Irish DPM Vest on Ehobby Asia??

Fyr.Fytr

Just me or does that look like irish dpm pattern??

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/combat-gears/vests/body-armors-replica/ea-gear-warrior-body-armor-sapi-replica-vest.html

NakedDex

Looks closer to the French CCE pattern. The Irish pattern is a tad more ragged in it's patchwork and a bit darker. Though when you put Irish and French beside each other there's sod all in the difference apart from French being a touch lighter in shade.

Incidentally, I'm getting rather sick of having to wait so bloody long for an ehobby page to open. It's like being on 28k dial-up again.

Fyr.Fytr

NakedDex wrote: »

Incidentally, I'm getting rather sick of having to wait so bloody long for an ehobby page to open. It's like being on 28k dial-up again.

Yea very slow alright

bullets

Thought it was just me with the ehobby page being slow.

With regards to the Irish current DPM pattern.
If there is a shop making copies of the Irish DPM pattern
or very close to the pattern are we allowed wear it legal wise ?


~B

NakedDex

Vests, pouches, bags and hats etc don't count as part of the issued uniform so they're available for sale. In fact, Protac.ie does a fairly decent range of Irish DPM MOLLE and LBV gear for general sale, as well as backpacks, webbing and headgear.

thermo

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

Just me or does that look like irish dpm pattern??

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/combat-gears/vests/body-armors-replica/ea-gear-warrior-body-armor-sapi-replica-vest.html

its not just you its close,,,, nearly right colouring, just wrong shapes!

Masada

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

Just me or does that look like irish dpm pattern??

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/combat-gears/vests/body-armors-replica/ea-gear-warrior-body-armor-sapi-replica-vest.html

Thats not Irish, not friench either actually, its just similar colours. the shapes are all different.

bullets wrote: »

Thought it was just me with the ehobby page being slow.

With regards to the Irish current DPM pattern.
If there is a shop making copies of the Irish DPM pattern
or very close to the pattern are we allowed wear it legal wise ?


~B

Yep, to be the best of my knowledge on the Irish DPM issue, the legislation in place refers to the use of it outside of duty by a serving member. basically meaning if your a member of the DF don't wear it unless your on duty. this doesn't apply to a civilian though. or anyone who wasnt actually isssued the gear. if you obtained it from ebay or a charity shop for instance you can wear it legally.
then comes the question of it being property of the minister of defense, but you can't be in possession of stolen property without it being actually reported stolen, that would require the DF/DoD to report it stolen and for them to be able to say with absolute certainty that it belonged to them. which that cant really do with any certainty can they? since its only a pattern on cloth.

Thats just my understanding of the law regarding it, no doubt if you did wear it you will find some people taking exception to it and you would probably still get in a spot of bother so its probably not worth it.:)

Rew

bullets wrote: »

Thought it was just me with the ehobby page being slow.

With regards to the Irish current DPM pattern.
If there is a shop making copies of the Irish DPM pattern
or very close to the pattern are we allowed wear it legal wise ?

We all know Protac make webbing and a few other bits but no one makes the uniform. Also the law as I remember it says that even if your not wearing the genuine article but you are trying to look like the genuine (IE trying to look like an Irish soldier) that you are breaking it.

My own opinion is that the Army are OK with the current situation regarding Airsoft but if teams of guys wearing the gear carrying Styers start cropping up they will start to take notice.

Rew

Masada wrote: »

Yep, to be the best of my knowledge on the Irish DPM issue, the legislation in place refers to the use of it outside of duty by a serving member. basically meaning if your a member of the DF don't wear it unless your on duty. this doesn't apply to a civilian though. or anyone who wasnt actually isssued the gear. if you obtained it from ebay or a charity shop for instance you can wear it legally.
then comes the question of it being property of the minister of defense, but you can't be in possession of stolen property without it being actually reported stolen, that would require the DF/DoD to report it stolen and for them to be able to say with absolute certainty that it belonged to them. which that cant really do with any certainty can they? since its only a pattern on cloth.

There is military law that covers military personnel and civil law that covers everyone. there is a section of civil law that covers this. the theft issue is a separate one. They can of course say its there's as no one else producers they stuff, same applies to Garda uniform.

I'm crap with digging out legislation but I have seen it produced in the past.

Thats just my understanding of the law regarding it, no doubt if you did wear it you will find some people taking exception to it and you would probably still get in a spot of bother so its probably not worth it.:)

Yeah that guy in the charity climb thread is lucky he hasn't met grumpy RM in person.

Personally I don't think anyone should be wearing rank markings, unit markings, berets or giving them self's rank.

Rew

Here you go:

Defence Act Section 264 wrote:

264.—(1) If any person (not being a member of the Defence Forces) wears, without permission granted by or on behalf of the Minister, any uniform of the Defence Forces or any colourable imitation thereof, such person shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding ten pounds or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding three months.

(2) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply in respect of the wearing of any uniform of the Defence Forces or any colourable imitation thereof in the course of a stage play or other dramatic representation or performance.

(3) In this section the word "uniform" includes any distinctive part of a uniform.

There is actually quite a bit of law in this area covering the uniform and badges/insignia now that I figured out how to use http://www.irishstatutebook.ie

Rew

Law regarding purchasing the gear:

[GA] Penalty for purchasing certain military property.
260.—(1) In this section, the expression "military property" means any property being—

( a ) any arms, ammunition (including bombs, grenades or similar missiles), equipment, instruments or clothing issued for the use of members of the Defence Forces, or

( b ) any military decoration of a member of the Defence Forces, or

( c ) any furniture, bedding, blankets, sheets, utensils or stores in military charge, or

( d ) any provisions or forage issued for the use of a member of the Defence Forces or his horse, or

( e ) any horse or vehicle employed in the service of the Defence Forces.

(2) ( a ) If any person—

(i) buys, exchanges, takes in pawn, obtains or receives from any person, on any pretence whatsoever, any military property, or

(ii) solicits or entices any person to sell, exchange, pawn or give away any military property, or

(iii) assists or acts for any person in selling, exchanging, pawning or making away with any military property,

such person shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding twenty pounds together with treble the value of any military property of which he has become possessed by means of the offence or, at the discretion, of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding six months or to both such fine and imprisonment.

( b ) Where a person is charged with an offence under this section it shall be a good defence to prove that—

(i) at the time he did the act alleged in the charge, he was unaware that the property in respect of which the charge was made was in fact military property, or

(ii) the said property was sold by order or with the consent of the Minister or some competent military authority, or

(iii) the said property was the personal property of a person who had ceased to be a member of the Defence Forces or of the legal personal representatives of a deceased member of the Defence Forces.

(3) Where any military property is found in the possession or keeping of any person, such person may be brought or summoned before a Justice of the District Court, and if such Justice has reasonable ground to believe that the military property so found was stolen, or was bought, exchanged, taken in pawn, obtained or received in contravention of this section, then, if such person does not satisfy such Justice that he came by the military property so found lawfully and without any contravention of this Act, he shall be liable on summary conviction to the same penalties as are specified in subsection (2) of this section in the case of a contravention of that subsection.

(4) A person found committing an offence under this section may be arrested without warrant, and brought, together with the military property which is the subject of the offence, before a Justice of the District Court, and any person to whom any such property is offered to be sold, pawned or delivered, who has reasonable cause to suppose that the same is offered in contravention of this section, may arrest without warrant the person offering such military property and deliver him and such military property into the custody of a member of the Garda Síochána to be dealt with according to law.

(5) A Justice of the District Court, if satisfied on oath that there is reasonable cause to suspect that any person has in his possession or on his premises any military property on or with respect to which any offence in this section mentioned has been committed, may grant a warrant in search for such military property as in the case of stolen goods and any military property found on such search shall be seized by the person charged with the execution of such warrant, who shall bring the person in whose possession the same is found before some Justice of the District Court to be dealt with according to law.

(6) For the purposes of this section, military property shall be deemed to be in the possession or keeping of a person if he knowingly has it in the actual possession or keeping of any other person or in any house, building, lodging, apartment, field or place, open or enclosed, whether occupied by himself or not, and whether the same is so had for his own use or benefit or for the use or benefit of another.

Poccington

Masada wrote: »

Thats just my understanding of the law regarding it, no doubt if you did wear it you will find some people taking exception to it and you would probably still get in a spot of bother so its probably not worth it.:)

Your understanding is wrong, Rew is on the ball with the laws regarding it.

robbie brazel

hey i was just wondering y your not allowed were irish dpm wats the big deal with it

Witcher

robbie brazel wrote: »

hey i was just wondering y your not allowed were irish dpm wats the big deal with it

Because it's illegal.

Poccington

robbie brazel wrote: »

hey i was just wondering y your not allowed were irish dpm wats the big deal with it

Read Rew's posts in this thread and you'll find that which you seek.

mle1324

If we are not allowed to ware the Irish army uniform would it be alright to ware the british gear in terms of us been irish and not liking britian? because i like the look of the british camo and am just wondering if people will look down on me

The Master

Lots of people wear British DPM it's not a problem at all

mle1324

The Master wrote: »

Lots of people wear British DPM it's not a problem at all

oh didnt really take notice of that when i am playing on sites but who cares anyway we play airsoft for fun.

thanks

Rew

Brit DPM is sold surplus, Irish DPM isn't so thats why the Brit stuff is ok.

bullets

Originally Posted by Defence Act Section 264
(2) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply in respect of the wearing of any uniform of the Defence Forces or any colourable imitation thereof in the course of a stage play or other dramatic representation or performance.

Hmm Can airsoft be defined as
stage play or other dramatic representation or performance? If so this clause is an excemption to a civi.

For me I've no interest in the modern DPM,
If I had a load out theme it would be the old
issue Irish Army stuff the OD and as far as I can recall
it is OK to wear that stuff as it is not current issue,

~B

Poccington

bullets wrote: »

Hmm Can airsoft be defined as
stage play or other dramatic representation or performance? If so this clause is an excemption to a civi.

For me I've no interest in the modern DPM,
If I had a load out theme it would be the old
issue Irish Army stuff the OD and as far as I can recall
it is OK to wear that stuff as it is not current issue,

~B

I thought it was a sport?

bullets

Poccington wrote: »

I thought it was a sport?

Well... so far for me its a Hobby not a sport
as I've never played and only collect so I cant say I'm into airsoft as a sport. (That may all change this Saturday )

It could also be considered LARP live action role play.
As your pretending to play soldier.

Milsim which can be done with airsoft not sure if
that would be considered sport or re-enactment.

If you do the whole gamer thing and actually try
a themed event from a computer game you end up with
some weird hybrid sport/gamer/hobby/renactment mixed up
muddled up fun passtime.

~B

OzCam

Rew is bang on with the military aspects.

There's also another law which prohibits members of the public wearing any uniform in public which might give the impression that you're a member of the Garda Siochana or Defence Forces.

British DPM (aka Soldier95) is practical, cheap and very well suited for Ireland, so no-one cares about anyone using it for airsoft. And you can always say it's Dutch.

Rew

Well officially all the OD stuff was burnt by the Army when they changed to DPM. Brit OD stuff is available surplus.

Masada

OzCam wrote: »

Rew is bang on with the military aspects.

There's also another law which prohibits members of the public wearing any uniform in public which might give the impression that you're a member of the Garda Siochana or Defence Forces.

British DPM (aka Soldier95) is practical, cheap and very well suited for Ireland, so no-one cares about anyone using it for airsoft. And you can always say it's Dutch.

Your also overlooking the fact that it is also "technically" illegal to wear Brit DPM or other types of military camo, not really inforcable, but it's in the law.,
Well done on the legislation there Rew, while I don't disagree with you there is a lot in the paragraghs that are grey areas and could be argued both ways,.:)

iceage

With the amount of British DPM that is surplus and available in this country that is no longer a problem, its surplus. Some of it is total sh!te order though. There are also some really good copies available from good hunting shops.

I reckon the old Irish OD stuff is ok to use Bullets, you find it on any building site don't you?

OzCam

Masada wrote: »

Your also overlooking the fact that it is also "technically" illegal to wear Brit DPM or other types of military camo, not really inforcable, but it's in the law.,
...

That's what I said.

wearing any uniform in public which might give the impression that you're a member of the ... Defence Forces.

Good luck with telling a Garda "it's soldier 95 not Curragh Shamrock so go away." You might win in court, but it'll still spoil your day.

And there's also the further complication that to legally wear the uniform of any "foreign power" in public, you need written permission from the Department of Foreign Affairs.

The moral of the story is: keep it on the field. I think that's long enough off topic for me.

Rew

Masada wrote: »

Well done on the legislation there Rew, while I don't disagree with you there is a lot in the paragraghs that are grey areas and could be argued both ways,.:)

I duno, looks pretty sewn up. Thats the 1954 version, I believe all the penalties are updated in the later ones but I didn't rack through them all. Seems pretty clear to me that wearing it is a no no and buying /selling it is a no no. I think any argument around Airsoft being a theatrical production is quite funny but ultimatly quite weak.

+*EliteSniper*+

bullets wrote: »

Well... so far for me its a Hobby not a sport
as I've never played and only collect so I cant say I'm into airsoft as a sport. (That may all change this Saturday )

It could also be considered LARP live action role play.
As your pretending to play soldier.

Milsim which can be done with airsoft not sure if
that would be considered sport or re-enactment.

If you do the whole gamer thing and actually try
a themed event from a computer game you end up with
some weird hybrid sport/gamer/hobby/renactment mixed up
muddled up fun passtime.

~B

Whats happening this Saturday :cool:

thermo

the bottom line is if you have an irish camo uniform and you have not been issued it you are breaking the law, if your a serving member (PDF or rdf) and you wear it outside of duty you are in serious s**t when your caught, you will end yp on a charge!

iceage

Now I might just reading this all wrong, and please correct me if I am but did you just tell a serving member of the DF that he is talking out of his arse when it comes to what he does and doesn't know about certain items of kit? ......Must be reading that wrong.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Masada wrote: »

Yep, to be the best of my knowledge on the Irish DPM issue, the legislation in place refers to the use of it outside of duty by a serving member. basically meaning if your a member of the DF don't wear it unless your on duty. this doesn't apply to a civilian though. or anyone who wasnt actually isssued the gear. if you obtained it from ebay or a charity shop for instance you can wear it legally.
then comes the question of it being property of the minister of defense, but you can't be in possession of stolen property without it being actually reported stolen, that would require the DF/DoD to report it stolen and for them to be able to say with absolute certainty that it belonged to them. which that cant really do with any certainty can they? since its only a pattern on cloth.

For your information.

All our new ordnance is serial numbered and issued on an individual basis, the serial numbers are recorded and full traceable to not only the Defence Forces, or even the unit - but to the soldier who was issued with it.

Its all fully accountable.

.

arybvtcw0eolkf

thermo wrote: »

the bottom line is if you have an irish camo uniform and you have not been issued it you are breaking the law, if your a serving member (PDF or rdf) and you wear it outside of duty you are in serious s**t when your caught, you will end yp on a charge!
,,,,,

Rubbish.

In over 25yrs service I've never once heard of anyone being charged for wearing their working dress uniform off duty.

What is illegal for us is to wear part of the uniform, its a case of being properly or inproperly dressed, and that including coming and going from bks (home to work, and home again).

.

bullets

+*EliteSniper*+ wrote: »

Whats happening this Saturday :cool:

Skirmish site opening in Limerick :pac:

thermo

Leah Prickly Butler wrote: »

Rubbish.

In over 25yrs service I've never once heard of anyone being charged for wearing their working dress uniform off duty.

What is illegal for us is to wear part of the uniform, its a case of being properly or inproperly dressed, and that including coming and going from bks (home to work, and home again).

.

its not rubbish i know 2 individuals who have had diciplinary action taken for "inproper" use of the uniform!!

anyway this is a little off topic so this will be all im going to say on the matter!!!

The Master

Lads were way off topic at this stage.

The legislation is quite clear on this

A few comments deleted as they are giving a company unrelated to this topic a bad name

Closed