The Worst S.U in Ireland: What Today Was

PrivateEye

Today, Minister for Education Batt O' Keefe was on your campus.

When Batt has tried to visit other University campuses, Students Unions have organised against it. When Brian Lenihan visited U.C.D, it was the Students Union that called for a mass mobilisation of students, along with others. When Batty visited TCD, the Students Union held a tokenistic protest. In Limerick and throughout Ireland various S.Us held protests against visits by this Minister, and others.

This is the second time Batts been here. The first time we got a cringy picture of our President with Batt O' Keefe all smiles and handshakes.

TCD, UL, UCD- this is national. USI and UCD held a sit in together at a government dept. recently. The NUIM SU has gone in alone on taking its bizarre stance on fees. Welcoming Bertie and attacking Fees in the one Presidents Report wont cut it Henry.

Your paper was rubbish, your President was rubbish, and both took a completely different line to basically every Uni in Ireland, even Ogra FF dominated unions had the backbone to stand by student feeling. Over 5 free buses from other colleges (UCD EVEN!) but none from NUIM to the Feb 4th demo? They've been at this all year.

Batt O' Keefe, Brian Lenihan and their sort cant walk into a community centre in Ireland without being protested. We now have the honour of being the only S.U in Ireland to roll out the red carpet for Batty. Twice.

Keeping us in the dark over a visiting Minister for Education at a time like this, when even the President of the U.S.I is saying its time to step up actions (and they're not even critical of 'militant' campaigns like F.E.E, in fact a load of encouragement came from the U.S.I after our occupation) is puzzling.

There's the student unions of Ireland, and then there's the students union of Maynooth. There is no campus in Ireland that would welcome O' Keefe at the minute without a tokenistic protest even.

But hey, at least the Exec got something for their CVs. With the exception of Welfare/Equality and a handful of others who are h elpful if you need a bit of constitutional knowledge, they've been the worst S.U I've ever seen.


Its been a bad year. I fully hope some of these people do not progress in politics at all.

sadie06

That is indeed bad. I am not a student yet, will be there in September hopefully, but I am interested in politics, specifically in getting the current crowd out. Student protests get coverage...it was an opportunity missed. It all chips away at their public image.

All groups, be they pensioners, parents of children with special needs, students, those being let down by the health service...anyone with any interest in turning this country around, should grasp every opportunity to embarrass members of the current government, particularly when they are turning up for some sort of photo op as if it is all business as usual.

PrivateEye

I don't get how they don't realise failing to protest a Minister that several other S.Us have protested against already nationwide, and their micky-mouse paper, and other little factors all come together to create the impression of a 'Hurr Durr' S.U out in Kildare that hasn't a clue what its doing.

It was pathetic to see the President walking around in his tie and shirt to meet a Minister while students up and down the country are worried about their families finances next year. Complete mess on their part, could have followed the example of others but rather decided to take this bizarre stance.

The worst kind of people in student politics are careerists.
They keep business from getting done, they keep college papers crap, they keep students unions redundant. This years S.U was a fine example of how NOT to run a union. No passion, no backbone.

allandanyways

Just to point out another failure of the SU- ehh where's the supplementary canteen service? Bit late now, but I, among many commuters, am disgusted that we never got any alternative to poxy O'Briens and Pugin (which although lovely, is a pain to walk over to, only occasionally has its amazing soup [usually minestrone these days which I hate] and is a bit steep when all you really want is some goujons or something)

Maybe it's because I'm a larger lady who loves her food and I actually like to have the craic and enjoy my lunch and know that I can just go and sit somewhere and have a cuppa without being asked to move or having to sit in the blue chairs with a sh!t cup of tea from O' Briens.... Seriously though, especially for commuters, not having a decent lunch facility is a joke. If we've a break, I know most people go home cos they can't be bothered staying in with nowhere to go.

I think it's pathetic that the SU didn't do a BLOODY THING except allow undergrads into Pugin. There's plenty of catering companies who would love the work. Absolute joke, the SU is pathetic, and although yeah, a load of wasters did run for it, anything will be better than the bunch of clueless eejits in there at the moment.

PrivateEye

^Very true.

Seeing as synd. started a thread on today from the fees point of view, this thread can become a place for us to throw gravel on the coffin of this S.U for other issues too. My personal memories of this years S.U:


**doing absolutely nothing for the canteen workers. 'The Maynooth Community Experience' is only for the college fairs, no real sense of community with those around us obviously.

**The Joke, sorry Spoke.

**The position on fees. You'll find quotes online from UCD,DCU,UL,TCD and other SUs taking a hard stance on this one, with most of them supporting it in reality with blockades etc. UL Pres. said that 'no Minister will enter this campus unimpeded'- In Maynooth they got a cup of tea from the Exec, in their nicest suits.

** 'not having a decent lunch facility is a joke' = +1

** Bertiegate: Berties arrival mentioned in the same Presidents Report were Durka says they're 'commited to fighting fees' :rolleyes:...with no comment, needless to say.

**No real effort to reach out with the broader community during the chaos of the year. Seen Uni/I.T banners marching with local school teachers for example on the ICTU demo. This kind of gesture, while small, ensures a colleges standing in the community.

**The clicqueness of it all. WE GET IT. YOU'RE ALL MATES.

allandanyways

Maybe it was just the first year buzz, but last year I had a really good time in Maynooth, the bar exes were (fairly) good, there was always someone I knew in the SU and everyone seemed pretty happy. I didn't feel an overwhelming prescence of the SU but I didn't mind seeing the execs around and thought there was a fairly good buzz around campus.

This year it's been like a big grey cloud over the whole college. I never go to the SU anymore during the day, any time I see the execs they're dossing and just messing around and promotion of bar exes seems desperate, nobody's arsed with the SU anymore.

I know there's a recession and everyone cant afford to be going out all the time, but there's just a horrible feeling of "meh" around the place, meh about fees, meh about socialising, meh about college.

It's depressing really to be about the place these days and it should be the duty of the SU to distract us from the horrors of these recessionary times and make sure the students are happy. How I don't know, but they should.

hypersquirrel

The Spoke is a joke.
The lack of canteen facilities is a joke.

Personally however I don't see the big deal about O'Keefe. I'm not rich, in fact I'm currently €6000, unemployed and my parents having lost most of their income as a result of the recession can't afford to bail me out if I cock up, yet I would rather pay fees and have a good quality of education then not pay fees and have them cut the quality of the courses.

We all know that the economy is struggling, that universities are struggling financially and if we don't have fees then cuts will have to be made somewhere. Put in place a system whereby you only pay a small amount upfront and the remainder when you start earning. Give fee reductions to students who perform consistently well. I do not agree with just throwing in fees but in reality it is going to happen. Having a bunch of students standing at the gates isn't going to stop that. It makes far more sense for the union to meet these people and voice the concerns of te students in a logical manner and try to come to a compromise.

Beau

Very good post hypersquirrel, I couldn't agree more. Fees are coming and if its done properly Irish colleges will be better for it. Its the reality of the situation. The challenge now is with coming up with a system that is fair and equitable. In fact the SU's website on it http://www.nuimsu.com/feesandme is pretty good.

Maybe they should have announced it for the likes of FEE to organise a protest if they wanted too. Again its a tough one, I don't know what I would have done if I was Pres.

banquo

Beau, hypersquirel, you have voiced my thoughts exactly.

I've seen a lot of waste in my time here - not just taxpayer money, but of young brains and student opportunities too.

i) I'm 100% willing to pay for a higher standard. I've spent thousands in my time here already. Think how many books (drool) I could have bought with that! I'd like to get more for it.

(ii) Potential students will think twice about what course they choose. Less 'ah sure I'll do this sure why not lolstfu'.

(iii) Since they have to pay for it, we'll see students working harder.

(iv) Now facing a student body that is mostly in - at least - part-time employment, universities might adapt to teaching practices that don't work against the not-so-well-off students who have to work. Oh what's that? Daddy can't pay for you to be here for me to hand you notes that could just as easily been online? No, sorry, it's very important that you receive them out of my hand, ''that's what college is''

(v) Many students will work for a year or so before coming to college. Good for them. By working for two years before I came here I was in a much better position for study, etc, because I had already spent my eighteenth and nineteenth years getting all the sex/alcohol out my youthful system.

Anyway, these are my feelings towards the fees. Back OT, I imagine that the SU crowd didn't want their meeting with the minister 'spoiled' by FEE protests. Look how neat my bedroom is minister.

I completely agree with PrivateEye that this year's SU was absolutely pitiful. I think the front cover of the last Spoke sums it up nicely. Pitiful pitiful pitiful. With the exception of the Welfare/Equality Officer, who I met a few times in the course of the campaigns and is delightful.

Roll on next year.

Edit: I quite like Brian Murphy. He's sound as a bell, won't do anything with a thousand consenting voices from inside and outside the SU, and is the least clique-y person I met on the campaign trail!

Lord TSC

While I agree with you Bonquo in most of your points, there's one that I think is debateable...

Many students will work for a year or so before coming to college. Good for them. By working for two years before I came here I was in a much better position for study, etc, because I had already spent my eighteenth and nineteenth years getting all the sex/alcohol out my youthful system.

Congrats if you feel taking some time out made you a better person. But its far too sweeping a presumption to think everyone would be the same. In my experience, the majority of people who take a "year out", be it for work or pleasure, don't return to education since they get too comfortable making money and don't want to give that up. I'm not saying my experience is the right one, but I think you can't take a personal experience and apply it to 18-20 year olds in general.

That said, I think you're spot on in your other points.

Beau

Yeh Banquo apart from that point you're pretty much spot on. I don't think people should have to work after leaving school to fund their education but should be able start paying it back later.

banquo

After reading the last two posts, I concede that point. People shouldn't have to work full-time before coming to college. Unfortunately, a lot will. And while it was great for me - and for people I know who repeated the LC, etc - that might not be the case for everyone.

Point conceded

I think the following video sums up this year's SU nicely:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Ilq3kFxek

Anyway, this year's SU is all but over so let's turn our attention to next year's. Personally, I'm thrilled Brian Murphy won. Out of all the candidates I met he seemed the most capable, though Shevlin seemed pretty genuine to me also. A lot of people running for different positions just so they could hang out with their mates next year though. Still, we can only work with what we have.

So: what should be on the agenda for next year?

Hand_Of_Steel

I have a question. How many of you were at the Glenroyal in January when the SU held the protest against Brian Lenihan? you know, the one where he came out to talk to the students present. Has anybody in fee been talking to any ministers?

PrivateEye

Has anybody in fee been talking to any ministers?

We want to see the SUs (as a nationwide front) talk to the Ministers in a real way. We can't do that obviously, we're all just normal students. The elected reps. will hopefully get to sit down as a unit with the Dept./Minister and hammer it out. The problem is 'Photo-shoot talks' which is what the two engagements so far have been.

It makes far more sense for the union to meet these people and voice the concerns of te students in a logical manner and try to come to a compromise.

People will HAVE to talk to the Ministers. Ultimately, its how things will get done.

So the way forward is...

USI (And I would hope the FUSU, which represents us) sit down with the Minister for Education and discuss the issues.

S.Us and the USI etc. do not allow Ministers on campus for silly photo-ops. This tactic embarrases the Ministers, and hopefully moves us closer to the above needed REAL talks.

The problem with yesterday is that the 'meeting' was only thrown in around O' Keefes photo-shoot. That's exactly what yesterday was. I'd agree with the stance some S.Us have taken on this one (U.L for one) that meetings and debate formally, off campus will get things done.

He didn't come on campus to talk to our S.U. That should be obvious to everyone. The problem here is that the S.U allowed a Minister on campus, in the current climate, for a quick camera snap/picture with a shovel, and unlike ANY other S.U in Ireland did not feel the need to inform the student body.

FEE had a proper discussion with a senior figure at the Dept. of Finance during our occupation there, but we constantly stressed we awere just a group of individual students and not a representative group. The USI and UCD SU occupied another Dept. but I don't know what happened there. Ultimately, its the S.Us/ USI (and again I cant stress I'd like SUs from non USi colleges to be represented too at any such talks) that need to sit down and talk to the Minister/Dept. formally. Not before they go off to wear a hard hat for a photo shoot.

Beau

Hand_Of_Steel wrote: »

I have a question. How many of you were at the Glenroyal in January when the SU held the protest against Brian Lenihan? you know, the one where he came out to talk to the students present.

Really? I never heard of that protest. I definitely would have attended if I had of heard about it, not to protest but to see what he had to say and ask questions myself.

theredletter

"**The clicqueness of it all. WE GET IT. YOU'RE ALL MATES. "

That's hilarious... How is that relevant to your overall argument? SUs in every university are invariably cliquey, it's called good working relationships. In NUIM you see the footballers, the rugby players, the self-confessed alternotavos etc. etc. Let them have that, I don't think they're into rubbing it in people's faces. I've found them all pretty approachable apart from one or two, and that hasn't put me off.

The one thing I'd say about FEE is that they're losing the battle. If they want to get people to protest in Maynooth then do it, put your money where your mouth is and get a Maynooth-based protest in the works. Sticking brown envelopes (how clever) around the Arts block is only going to annoy the cleaners and confuse some of the dimmer sparks of the campus. I think you need to calm down with the violence though- you'll get yourself a bad image and turn into some sort of youth defence that everyone will eventually turn against. Think of imaginative ways to get attention. It can be done without acting destructively, can't it? Not that I'm saying your outwardly advocate violence, but you really should think about more interesting, creative ways to get your group out there.

On the SU note as a post-grad who already pays fees regardless, I think that FEE as a body need to build a better, more positive attitude in their dealings with the SU. If you promise certain things (like not advocating violence) and act as a support system to the SU's campaign against fees then I'd say they'd be well up for it.

Another thing, I respect FEE's principals (to an extent) and their vigour and general passion for the cause but you guys gotta get some facts right. Free buses were provided for the first protest in early semester one. Posters were also put up for the first and second one. The problem with NUIM, and a problem that I think you're going to face in your fight, is that we have so much students who don't care. I heard 60 percent of NUIM students are on a County council grant or access. Immediately they won't care as it won't affect them. It would be cool if they did, but they won't... I think I'd be the same if i was in their situation. NUIM's SU have done a lot in the year, and maybe they should've done mroe for this cause, but there's been student deaths, fires, new development plans etc. They are a group of 9 or whatever- they can't be doing it all. I think Durkah has done his best with this one... though there is more to do and i think he would definitely agree with that one.

Another point to be made is that post-grad Fees are going up next year. I think FEE have forgotten that one?? Sort it out for us! I'll help (within reason)!

redenemyjoe

I would have given a **** if I was going to live here for the rest of my life. I know many people who are around my age (20) that can't stay in this country any longer for fear of becoming another Irish commuter, 6.00 to work 22.00 back home, living to work.

I know this seems unrelated but I'm just trying to get the point across as to why students don't care (those who don't).

There is no change coming as far as politics in Ireland are concerned, the next elections are pointless, the dail is full of lethargic half-wits, I am sick to my teeth of the majority portion of sheep this country has produced.

I'm sorry to sound like I'm saying all of your effort is in vain but from my standpoint, with the door in sight, I can only say good luck.

PrivateEye

**just to stress the other thread seems now to be a FEE thread, as it is the FEE response, while this one is basically my own personal *rage*
Don't think its fair on others in FEE, as me going on about the paper/lack of this and that is nothing to do with FEE.

Hey theredletter,

Free buses were provided for the first protest in early semester one

FEE said no buses were run to the national demo.
Is this correct? Yep. February 4th, the national demo against fees.
We didn't accuse the S.U of not running buses to the All Dublin demo, we acknowledged that.

Sticking brown envelopes (how clever) around the Arts block is only going to annoy the cleaners and confuse some of the dimmer sparks of the campus.

We actually got emails from two lecturers saying they thought that was clever, and were told the same by a few members of staff and a lot of students. Different strokes I guess... seeing as the Press Release on Berties appointment did a vanishing act online for a while it seemed a clever way to spread the word. A member of staff provided us with the envelopes too


I see your point on working with the Student Union though. FEE nationally knows the Minister will have to sit down with THEM, that's what we're pushing for too. In colleges where the S.Us took more proactive steps against fees (U.C.D for one) the relationship between FEE and the S.U is much better. If next years Union are better? Hell yeah, get right behind them every step of the way. Ultimately FEE is a protest group at grassroots level, the S.Us are the representatives and they'll be the ones at the table.

I think you need to calm down with the violence though

Blockades and occupations are being pulled by S.Us and U.S.I.
I think its only in campuses where S.Us aren't taking direct action themselves people find this stuff scary. When we were leaving the Dept. of Finance after the occupation their Dept. Official even said to the media outside we were a well behaved bunch and the senior Garda shook our hands and all :rolleyes:

All in all I agree with what you're saying on the S.U campaign front, building bridges is a two-way thing though. I think its highly unusual in NUIM for any kind of student campaign to take off to any extent and when the youth wings of the major parties are single number 'branches' and then we can gather a decent number of people it's a whole new situation in terms of dealings.

I want to get behind next years S.U, and the S.Us across the country, on this one next year. Some of them showed the way this year, and I hope the rest follow.

As for Post-Grads- we've post-grad students in FEE that won't let us forget that one in most colleges, I agree with you on it too obviously.

Again Synd posted the FEE reaction so It'd be cool if FEE talk went there.

I don't know what people in FEE think about The Spoke, 'cliquy' this or that or anything else.

theredletter

Thanks a million, PrivateEye. I heard about the pretty negative feeling at the Students' Council there at the start of the week. I don't think you'll get far with this year's president, but you don't know what other members of the exec think. If the new guy supports you then go for it!

Intelligent responses like that will get FEE far. Maybe the members of FEE shouldn't have attended the council in order to keep that distance until the new executive are in power.

On the brown envelopes, I did think they were clever... I just don't think some students got it.. as we're not all politically-minded (i'm not anyway!).

Good luck with your activities, but try not to hurt anyone or be mean to anyone along the way. A lot can be done with being nice!

I'll consider helping you guys out in the future.

red.

banquo

http://www.nuimsu.com/news/2009/05/05/students-union-responds-criticism-fee

NUIMSU.COM wrote:

Students’ Union responds to criticism by FEE
Posted May 5th, 2009 by communications

On May 5th the protest group FEE criticised the Students’ Union’s decision to talk with Education Minister Batt O’ Keefe. The focus of the criticism was that whilst other Students’ Unions around the country protest the presence of any government minister on campus, the NUI Maynooth Students’ Union is more likely to sit down with the official.
The Union’s reasons for this are simple, whilst much is being done to demonstrate students anger at the prospect of tuition fees by way of public protests, very little is being done in terms of sitting down with the government to actually discuss realistic plans as to how the non-introduction of fees can be accomplished.
The Union believes in a two pronged attack, hence their involvement in Anti-Fee marches in Dublin and also their own organised protest when members of Fianna Fáil met in the Glenroyal hotel last October, not to mention the frequent articles published in The Spoke condemning the Government’s stance on fees. However, it is also important to have face to face conversations with the government so that the specific needs of students are addressed rather than solely communicating an unfocused sense of anger.

Right. Where to begin with this mess?

As i've said, I am not affiliated with FEE in any way, so what follows is not a complaint from FEE. What follows is a critical reading from a final year music student.

NUIMSU wrote:

FEE criticised the Students’ Union’s decision to talk with Education Minister Batt O’ Keefe.

Lies. They were angry - as were a lot of students - that the SU, fawning to a minister, didn't tell anyone that the minister was coming. Whether this was part of a backroom deal with the college (''We don't want any fuss lads, we need that funding'') or not I don't know. And they may disagree with FEE - to a large extent I do as well - but to deny them and other groups the knowledge, and with it the opportunity to protest, is to be a pretty bad SU. FEE members here pay their registration fee every year just like I do, and the SU witheld information of interest to them because it was of interest to them, and would in the article above rather misrepresent some of the students they serve than be honest about their motives. ''Look how clean my bedroom is, Mr. President''

Few students are interested in Irish politics. The ones who are tend to run for election and become part of the Students'Union. The Minister met with you to make you feel special because the local elections are coming up. Get over it.

NUIMSU wrote:

The Union’s reasons for this are simple, whilst much is being done to demonstrate students anger at the prospect of tuition fees by way of public protests, very little is being done in terms of sitting down with the government to actually discuss realistic plans as to how the non-introduction of fees can be accomplished.

The writing in this part just annoyed me. Writing is not speech. You can't just employ a comma wherever you would take a breath while speaking. Commas are like socks: best used in pairs. When in doubt use a full stop.

better sentence wrote:

The Union’s reasons for this are simple. Whilst much is being done to demonstrate students anger[...]

That's a bit neater. Now, apostrophes to demonstrate 'belonging':

better sentence wrote:

The Union’s reasons for this are simple. Whilst much is being done to demonstrate students' anger[...]

Better. Now, change 'whilst' to 'while' (no need for it, it's just there to look fancy)

better sentence wrote:

The Union’s reasons for this are simple. While much is being done to demonstrate students' anger[...]

Good stuff. We have a complete first sentence. You go girls.

Finally, while I agree with the SU - and any rational person - that student organisations, whether for or against fees, and holding public protests in combination, must meet their government face to face, there is no need to be such asses about it. If you are going to be asses about it, at least learn the basics of writing. If you're meeting a minister on my behalf, I don't want you looking like an idiot. I can do that myself. This isn't the internet.

redenemyjoe

Best Poster, Bravo.

PrivateEye

Good posts in here.

Personally, I ultimately do want our S.U to sit down with Batt. Ideally, the USI plus some chosen representation for non-USI universities will sit down with the Department and hammer this one out. The issue isn't meeting them, it's how and when you meet them. It damages the student movement when an S.U settle for something as tokenistic as this which only ever took place because Batt travelled to Kildare for a photo-shoot.

If the Student Unions get to talk to the Minister, in a real way, I think that'd be one of the biggest victories for the student movement in a long time.