be able offer you proof. If you're looking for actual proof, go visit a medium/haunted space/whatever and see for yourself.

If you're just looking to stir up an interesting thread, ignore my post and continue .

Hahahahha! ....medium.

feaven

DiarmaidGNR wrote: »

Hahahahha! ....medium.

Hahahahaha! ....Terrible way to respond to someone's post.

dlofnep

Not really considering mediums are laughable.

nyarlothothep

Joe1919 wrote: »

There are (imo) at least two rational explanations for ghosts or spirits. The first is connected with the 'Association of Ideas' and was proposed by John Locke in the 1680s. We associate certain people or events with certain places. A re-visit to that place floods our mind with past memories and fantasies. In this way, a place can be said to be 'haunted' with past ghosts. These fantasies and memories are very real and can have real effects on those who experience them. http://enlightenment.supersaturated.com/johnlocke/BOOKIIChapterXXXIII.html

The second way was proposed by Hegel in his 'Phenomenology of Spirit'. As conscious humans, 'spirit' (ideas) exists in our intellect as 'pure spirit'(ideas). These spirits or ideas have as yet no power. However, at a later stage, these ideas can become incarnated or made flesh i.e. We act on these ideas and these ideas become real.
"758. At a certain favourable moment in history the belief arises (note stress on belief rather than event) that absolute Spirit has taken on actual, sensuous form. God is taken to exist before the yearning, conscious mind, and not to be merely a projection of it. And God is believed to exist as an individual self-consciousness."
What starts of as a (spirit) fantasy can take hold of the minds of men and when acted upon becomes real. God then is quite real for Hegel. His existence is in the consciousness of men and his universal power is real through the religious action of men, acting in belief. http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/help/findlay5.htm

In these two ways then, ghosts can be said to be real and can act and be a cause of action.

I heard that our past selves exist but we can't perceive them due to the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Its interesting though, what is past cannot be undone, it will always be, though as history.

orestes

DiarmaidGNR wrote: »

Hahahahhahahahhahahahahahahahhaha!!!!!!!!

Warning infraction issued

Please keep the thread on topic folks and debate the subject rationally and maturely.

DiarmaidGNR

dlofnep wrote: »

Not really considering mediums are laughable.

Thank you!

DiarmaidGNR

nyarlothothep wrote: »

I heard that our past selves exist but we can't perceive them due to the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Its interesting though, what is past cannot be undone, it will always be, though as history.

You are mistaken, the 2nd law of thermodynamics has nothing to do with this topic, and to mention physics, and science in general, in the same sentence as the phrase "our past selves" is very insulting to all the real scientists who have spent their lives furthering the developement of science, and the human race.
Obviously, humans have a natural tendency to question, but when people start making up answers based on nothing at all, - it bothers me.

orestes

DiarmaidGNR wrote: »

You are mistaken, the 2nd law of thermodynamics has nothing to do with this topic, and to mention physics, and science in general, in the same sentence as the phrase "our past selves" is very insulting to all the real scientists who have spent their lives furthering the developement of science, and the human race.
Obviously, humans have a natural tendency to question, but when people start making up answers based on nothing at all, - it bothers me.

People starting discussion topics when they already have a firm opinion on the subject with the intention of mocking others who post an opposing point of view is trolling - it bothers me.

Take a couple of days off from this forum to think about doing that in future.

Banned, thread closed.