How do I put in a window ?

flynnboy

Hi

I have an old stone-built outbuilding and I want to put in a window.

When I have put in the opening how do I actually attach the window (PVC) to the opening ? Am I supposed to build in a wooden framework to attach it to or..... ? Are there other things I need to consider?

Thanks for any advice

FB

gsxr1

the common method it to screw metal straps to the outside edge of the frame and then fix to the block work.

You can also(depending on the window) remove the glass and drill fixings through the frame and into the block or stone.

Seal in with expanding foam and slab and plaster the reveals. If that can be done.

By the sounds of it you may need coloured silicon or slips of some sort .

flynnboy

Hi gsxr1Thanks for that.Bearing in mind it is an old stone wall and that I will not have any straight edges to attach to, do you have any other suggestions ?Should I for example knock out the opening and then shutter in concrete straight edges ?Thanks againFB

gsxr1

flynnboy wrote: »

Hi gsxr1Thanks for that.Bearing in mind it is an old stone wall and that I will not have any straight edges to attach to, do you have any other suggestions ?Should I for example knock out the opening and then shutter in concrete straight edges ?Thanks againFB

I think knocking anything like that could be tricky on any build, especially an old one. As the side stone could be supporting a head above. Which in turn could have lose stone on top . would need jacking. Not really A DIY job.

If you could trim the stone work with a consaw with out removing the stone you could be onto a winner.

How far of square is the window.

By the way. anything is possible.

ttm

Depending on how solid the wall is you could cut the hole with a disk cutter, if all else it might give you a nice edge to work off, but if its a rubble wall (earth and stone rough faced with stone and mortar) then be prepared for a rebuilding job, as it can all too easly come tumbling down from the inside out

Edit > Sorry gsxr1 you've just said most of that.

mickdw

Generally pvc window are fixed with small metal brackets (which attach to the pvc frame) which extend inwards from the window. This brackets are the then shot fixed or scre fixed into the solid wall. Now this is easy when dealing with a new build but fixing might not be so easy into old stonework, I would suggest using a long expanding fixing into the stonework. These should get a suitable grip.
To cover the metal fixings when finished, you could do a timber frame or render finish all depending on what type/standard of finish you are looking for. Im assumiing you are not skimming this outbuilding
A flexible seal would be needed between the frame and the stonework also.
You could straighten up the edges with a shutter but it wouldnt look unless you were planning to put a finshed plaster reveal around the finished window. That might be an option though.

hop2it

the best way to put a window in is with a brick


(ok i,ll leave now)

flynnboy

Hi guys

Thanks! I really appreciate your input here.

A couple of things worth mentioning. The finish is not that important i.e. it is important for it to fit tight and to be weatherproof etc but it is going to be my workshop and if the finish is 'rough' no problem. I am not after a professional dwelling house type finish.

The wall is only about 8' high so there is not going to be much stone to tumble down. Also, the top of the window is going to be pretty well close to the top of the wall because of the overall height of it. So - is there any reason why I should not just start to take the window opening down from immediately under the wall plate and then put a lintel in directly beneath the wall plate and then commence with the rest of the opening ?

Thanks again

FB

ttm

First thing to do is to find out more about the wall you are going to make a hole in.
If its about 2 foot thick then it will almost definitely be a rubble filled wall and not an easy job, on the other hand if the stonework is less than 18inchs thick theres a better chance its all stone and mortar so won't fall apart when you make the opening.
Best thing to do would be to very slowly drill a hole with a very long bit (say 13mm x 30cm but at least half the depth of the wall or more) and see what comes out. With many old walls once you are through the outer "skin" of "good" stone work you'll hit mud which is obvious as drilling is very easy sometimes you will start to drill through a stone in the middle of the wall and it will spin around in the wall then drop when you pull the bit out, again a bad sign that the wall is full of loose rubble. On the other hand this wall of yours could be granite with no voids and "rock" solid - that would be good apart from the extra effort needed to cut the hole.

ttm

Found a couple of links that might help. A new window opening in an old house, ignor the oak framing but you will need some form of lintel and take a look at how big the hole was. The I think this work on a door at the same house gives some idea of how to support the wall above the door (or window) while you put in a lintel below.

Edit> Sorry flynnboy - on a slow dial up so missed your replys so much of what I've said does not apply. Given that your up near the roof I think I would take out the wall from above down to the point where the lintel would be then put the lintel in before making the opening for the window itself. You might need to support the wall plate untill you've filled in above the lintel.

flynnboy

Hi ttm

Useful links, thanks. My wall is between 18" - 2'. Not sure if it is all solid or what but it looks fairly well constructed and so I would be surprised if it is a rubble infill. But you never know, good tip for the investigation of this.

What about the idea of starting from immediately beneath the wall plate - any reasons why not ?

cork1

when you fit the window into the open how much space have you around it?

flynnboy

Hi again guys

The height of my wall is 84"
My window dimensions are 43" x 59"

There are 2 options with the window, I can have it either 59" wide or 43" wide. If I have it 43" on the width and 59" deep then it does not leave me with much wall left between the bottom of the window and ground level - and that is if it starts beneath the wall plate.

So I am inclined to think about mounting the window with its width at 59" which will give me more wall depth left underneath the window bottom.

I am still inclined towards starting to remove the stone immediately beneath the wall-plate, banging in a lintel and then continue by removing the rest of the stone beneath the lintel.

No matter which way I mount the window the shortest distance from one edge of the window to the wall corner (where the gable wall starts) is 48" The length of wall from the other edge of the window will be in the order of 10' However I can if necessary put the window bang in the middle giving something in the order of 6-7' of wall either side of the window. I would rather have it to one side leaving 48" of wall at the shortest point.

For info' it is a pitched roof of corrugated sheet.

Any thoughts very gratefully received

Cheers

FB

flynnboy

BTW the wall is 19" thick

ttm

flynnboy wrote: »

Hi again guys

The height of my wall is 84"
My window dimensions are 43" x 59"

There are 2 options with the window, I can have it either 59" wide or 43" wide. If I have it 43" on the width and 59" deep then it does not leave me with much wall left between the bottom of the window and ground level - and that is if it starts beneath the wall plate.

So I am inclined to think about mounting the window with its width at 59" which will give me more wall depth left underneath the window bottom.

I am still inclined towards starting to remove the stone immediately beneath the wall-plate, banging in a lintel and then continue by removing the rest of the stone beneath the lintel.

No matter which way I mount the window the shortest distance from one edge of the window to the wall corner (where the gable wall starts) is 48" The length of wall from the other edge of the window will be in the order of 10' However I can if necessary put the window bang in the middle giving something in the order of 6-7' of wall either side of the window. I would rather have it to one side leaving 48" of wall at the shortest point.

For info' it is a pitched roof of corrugated sheet.

Any thoughts very gratefully received

Cheers

FB

So no massive weight to support and not too thick a wall. Only reason to start at the top and put the lintel in first would be to try to stop the opening for the window getting too large when you start to knock the stone out. The lintel "might" hold the side a bit firmer and stop stone just falling out. I'd definitely try a con saw (disk cutter) and make as deep a cuts as I could before taking any stone out, again it might or might not help as you won't be able to cut all the way through the stones so bashing them might bring out more stone. I think I'd cut a good line into the stone as deep as I could pull out loose stone from the middle and then you an SDS drill with a 10mm bit (good quality one) and drill holes just inside the disk cut edge to help cut any bigger stones (holes about 20mm apart). Unless you just want to smash out a big whole and make good afterwards. Really depends how you like to work . I'd be very cautious until I new what exactly I was hacking away at and how well it held together. Also don't forget that you may need to support the wall plate untill you have the lintel in, to be honest you should support it anyway wit a couple of acrows just in case.

flynnboy

Okay ttm

That all sounds reasonable. So as I understand it there is no great taboo against working down from the wall-plate - true? That was my big concern. I couldn't really see why not as long as everything is supported properly but then I am not a builder and you never know....

Would you agree that it would be best to put the window in with the longer side as its width ?

Thanks a million

FB

ttm

Put the Wiindow in with the longer side across the wall by all means but thats a 5ft wide gap so you need a lintel of some form that will support the roof. I'm not a builder but I can't see what building regulations would apply here so its down to common sense. I'd be tempted to get a nice big fat peice of OAK for a lintel (or say 2 9x9inch) perhaps put it right under the wall plate if I could make a good clean job of the sides it would look nice. Your next problem is how to line the sides of the opening? Rubble walls can be good in this respect as often so much falls out you can fill the core with block work which supports the lintel and then try your hand at random stonework on the outside, but I'd guess you might just be shuttering it all off and using concrete, if you do you can also cast your own lintel in situ.

Going back to the wall plate I'd make a hole or holes (probably 2) to take support timbers and get the acrows in before I did anything else. I've done this sort of thing and its often one of two stories either the wall just falls to bits and your glad of the support or the wall is so solid you bash away at it and only realise you need to support whats above when the whole gets too big and its toooo late. A mate had a black and decker workmate he was stood on doing a similar job and a stone came out he couldn't hold as it was so big he managed to jump and the workmate ended up virtually flatened. So thinking about it working down from the wall plate should give you more control and be a bit safer than working from the middle and have stone fall on you. Tip as given in the previous links move the stone well out the way as you go along, I'd put it straight in a barrow as its makes it alot easier to work and saves double or tripple handling, but then I spend more time cleaning up than working

flynnboy

More good advice ttm

I had thought about maybe using a railway sleeper for the lintel. Any thoughts about that ? I'll decide upon which way to put the window in when I get down to more precise calculations. I'd prefer the narrower side as the width, but I don't want it reaching the floor.

In any event I need a stretch of good weather.... could be waiting a while yet:rolleyes:

Thanks again

FB

ttm

Railway sleeper would be very venacular also ideal. Just be careful when you cut it that there are no stones in it to damage a saw blade.

mickdw

I thought this thread was about actually fitting a window to an exiting opening. With a 19" wall, it would be relatively safe to start picking away at the wall from the top down. You will get a feel for how stable it is. Have a couple of supports just in case.

flynnboy

Just a thought about the supports...... can't quite get my head around this one but it'll be fairly obvious to you guys as you have done it before.

If I put say 2 props through beneath the wall-plate and they are in the area that the lintel is going to be, then I will have to remove them to put the lintel in which seems to make a nonsense of having put them there in the first place? On the other hand if I position them at either extreme of the length of the lintel so that I can pull out the stone to get a lintel in then they wouldn't really be offering any support to the wall -plate that way ??

Do I simply get the supports out from under and ram the lintel in as quickly as possible ? I can understand it if you are propping something above the props and taking out from underneath. Do you get my drift ?

ttm

You do have a point about the supports. If the railway sleeper is going directly under the wall plate then you can't support the wall plate from below and put in the railway sleeper in place without removing the supports.

Normally you'd have something like a layer of brick or concrete above the lintel that you could put inplace to take the load before removing the supports.

How thick is the wall plate? If its thick you might be able to find another way of supporting it other than directly from below or perhaps you can support the roof truss that it supports so you don't need to support it directly. Those links have a couple of pointers, on the windows you'll see the guy supported the beam that was running into the window opening so he only needed one acrow prop.

flynnboy

That's grand ttm. I get your drift. I've been thinking about it of course and I think I have a way around it. And fortunately there are not in fact a great deal of stresses and strains involved here - it's not a great heavy roof or anything. The rafters of both pitches are well tied to each other by cross members and so well supported. Having said that it is enough to make a mess and a big job if it did come down so I'm not taking chances :eek:

I think I am going to err on the side of caution and put the window in shortest dimension for the width - it doesn't really matter if it almost goes to the floor at the end of the day.

All I need now is some decent weather for a week or so.

Thanks for all of your help, much appreciated everyone.

FB

ttm

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

btw if its old corrugated iron then it could be heavier than you think. I've got a load of galvanised corrugated iron for a roof here and its the thickest I could get but nothing like the weight of some of the old stuff I'm hoping to replace.

flynnboy

Cheers ttm thank you very much for all of your input. I'll try and remember to report back on the job.

FB