How long a taper?

Cerlan

Just wondering what the general consensus is on how long a taper you need before a marathon. I see some plans have 3 weeks and others only two. Is two weeks too short a taper for a marathon? Would like to get in two more long runs before Cork...

Gringo78

Don't really see any consensus on it but my view would be that it depends on the person i.e how much the long run normally takes out you, do you feel tired for days afterwards or is it a distant memory 2 days after doing it.

Also I would suppose that if your aim is to get an extra long run in and do a only a 2 week taper it would depend on what type of a long run it is i.e your longest run you will do and running the last 6 miles at PMP would be a tougher run to get over than say a LSR that was 10% slower than your goal marathon pace and which was maybe 2 miles short of your longest long run.

I'm going to do a 2 week taper to get an extra long run in but it will not be my longest run and will be an 'easy' long run

Stupid_Private

Cerlan wrote: »

Just wondering what the general consensus is on how long a taper you need before a marathon. I see some plans have 3 weeks and others only two. Is two weeks too short a taper for a marathon? Would like to get in two more long runs before Cork...

It really depends what you're comfortable with and what your training load was. The highest weekly mileage I did before my recent marathon was 70 miles. I'd consider my taper to have been one week. The last week looked like this

Sun - 15 miles
Monday - 6 miles
Tuesday - 6 miles with 8 x 1 minute intervals
Wednesday - 10 miles
Thursday - 5 miles
Friday - 4 miles with 5 x 20 second intervals
Saturday - OFF
Sunday - Race

tunney

Slight hijack here........

I'll be doing my taper in 5 weeks. I know that your immune system is at its weakest during a proper taper and as such I want to supplement my diet to help prevent illness during the taper.

I presently take the following:
* Echinacea
* Multi-vit
* Fish oils

Is there anything else that can be taken to help support the immune system during a taper? Bar avoiding pigs and kids?

Racing Flat

tunney wrote: »

Slight hijack here........

I'll be doing my taper in 5 weeks. I know that your immune system is at its weakest during a proper taper and as such I want to supplement my diet to help prevent illness during the taper.

I presently take the following:
* Echinacea
* Multi-vit
* Fish oils

Is there anything else that can be taken to help support the immune system during a taper? Bar avoiding pigs and kids?

I'd be keeping myself well stocked up in natural sources of Vit C. Red chillis, tomatoes, oranges, lemons etc.

RJC

Glucosamine for the knees and a bit of zinc (if not in your multi-vit).

I find the taper to be a blessing and a curse. It stresses me out no end to be hanging around for the last 2 weeks hoping that i'm 'peaking'.

I haven't yet decided to run cork so I have plenty of running left to do but if your long runs don't completely knacker you then I'd go shorter rather than longer on the taper. It's all about reducing volume, not intensity (or so I'm told). Personally I find a nice LSR much easier in the last week than a 5 mile hill session or a 4 mile tempo run which goes against the grain on the advice about intensity/volume but I suppose it's each to his own.

tergat

Cerlan wrote: »

Just wondering what the general consensus is on how long a taper you need before a marathon. I see some plans have 3 weeks and others only two. Is two weeks too short a taper for a marathon? Would like to get in two more long runs before Cork...

Cerlan,

Here is something runners need to understand about tapering for a marathon race:

1) Tapering mileage is not a necessity of peaking. It is possible to run your normal mileage and still have a peak performance.

2) Tapering mileage is primarily needed to restore glycogen stores, not for "spring" in your legs.

3) Tapering is a personal thing. Most runners need a modest taper before a marathon. The most you should taper is about 50%, but that should be just for the week preceding a marathon race. Some runners should NOT taper below 70% of their normal volume or they will face a terrible last 10-15km of their marathon race.

The length of taper generally depends upon two factors, I have found:

A) Your muscle fiber type. If you are mainly a slow twitcher - have slow speed over short distances but good endurance when trained properly - then you need very little taper. If you are slow twitcher but taper significantly, you'll do horribly in distance races. If you have a lot of fast twitch fibers, that is you have great natural speed over short distances, then you can taper longer and more before a big race.
If you are sore and depleted from overly ambitious training, you have to taper, at least some. Slow twitcher have to slow way down - slow their pace - but only taper about 20%. Any more and they will tend to perform very poorly. And, the taper should be no more than 10 days. Most slow twitchers can taper just 5 days and fast twitchers about 10 days before endurance starts to fade.

The above are just my obersvations from coaching runners/reading etc. I have no science to back up my comments, just observation.

I suggest that you pick one of three peaking plans: short, medium or long duration. Choose the one that fits your situation and needs. The short peak phase lasts 4-5 days only. The medium one lasts 8-10 days. The long one last 15-21 days. If in doubt, pick the middle one.

Long runs are a critical element of marathon training, but it is important to back off the duration so that your legs wont be too sore on race day. If you having been really pushing the mileage high and your long runs long, then start tapering the long runs about 4-5 weeks before race day. If you have been reasonable and not overextending yourself, your last long run can be 22 days before your race. I suggest cutting your long run by 20-25% on day 15 before your race and 30-35% on day 8 before your race. For example, if you have been running 20 milers regularly for a long run, then two weekends before your race run 15 miles only at an easy to moderate speed. Then, one weekend before your event run 13 miles at a slow pace.

Tergat

Cerlan

cheers for the replies, especially that comprehensive one tergat. Think I will take your advice and reduce the distance after this weekend. Long runs tend to take a lot out of me. Still recovering after Sunday's run!

Barty

Similar to Cerlan I am trying to decide how long I should taper for before the Cork marathon. I have been using Hal Higdon's novice 1 training schedule. The Cork marathon is my first and after doing my first 20 mile run last Saturday I am considering doing another 20 mile one this weekend - although the training schedule starts tapering from this week. I did struggle last Saturday - mainly due to the heat on Saturday afternoon (I decided to wait until 1pm to go for a run to get used to the heat incase it's warm in Cork on the day) but also due to a bit of tightness in one of my legs - which I am going to get checked this evening. However, after going for a long walk yesterday I have recovered well and feel that if I taper for 3 weeks it may be too long?
From tergat's detailed response above I would say I come under category A and hence should have a short/medium taper however after spending the last 4 months training for this I definitely don't want to mess up now by not tapering for long enough - any advice would be greatly appreciated

hunnymonster

Tunney, VitC and Zinc (these might be in your multivit already), cultivate a little OCD and wash your hands as often as possible, carry a small bottle of alcohol gel around with you.

tunney

Cheers hunny.

Have the alcohol wash but not the OCD! Will work on it!

cfitz

tunney wrote: »

I know that your immune system is at its weakest during a proper taper and as such I want to supplement my diet to help prevent illness during the taper.

Why is your immune system at its weakest during a proper taper? I never heard that before and I would have guessed that it was at its weakest during the most intense phase of training.

Racing Flat

cfitz wrote: »

Why is your immune system at its weakest during a proper taper? I never heard that before and I would have guessed that it was at its weakest during the most intense phase of training.

Is it because the taper comes just after the most intensive part of training? Like if you do a ridiculously hard session you sometimes get away with it, but if you don't eat and rest right in the few days after, you'll probably come down with a cold the following week? Just my own observations.

Bambaata

recently started taking zinc, vit C and have been on cod liver oil for yrs. Started taking lysine too as i get plagued by cold sores, although not as bad this past few years, and i believe lysine is good for repairing and the generally well being of skin (and God knows i abuse mine enough!)

RJC

Bambaata wrote: »

recently started taking zinc, vit C and have been on cod liver oil for yrs. Started taking lysine too as i get plagued by cold sores, although not as bad this past few years, and i believe lysine is good for repairing and the generally well being of skin (and God knows i abuse mine enough!)

I think you are my twin.


Also glucosamine sulphate for the joints.

Hard Worker

I would recommend one month of ferrous fumarate starting 7 weeks before the big day. Plenty of vitamin c and CoQ10 in the final 2 weeks.
I don't know of any multi vitamin tablet on the market that is of any use.

trotter_inc

I started my taper for Cork at the weekend, did my last 20 miler on Saturday.

Longest run I will do this week is 13 miles.

I'm reading a book on endurance training at the moment and it gave what sounds like a good rule, called something like the 'one day a mile rule' for a taper. Basically, if you're X days away from you marathon then the longest run which you do that week should not exceed x miles. For example, if you're 14 days away from a marathon then the most you should run in that week is 14 miles.

Not sure how valid the recommendation is but it sounds like a good rule of thumb.

Barty

Is this your first marathon trotter? Also did you do other 20 milers before last Saturday? The training schedule I have been following has a 5, 8 and 4 mile run on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday this week and then a 12 mile run on Saturday. I am still considering doing more than the 12 miles but the last thing I want to do is injure myself or overdo it and not give myself enough time to recover.

trotter_inc

Barty wrote: »

Is this your first marathon trotter? Also did you do other 20 milers before last Saturday? The training schedule I have been following has a 5, 8 and 4 mile run on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday this week and then a 12 mile run on Saturday. I am still considering doing more than the 12 miles but the last thing I want to do is injure myself or overdo it and not give myself enough time to recover.

Yeah, this is my first marathon Barty, have been training since late January.

I've been roughly following the Hildalgon Intermediate II program and have done 1 x 22 miles, 2 x 20 miles and 3 x 18 miles. I find that I run my first 3 miles at a quite slow (over 8 minute per mile) and uncomfortable pace but after get I get in to the swing of things and I run at about 7 mins 40 secs per mile. When I run I don't like watching my pace, I take the approach of "I'm out here to run 20 miles and I'm going to enjoy it". I feel that having a positive attitude while running boosts my time rather than keeping an eye on my watch.

I think the general consensus when it comes to tapering is "more is less" The more you run in the taper the less energy you have for the race day. I wouldn't go over 12 miles this week but then again that's just my opinion.

Have you been reading any training books. I got 2 great ones from my local library and found them extremely interesting, some great tips, advice and stories in them.