Action/practical shooting in Ireland.

mayhem#

Just wondering what the status of "action"/practical shooting shooting for handgun or shotgun in Ireland is.
Is it done? Where? What are the regulations etc...

E.

Rew

All practical pistol has ceased in the Republic, there are threads here about it ill see if I can dig up the link.

mayhem#

How about shotgun?

Rew

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055434761

Shotgun and rifle never really got off the ground AFAIK

Grizzly 45

Not anymore there isnt Mayhem.
It was killed off courtsey of paranoia of both sides of the Irish shooting lobby.The Gardai/DOJ thought it was some sort of mercenary /bodygaurd /terrorist training malarkey,and some other "vested intrests" on our side wanted it gone as well.:(

You could of course take up airsoft,and run around in the forests,with other people,wearing militry insigna and cammo ,practising plenty of military tactics,CQB and building entry ,etc.Using lookalike [admittedly toys] but good enough copies in look and weight of full auto stuff and handguns.And "shooting" at real people who will shoot back at you.Hell,there is even an Irish magazine for this.So it must be doing well...

Well, of course that we do things bass ackwards here in Ireland,it wont be long before Nanny Dermot Aherne bans that too,along with Samuari swords, our own handguns,and us not to be saying naughty things about God or his son.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Shotgun NEVER happened here. I tried for years to get it going in the pre internet days of the 1980s and early 90s.No one was intrested,or understood the concept.

mayhem#

Lads, thanks for getting back to me.
As with anything else with the Irish government they have again banned something rather than address it properly.
Not into airsoft as it feels a bit daft running around with what is basically a toy.
Anyway, what is the current regulation as regards to semi-auto handguns?

Rew

mayhem# wrote: »

Anyway, what is the current regulation as regards to semi-auto handguns?

Right now you can apply but your very unlikely to get the license. In the next few days (weeks?) the Firearms Misc Bill will be published and will most likely contain a section that will prohibit the issue of any pistol licenses.

Grizzly 45

Handguns Mayhem ...are either pistols or revolvers. Revolvers are the ones with the round bit that holds six shots.
Pistols are the ones that have a magazine in the butt[the bit you hold] and have a slide which must be pulled back and released and a manual saftey that has to be disengaged before it wil fire.Pistols are unless they have been modified by accident or design always semi auto..Thats it in very broad terms.
But here the law affects Handguns.Be they pistols or revolvers,and we are supposed to know within the next "seven weeks".Or as long as the current govt still stands.Whichever one is over sooner.;)

Rew

Grizzly you are pedantic enough to work for the DoJ pity about the recruitment ban Your definitions are wrong though.

mayhem#

Jeez Griz, chill.
If I say "semi-auto handgun" I obviously mean a pistol and not a revolver.
I didn't see an "I am stupid notice" on my post so wonder why you asumed I am..

Grizzly 45

Weelll....SorrrEEEE...:rolleyes:.If you meant a pistol,WTF did you say semi auto handgun???? FFS dont be so touchy.say what you mean and not what you mean to say.

Rew,do enlighten us as to the definations of a revolver and a pistol.
Work for the DOJ....Rather sell my ass down in the local red light zone than work for that shower...:pac:

Jacobo

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Rew,do enlighten us as to the definations of a revolver and a pistol.

A pistol is any kind of handgun. It does not need to be semi-auto. In fact, it doesn't need to be able to hold several rounds.

Sometimes, a distinction is made between pistols and revolvers, but that's not universal.

sfakiaman

Jacobo wrote: »

A pistol is any kind of handgun. It does not need to be semi-auto. In fact, it doesn't need to be able to hold several rounds.

Sometimes, a distinction is made between pistols and revolvers, but that's not universal.

Or to confuse matters further, what about the Mauser zig-zag or the Webley Fosbery automatic revolvers

jwshooter

im starting to think the pistol ban will be good for the sport as a hole .

to many headers with them me thinks, draw your own conclusions on that

triskell

You could of course take up airsoft,and run around in the forests,with other people,wearing militry insigna and cammo ,practising plenty of military tactics,CQB and building entry ,etc.Using lookalike [admittedly toys] but good enough copies in look and weight of full auto stuff and handguns.And "shooting" at real people who will shoot back at you.Hell,there is even an Irish magazine for this.So it must be doing well...

I recently came across this magazine, I couldn't believe my eyes,uniforms,webbing all the gear, tactics section attacks, small squad tactics, house clearing, embussing/debussing and I A drills. Unbelievable stuff, FFS I saw lads getting taken of the firing point at the range, getting a bollickin and being told they could not shoot becase they were wearing DPM.

Practical shooting getts binned and a blind eye is turned to this.
This Walt activity can have much more sinister applications than licenced and registered people shooting on a closed range with strict controls and supervision.
Ah sure they only toys:rolleyes:
Only in Ireland

murph226

Care to elaborate JW?

Rew

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Weelll....SorrrEEEE...:rolleyes:.If you meant a pistol,WTF did you say semi auto handgun???? FFS dont be so touchy.say what you mean and not what you mean to say.

Rew,do enlighten us as to the definations of a revolver and a pistol.
Work for the DOJ....Rather sell my ass down in the local red light zone than work for that shower...:pac:

A pistol is where the chamber is part of the barrel. Also if were going to be pedantic and condesending the butt is the base of the grip not the entire grip.

Rew

triskell wrote: »

Only in Ireland

Far from only in Ireland, Airsoft is still pretty low key in Ireland compared to the rest of the world. DoJ are extreamly suspicious though and the minister has a bee in his bonnet about Airsoft as well.

Rovi

jwshooter wrote: »

im starting to think the pistol ban will be good for the sport as a hole .

to many headers with them me thinks, draw your own conclusions on that

As we've advised here many times in the past, if you have concerns about someone's possession or (mis)use of a licenced firearm, it's your civic duty and responsibility as a law-abiding citizen to bring your concerns to the attention of the Gardaí.

In the meantime, I'm sure the many, many, licenced pistol owners who aren't 'headers' will be delighted to know that their sport is expendable.

Grizzly 45

Ah well, we'll go on the "Irish" definition of what a handgun is then ....and the difference between a pistol and revolver in Ireland is exactly???
Not what the rest of the Worlds police,military and judicary uses in defining short arms[to be really pendantic]which is by the action,not by its parts.Freaks like the Webly Foresby are still considerd a revolver.Due to the fact it has a distinctive part [the cylinder]that despite it's action is still considerd a revolver .

AND to be really pendantic and condesending Rew,the grip is considerd elsewhere to be the wooden/plastic bits connected to the frame of the pistol/revolver.

Dont worry folks,the airsoft will get it in the neck too,[as soon as Nanny Aherne's flunkies have boned up on it here on Boards.ie...:rolleyes:]
which will reflect on us as well.
Because sure as anything if WE cant decide on the differences between two types of distinct firearms.
Can we honestly expect the great unwashed to differentiate between toys and people playing at being weekend Rambos and the real thing???

bunny shooter

JWshooter have you progressed from snide comments to trolling ? I have a pistol and am getting rid of it mainly due to the hassle it will be to keep it imposed by non-educated people just like yourself. Only difference between most of them and you is they don't know any better

Know a few lads airsofting who have no interest in "real" firearms. It's like cowboys and indians
for big boys IMHO.

Same as everything innocent until it's used incorrectly

jwshooter

bunny shooter wrote: »

JWshooter have you progressed from snide comments to trolling ? I have a pistol and am getting rid of it mainly due to the hassle it will be to keep it imposed by non-educated people just like yourself. Only difference between most of them and you is they don't know any better

Know a few lads airsofting who have no interest in "real" firearms. It's like cowboys and indians
for big boys IMHO.

Same as everything innocent until it's used incorrectly

we all have pistols iv a HK USP 9MM at the min .iv pistols just under 4 years now ,im getting rid of mine also but for what reason BS .

who caused the problems the guys shooting targets in the local club or the muppets carrying them in the streets or the clubs hiring them out to any one .


so get your facts right

murph226

jwshooter wrote: »

who caused the problems the guys shooting targets in the local club or the muppets carrying them in the streets or the clubs hiring them out to any one.

I hope you reported the muppets you saw carrying them in the streets!

As for clubs hiring them out to anyone, I hope these clubs are few and far between.
Anybody interested in using a club pistol in any of the clubs I have been to would of had to join up first, complete a range safety course and would have been well vetted beforehand.

bunny shooter

jwshooter wrote: »

.............who caused the problems the guys shooting targets in the local club or the muppets carrying them in the streets or the clubs hiring them out to any one .


so get your facts right

I have heard of the guys carrying them in the streets, at country fairs, into the bank to do the lodgements, personal protection "work" etc too. I know a few of them too. BUT I am/was not one of them.

I am not a member of the/a club that hired them out.

We all know someone who's responsible and IMHO they SHOULD be publically named and shamed but they and we know it can't be done wthout severe legal & financial consequences for those who do it

The only thing that worrys me is they have other firearms too !

jwshooter

i could not agree more with you bunny .

you name a names now a days and pepare to spent time in court.

hear is a point to think about ,if the icpsa started to shoot clays with 10 autos running to firing points how long would it be till the sport is under the spot light .

a week.

kakashka

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins,all of them imaginary"-H Mencken
Crims caused the problem/joe bloggs does the time

Grizzly 45

bunny shooter wrote: »

I have heard of the guys carrying them in the streets, at country fairs, into the bank to do the lodgements, personal protection "work" etc too. I know a few of them too. BUT I am/was not one of them.



We all know someone who's responsible and IMHO they SHOULD be publically named and shamed but they and we know it can't be done wthout severe legal & financial consequences for those who do it

Laudable thoughts indeed BS.
BUT this is maybe the double edged sword that is why we never seem to get anywhere here with either [a] cleaning up our own acts or being able to refute accusations made against us.
Until somone is willing to bell this blooddy cat and stand by their statements with hard proof of all of the above mentioned points,and take it all the way up to and into a court of this land.We will forever be easily slapped down by the threat of legal action.
IOW It is no good coming on here and saying of these urban Irish pistol legends as I now call them

Examples

1]The bloke who was walking around Dublin with his 9mm in a thigh rig,and getting away with it as the liscense says you can carry your gun in a public place.


2] A certain range that was authorised for IPSA matches hosted a BG training course in firearms for a security contract on a certain Pacific Island

3] Supposed footage of the above,or simmilar incident taken on a camera phone in possesion of the DOJ.

And I'm sure now everyone has their own favourite version or story to tell of this type.However the big problem is;Anyone you ask who has this story has NEVER witnessed or knows the person involved first hand.
It is all "A mate whom I trust with my life,has it from a 2nd cousin of a mate whose girlfriend is in the Gardai,whose Sgt is a first cousin of the Min for Justice..So it MUST be true" type evidence.
Or
"I know the whole story,but I cant say about it for legal reasons,or the Garda DOJ..[insert your favourite boogeyman here] will take legal action against me,my job ,family etc."

The trouble with all this is it is at best circumstantial evidence, at worst heresay.Both lousy evidence to build a case on anything. A lot of these stories,I have found have been embellished for whatever reason in their telling,so it is becoming harder to sift the fact from fiction.

In away it would be good if these stories were in a court.After all if somone was such a cnut as to be strolling about the place with a drop leg holster with firepower in it.Would they Really want to go to court and admit they were breaking the law??

If somone has genuine concrete proof of any of these or other incidents happening.WHY have they never reported them to the Gardai?There is an onus on us to self police ourselves as well.
We either put up some proof that somone was /is breaking the law and do our duty as Irish citizens or we shut up and get manure thrown at us.

Blazher

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Laudable thoughts indeed BS.
BUT this is maybe the double edged sword that is why we never seem to get anywhere here with either [a] cleaning up our own acts or being able to refute accusations made against us.
Until somone is willing to bell this blooddy cat and stand by their statements with hard proof of all of the above mentioned points,and take it all the way up to and into a court of this land.We will forever be easily slapped down by the threat of legal action.
IOW It is no good coming on here and saying of these urban Irish pistol legends as I now call them

Examples

1]The bloke who was walking around Dublin with his 9mm in a thigh rig,and getting away with it as the liscense says you can carry your gun in a public place.


2] A certain range that was authorised for IPSA matches hosted a BG training course in firearms for a security contract on a certain Pacific Island

3] Supposed footage of the above,or simmilar incident taken on a camera phone in possesion of the DOJ.

And I'm sure now everyone has their own favourite version or story to tell of this type.However the big problem is;Anyone you ask who has this story has NEVER witnessed or knows the person involved first hand.
It is all "A mate whom I trust with my life,has it from a 2nd cousin of a mate whose girlfriend is in the Gardai,whose Sgt is a first cousin of the Min for Justice..So it MUST be true" type evidence.
Or
"I know the whole story,but I cant say about it for legal reasons,or the Garda DOJ..[insert your favourite boogeyman here] will take legal action against me,my job ,family etc."

The trouble with all this is it is at best circumstantial evidence, at worst heresay.Both lousy evidence to build a case on anything. A lot of these stories,I have found have been embellished for whatever reason in their telling,so it is becoming harder to sift the fact from fiction.

In away it would be good if these stories were in a court.After all if somone was such a cnut as to be strolling about the place with a drop leg holster with firepower in it.Would they Really want to go to court and admit they were breaking the law??

If somone has genuine concrete proof of any of these or other incidents happening.WHY have they never reported them to the Gardai?There is an onus on us to self police ourselves as well.
We either put up some proof that somone was /is breaking the law and do our duty as Irish citizens or we shut up and get manure thrown at us.

Your only back after a 4 week ban for doing the same thing. You don't know what your talking about. You never have. I would also love to hear, Where you overheard or who told you this 5th hand BS.

On second thoughts, Take your own advoice ( The two words in bold and underlined )


As for Practial Pristol, Its a shame that it went the way it did. But with the stone age mind frame that alot of people still have in this state it was doomed before it even started.

And as for airsoft. I think its a joke how the Doj take the action they did when it came to IPSA and then turn there backs on Airsoft. There is NO regulation on airsoft at the moment in this state, as long as a AEG is under 328 FPS using a 2g 6mm BB, its classed as a toy, Even tho at point blank range they can do damage to a person.

You can walk in to any Airsoft shop and buy ANY rep Firearm in the world. And use it to rob a shop or a person ( It has been done ) And the person would never and i mean NEVER know it was a Toy.

But this is not the place for that talk.

By the way i am not anti Airsoft. It just needs to be regulated like in the USA/UK.

You ever notice when its to make us look bad we are told we are to much like the USA, But the fact is , We are nothing like them.

Sparks

I can't really see this thread going anywhere new and/or productive, but we'll leave it open if someone can prove me wrong by day's end...

Hivemind187

Regarding airsoft:

The IAA (the ngb for the pursuit) has been in talks with the DOJ repeatedly with regard to controlling the proliferation of equipment in an unchecked manner, this has yielded positive results which are to be included in the MPB which include (and you'll forgive me that I dont know the precise wording the DOJ has chosen)

1) Removing the right of personal import of airsoft devices to the country by individuals.

2) Restricting the right of import and retail of equipment to specific, vetted, dealers.

3) The introduction of the specific offense of "brandishing" a replica of any kind in a public place without appropriate context.

A blind eye was not turned to airsoft and indeed the minister has threatened (albeit it hollowly from what we can tell) to ban it for utterly spurious reasons. It was the concerted efforts of the responsible community which changed the state of play in this regard.

As for the "sinister" elements some have made allegations of - utter codswallop. Airsoft is no more "sinister" than paintball (which has been here for 20 years and no one bats an eyelid - and yes they do wear tac-kit and uniforms) and attempting to paint it as such is falling into the same small minded - "its not us jack" - attitudes that led to the deplorable practical pistol ban.

For the record: I shoot teh real gunz as often as I can.

cavan shooter

I note in the north recently that airsoft toys are now coming with orange barrells and coloured actions (blue) in line with the similiar approach to blank firing pistols in the UK.

I have watched practical shooting, (looks exciting) I can see the controversy it causes its a bit more "active" than shooting clays or targets, it wouldnt be my cup of tea so I'll say no more.

Grizzly 45

[

quote=Blazher;60123124]Your only back after a 4 week ban for doing the same thing. You don't know what your talking about. You never have. I would also love to hear, Where you overheard or who told you this 5th hand BS.

Hi Blazher,Back as well from your 4week hols as well then?:rolleyes:
Still making accusations about people you dont know??Well stump up some concrete proof then is to what I am saying is BS.Love to see or hear it.

On second thoughts, Take your own advoice ( The two words in bold and underlined )
[/QUOTE] It's spelled ADVICE BTW

As for Practial Pristol, Its a shame that it went the way it did. But with the stone age mind frame that alot of people still have in this state it was doomed before it even started.

Indeed,pity then in good Irish tradition the people who lost out on this [us]have to resort to infighting and blame games and calling each other idiots etc.Instead of trying to get to the bottom of this as to why it was banned.

You ever notice when its to make us look bad we are told we are to much like the USA, But the fact is , We are nothing like them.

[/QUOTE]
For once you said somthing sensible there.

Sparks

...or maybe we don't need to wait until day's end. Thread locked before people get banned.

Blazher

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Regarding airsoft:

The IAA (the ngb for the pursuit) has been in talks with the DOJ repeatedly with regard to controlling the proliferation of equipment in an unchecked manner, this has yielded positive results which are to be included in the MPB which include (and you'll forgive me that I dont know the precise wording the DOJ has chosen)

1) Removing the right of personal import of airsoft devices to the country by individuals.

2) Restricting the right of import and retail of equipment to specific, vetted, dealers.

3) The introduction of the specific offense of "brandishing" a replica of any kind in a public place without appropriate context.

I am fully aware of this. I am also aware that the IAA is not the only body for airsoft. The same thing that happened to us, Is happening to you lot.

Some people seem to think they can do it better. And you have retailers who are selling AEGs to every walk of life knownly.

A blind eye was not turned to airsoft and indeed the minister has threatened (albeit it hollowly from what we can tell) to ban it for utterly spurious reasons. It was the concerted efforts of the responsible community which changed the state of play in this regard.

From the stuff i personaly have seen happened on site, People shooting AEGs at over 328, some as high as 600 and nothing be doing. Sites checking the FPS of AEGs but not checking the BB weight.

I have seen people use .6g BBs at 320FPS and they hurt.

There needs to be stricked controll on sites. Guidelines need to be set down from the ngb(once you find out who this is once and for all) Also you need to get site owners and retailers to agree to them.

As for the "sinister" elements some have made allegations of - utter codswallop. Airsoft is no more "sinister" than paintball (which has been here for 20 years and no one bats an eyelid - and yes they do wear tac-kit and uniforms) and attempting to paint it as such is falling into the same small minded - "its not us jack" - attitudes that led to the deplorable practical pistol ban.

For the record: I shoot teh real gunz as often as I can.

We both know thats a lie. A paintball devoice and a airsoft AEG are nothing alike. Even the most morden Paintball devoices you can tell are not real firearms, But the badly made Airsoft AEGs, Like the JG Styre AUG that someone used to replace with two real Styre AUGs in a Army barricks not to long ago, Just go to show. It was only when they where checked for serial numbers where they found to be fake. but when the armourer looked at the racks he could not tell them apart.


There needs to be something like what the USA have, Where all AEGs have the muzzle painted so people can see they are not real.

Because lets face it, Every AEG thats used in a sinister way makes us look bad. Not the airsofters.

Sparks

Blazher wrote: »

I am fully aware of this. I am also aware that the IAA is not the only body for airsoft. The same thing that happened to us, Is happening to you lot.

The IAA is the only recognised one; the 'other' body is merging into them. See the appropriate threads in the airsoft forum.

We both know thats a lie. A paintball devoice and a airsoft AEG are nothing alike.

Paintball - ~15J. Airsoft - <1J. So yes, you're right.

Like the JG Styre AUG that someone used to replace with two real Styre AUGs in a Army barricks not to long ago, Just go to show. It was only when they where checked for serial numbers where they found to be fake. but when the armourer looked at the racks he could not tell them apart.

That's an urban legend, fairly thoroughly debunked at this point, see the appropriate threads in the Military forum here or on other Irish Army boards.