What are the reasons a horse can be put out to stud?

Nulty

Mostly I ask because of New Approach. Should he not have been allowed to race another year or is he injured or aare they affraid he'll break a leg...? What is it?

Another queastion.

When is a colt a stallion?

ArmaniJeanss

Nulty wrote: »

Mostly I ask because of New Approach. Should he not have been allowed to race another year or is he injured or aare they affraid he'll break a leg...? What is it?

Another queastion.

When is a colt a stallion?

A colt is a stallion from the time he covers his first mate. The stallion will generally have been retired from racing, though there are a couple of exceptions who continue to race (these will tend not be topclass horses though).

Regarding your first question.
To an extent its economics.
Lets say a successful topclass bluebred 3year old can cover 150 mares at €25,000.
Thats an income of €4M a year for 3 breeding seasons (before his first crop races) so he has a shortterm value to his owners of €12-€15M.

Race on as a 4year old (and beyond) and one of the following 3 things will happen.

a) He'll win a bit and lose and a bit. The competition is so fierce at the top level that the chances are he'll pick up a couple of more Group1s, be placed in a few more and maybe be off the pace in a few more. He might be beaten by the following years Derby/Guineas winner in some of the open races.
He'll still be a topclass horse but the air of invincibility is gone.

He picks up a €1M in prizemoney but his stud fee at the end of his 4yearold season is just €20000, and he retires at a time when horses who have beaten him are also going to stud, and his owners have to work far harder on getting the 150 topclass mares for him. A few mares owners look elsewhere, and the overall quality of his book is down a notch, which in 3 years affects the quality of his first set of runners.
Overall the value to his owners is €10-€12M.

b) He has a fantastic season, wins 6 Group1s on the bounce in Europe at distances from a 8F to a mile and a half, before switching to Dirt to trounce the best of the Yanks in the Breeders Club classic. Retires to stud with a full book at €60000.
Value to his owners €30-€40M.

c) Its a disaster, niggly injuries and a suspect temperament see him race 3 times with a 3rd at Royal Ascot his best performance. Question marks surface over the quality of his form as a 3yearold and people start querying whether theres a bit too much stamina in his pedigree.
Initially stands at €15K but the book isn't full and by season 2 he is standing at €8K and being marketed to National Hunt mares. By season 4 he is offloaded to Turkey.
Value to his owners. €1-2M.

a) is the most likely thing to happen, so unless an owner feels that there is a big chance that he might be in column b) then its not consider worth the risk.
Take the money and run has tradionally been the motto, though Coolmore are thankfully for us racing fans starting to 'take the risk' more and more over the last few years.

finbarrk

Well answered there Armani.
A simple answer to the op's question is any horse can go to stud if the owner thinks he will get mares.

Nulty

Jeez, I'm flattered and very impressed by the response to the question! Thanks armani.

Thats how I figured it but I hadn't thought it out so much. Basically its a 'double or nothing' situation for the owner. From a purely sporting point of view its a shame theres so much money involved in the fate of a potentially 'All Conquering' horse's career. As a romantic in these situations, I'd like to see a horse with as much quality to see it out to the end, as it were. I think everyone that doesn't have e15M on the line. As far as I'm concerned its not just sport, it's the 'Sport of Kings'. Doesn't this practice just seem like abdication?

Finbark, the scope of the question was:

Why would you send a horse with so much left in him to walk around a field?

finbarrk wrote: »

any horse can go to stud if the owner thinks he will get mares.

I can figure that one out on my own!:rolleyes:

minty16

This is why I enjoy National Hunt racing so much more..
The weirdest case that I though anyway, was Holy Roman Emperor,(afaik) who had a fantastic 2 year old season and was bound for big things in 07 but instead went to replace George Washington at stud..

NewApproach

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Lets say a successful topclass bluebred 3year old can cover 150 mares at €25,000.

Pity though he can't cover 150 mares

NewApproach

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Race on as a 4year old (and beyond) and one of the following 3 things will happen.

a) He'll win a bit and lose and a bit. The competition is so fierce at the top level that the chances are he'll pick up a couple of more Group1s, be placed in a few more and maybe be off the pace in a few more. He might be beaten by the following years Derby/Guineas winner in some of the open races.
He'll still be a topclass horse but the air of invincibility is gone.

He picks up a €1M in prizemoney but his stud fee at the end of his 4yearold season is just €20000, and he retires at a time when horses who have beaten him are also going to stud, and his owners have to work far harder on getting the 150 topclass mares for him. A few mares owners look elsewhere, and the overall quality of his book is down a notch, which in 3 years affects the quality of his first set of runners.
Overall the value to his owners is €10-€12M.

b) He has a fantastic season, wins 6 Group1s on the bounce in Europe at distances from a 8F to a mile and a half, before switching to Dirt to trounce the best of the Yanks in the Breeders Club classic. Retires to stud with a full book at €60000.
Value to his owners €30-€40M.

c) Its a disaster, niggly injuries and a suspect temperament see him race 3 times with a 3rd at Royal Ascot his best performance. Question marks surface over the quality of his form as a 3yearold and people start querying whether theres a bit too much stamina in his pedigree.
Initially stands at €15K but the book isn't full and by season 2 he is standing at €8K and being marketed to National Hunt mares. By season 4 he is offloaded to Turkey.
Value to his owners. €1-2M.

a) is the most likely thing to happen, so unless an owner feels that there is a big chance that he might be in column b) then its not consider worth the risk.
Take the money and run has tradionally been the motto, though Coolmore are thankfully for us racing fans starting to 'take the risk' more and more over the last few years.

Hurricane Run a recent case in point. A poor 4 year old season probably cost his owners roughly €5m or more

Nulty

Minty16:

Are you saying that HRE was put to stud because the owners needed a horse at stud. When GW was found to be sterile, they took another horse off the track instead to balance the books?

minty16

I think that was pretty much the case, although feel free to correct me. HRE was also sired by Danehill and thus he was seen as an ideal replacement for GW.
Seems a shame for a leading 2 year old who won 4 races in 2006 to be put to stud for that sake.

Nulty

TBH minty I havent got a clue, I only got into racing a few months ago:o

But as the saying goes: "Money talks and bull**** walks":cool:

ArmaniJeanss

minty16 wrote: »

I think that was pretty much the case, although feel free to correct me. HRE was also sired by Danehill and thus he was seen as an ideal replacement for GW.

It would be interesting to see how many of the outside mares booked to the infertile GW actually did end up using Holy Roman Emperor instead. (Obviously Coolmore would have had to send some of their own mares to HRE to be seen to be supporting him)

The whole thing looked a bit fishy to me, I suspected at the time that HRE was not training well and that they were more than happy to have a handy excuse to retire him.