Which tele with MPEG4 and Freesat

cltt97

Hi,

I've come a long way since yesterday afternoon when I thought freeview was freesat, but thanks to a lot of people and a lot of reading I think I've got some reasonable idea now. Anyways, after reading all the posts I figured that I should either get A

Panasonic TX32LZD81 (B) or a
Sony KDL 32V4500 or V5500

So far so good, so I'm thinking I'm going for the panasonic, but now I read on joinfreesat that this model is discontinued. The only other two 32" freesat models are TX-L32V10 and TX-L32G10 - the panasonic website doesn't provide manuals for these yet and the freesat page links to the LZD81 manual, so I have no idea if these have MPEG4 tuners or not. There is also an LG32LF7700 but again no info availalbe.

Is the 81model still availalbe anywhere or should I just go with a sony? Or should I just get a nice MPEG4 compatible tele and buy a freesat box? Would prefer inbuilt as have DVD recorder/X-Box and NTL Box already, don't want to add another!

What I really want is to connect my downstairs tele to NTL and Freesat - want to keep NTL as like all the discovery channels and living and things like that and from what I gather if I plug in an aerial I should be able to pick up Test DTT in Dublin and have Freesat only in my bedroom, for which I'm probably going to buy a Freesat receiver as have LCD/DVD 22"combo tele in bedroom at the moment and don't want bigger. Also have two sat dishes on my roof from previous owner so plenty of options I think...

So any ideas about Panasonic/Sony or any other recommendations? Here is brain-fried after all of this!

byte

MODEdit: Thread moved to Satellite.

Will be hard to get a Panasonic, they announced last month that they were no longer making Plasmas/lcds anymore.

I have a 42" sammy and just bought a Humax HD Freesat box, it will be hard to find any tvs with integrated freesat in ireland as we were not intended to be using freesat.

netwhizkid

cisk wrote:

Will be hard to get a Panasonic, they announced last month that they were no longer making Plasmas/lcds anymore.

I have a 42" sammy and just bought a Humax HD Freesat box, it will be hard to find any tvs with integrated freesat in ireland as we were not intended to be using freesat.

Pioneer are to stop manufacturing TV not Panasonic as far as I know. Pioneer were the best Tv but were simply too expensive for even the most liberal of wallets. Panasonic are in 2nd place and make great Tvs but are dearer but worth every penny. The Pioneer Kuro are to last to be manufactured and it is a case of mass production and cheaper crappier goods plus the labelling of Plasma screens as planet killers by the eco-leftists because they burn a few more watts.

Plasma Televisions are a superior technology to LCD and the Pioneer Kuro represented the absolute pinnacle, I saw one in Saturn Hansa in Germany two months ago and it was absolutely stunning and if you could make one big enough and show a door I would walk into it as it was hard to distinguish the picture quality for reality. It cost €5,000 and these pricings coupled to the economic depression of the last two years have seen Pioneer withdraw from the market and it is sad really as they were innovators and made some great albeit expensive stuff.

Panasonic are going nowhere though and will be making Tvs when this depression story is told to our grandkids.

netwhizkid

netwhizkid wrote: »

Pioneer are to stop manufacturing TV not Panasonic as far as I know. Pioneer were the best Tv but were simply too expensive for even the most liberal of wallets. Panasonic are in 2nd place and make great Tvs but are dearer but worth every penny. The Pioneer Kuro are to last to be manufactured and it is a case of mass production and cheaper crappier goods plus the labelling of Plasma screens as planet killers by the eco-leftists because they burn a few more watts.

Plasma Televisions are a superior technology to LCD and the Pioneer Kuro represented the absolute pinnacle, I saw one in Saturn Hansa in Germany two months ago and it was absolutely stunning and if you could make one big enough and show a door I would walk into it as it was hard to distinguish the picture quality for reality. It cost €5,000 and these pricings coupled to the economic depression of the last two years have seen Pioneer withdraw from the market and it is sad really as they were innovators and made some great albeit expensive stuff.

Panasonic are going nowhere though and will be making Tvs when this depression story is told to our grandkids.

Your right mate, got mixed up there. Yep shame the pioneers blew everything out of the water.

watty

Satellite, Cable or TV aerial can use MPEG2 or MPEG4

All MPEG4 receivers do MPEG2 also.

Irish Terrestrial is not merely "MPEG4". But DTT/DVB-t

Newer Satellite Tuners (DVB-s and DVB-s2) can do MPEG4 and MPEG2 but not Terrestrial (via Aerial) at all.

Cable Digital = DVB-c, DVB-c2
Digital Terrestrial via Aerial = DVB-t, DVB-t2 (not yet in use) aka DTT
Satellite (via dish) = DVB-s, DVB-s2

USA TV terrestrial Digital (DTT) is incompatible ASTC/ 8VSB system

All can use MPEG2 or MPEG4

All can be various resolutions, SD or HD. (there are 5 SD resolutions and 2 HD resolutions and 3 frame rates). SD = 576i lines 25fps in Europe, 480i lines 30fps in USA/Japan. HD Europe is 1920x1080i 25 fps.

HD is ONLY 16:9 Widescreen. Roughly square pixels, not animorphic.
SD is either 4:3 or else stretches the dots for 16:9 (same number of pixels, aka animorphic)
SD can be MPEG2 or recently MPEG4. HD is all MPEG4, early days some was MPEG2

cltt97

Thanks for all the replies, although I'm not sure if I'm not a bit more confused now after reading the last text!
From what I gather I'm I should be looking for a MPEG4/DDT-DVB-t digital tuner that also has inbuilt freesat. Somewhere else I read Ishould also look for MHEG-5 for interactive services such as text on digital. Anything else I need to look for? It's like going on a treasurehunt! This information is hardly ever displayed....
Not sure I understand "HD is all MPEG4" - does that mean that all the true HD teles have this and I only need to look for DDT-DVB-t??? (Sorry if these questions are stupid, but I really am no whizz when it comes to that kind of stuff)

Anyways, other than the "hard to get" Panasonic and the Sony, keeping in mind the intended use (NTL-Cable and Free-Sat and "futureproof for DTT"), are there any other 32"teles anyone knows of, that would do?

netwhizkid

cltt97 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies, although I'm not sure if I'm not a bit more confused now after reading the last text!
From what I gather I'm I should be looking for a MPEG4/DDT-DVB-t digital tuner that also has inbuilt freesat. Somewhere else I read Ishould also look for MHEG-5 for interactive services such as text on digital. Anything else I need to look for? It's like going on a treasurehunt! This information is hardly ever displayed....
Not sure I understand "HD is all MPEG4" - does that mean that all the true HD teles have this and I only need to look for DDT-DVB-t??? (Sorry if these questions are stupid, but I really am no whizz when it comes to that kind of stuff)

Anyways, other than the "hard to get" Panasonic and the Sony, keeping in mind the intended use (NTL-Cable and Free-Sat and "futureproof for DTT"), are there any other 32"teles anyone knows of, that would do?

What you are looking for is a TV with integrated Freesat, DVB-T (for DTT) and MPEG4 & MHEG-5 capability.

Not all HD Tv's are MPEG4 infact the vast majority are not, MPEG4 is the codec that is used for HD broadcasts but the TV usually never does the decoding (except iDTV's) and the decoding is done externally by either the Sky+ HD Box, BluRay player etc. The digital signal is then delivered to the TV via HDMI cable for display.

The TV's you need are either the Panasonic or Sony with Freesat built in, these are known as iDTV (Integrated Digital Television) as they have the built in tuners and MPEG4 codec built in.

Most tvs sold in Ireland and the UK over the previous years have been MPEG2 capable. MPEG2 decodes the standard definition broadcasts while MPEG4 is used for HD but can also handle standard def and RTÉ when launched will be Standard Def only but the technology is future proofed so the decision to go for MPEG4 was a really good one and unusual considering the typical Irish way of doing things.

FREESAT HD broadcasts in MPEG4 and uses the MHEG-5 middleware which is used for the interactive features like the red button and digital teletext, no more ok signal but gobeldy gook aertel.

The FREESAT HD capable IDTV's support DVB-S (Digital Video Broadcasting Satellite) and DVB-T (Digital Video Broadcasting Terrestrial) and have a satellite and terrestrial tuner which feeds the signal into the TV's processing engine and the TV having MPEG4 and MHEG-5 built-in means it can decode MPEG4 and MHEG-5 from the Terrestrial signal also.

These TVs are built for the UK market and it is only a coincidence of FREESAT HD using the same codecs as Irish DTT that makes them such a great choice for use here, otherwise a set top box would be needed for Irish DTT. However Irish retailers are not given these to sell here as the FREESAT product is aimed primarily at the UK market. These TV's must be sourced from either the UK or Northern Ireland, there are retailers that online that ship to the ROI and you will find that the prices are much lower compared to the under spec'd higher priced Irish equivalent.

Popeleo

OP, the Sony models are just freeview, not Freesat. But they are Mpeg4 for receiving DTT.

I think it's only Panasonic doing both at present - but the biggest they come is 37", so I just got the Sony 40V5500.

netwhizkid

Popeleo wrote: »

OP, the Sony models are just freeview, not Freesat. But they are Mpeg4 for receiving DTT.

I think it's only Panasonic doing both at present - but the biggest they come is 37", so I just got the Sony 40V5500.

You can get up to a 50" Panasonic with integrated Freesat, MPEG4 and MHEG-5 in Plasma. Not sure about LCD though.

Apogee

Panasonic have a new range of Freesat TVs, both LCD and Plasma.
http://www.joinfreesat.co.uk/index.php/confirmation-of-panasonic-television-range

However, there is, at present, a problem with many of the current Panasonic Freesat TVs which are now longer able to scan for the Irish DTT channels. This may or may not be rectified in future, so you should probably hold off buying a Panasonic until the situation is clarified.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055542668

There is a thread on MPEG4 capable TVs here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055420793

cltt97

Thanks Apogee, I thought I had learnt all I needed and now this new issue with not fully DVB compliant MPEG4 chips to add to my dilemma!
I was thinking of going up north to get the TV cheaper, but would I be better off buying one down here that says it picks up Irish DDT (powercity does that)? I've noticed that some models (especially Sony) come with all sorts of letters at the end E and U (which seem to have MPEG4) but the ones that don't don't seem to have it.... very confusing.
I've been recommended to buy this one http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/3/32pfl5604h_12/32pfl5604h_12_pss_aen.pdf with a Humex PVR.
Or to go with the new Panasonic G10, but reading that post about the noncompliant chips I'm now thinking maybe not to go with Panasonic at all. There is also an LG freesat model which supposedly has MPEG4 - LG 32LF7700

Where have the days gone where one would go into a shop any buy a tele based on price and looks alone!!!

podgeandrodge

cltt97 wrote: »

Where have the days gone where one would go into a shop any buy a tele based on price and looks alone!!!

You could just buy a TV with built in mpeg4 dtt and buy a little freesat box to connect to it, would widen your tele options. The Samsung LE19B450, LE32B450, LE37B450 etc receive the Irish DTT and you just attach the freesat receiver.. At least that's what I did.

Edit: oops, just saw you have already considered this option at the beginning of the thread!

a clanger

I was buying for the old man and had the exact same problem as you ie the panny with the inbuilt freesat or the Sony 32v4500. The Panasonic was diffficult to source and expensive as it was end of the line and the dealer said the replecement models would be around the £1000 stg mark. We went with the sony which we got delivered for €550 from pixmania (since heard there customer service is ...a challenge if anything goes wrong). we also bought the Humax Foxsat HDR for freesat and recording. The Sony is simply stunning. A friend has the 32v4000 and says they do not compare. I cannot recommend it highly enough and the six nations in high def was just what the old man wanted. Hope the above helps you decision making..

this was the sony we bought

http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/1102570/art/sony/bravia-kdl-32v4500-lcd-te.html

cltt97

The 32v4500 retails in powercity for 599, so for the peace of mind it might be worth considering paying a bit extra. Decisions, decisions...
The full HD model KDL32V5500U 1080p MPEG4 Sony
780 in Powercity
779 in DID
709 Pixmania SONY KDL-32V5500E LCD Television
707 Komplett.ie

Would it be worth going for the bit extra and does anyone know can you haggle with Powercity?

Edit: actually in powercity for 749 now

200motels

You could consider this TV from Richer Sounds in Belfast. I think it's 749 euro.Philips 42PFL5604H 42" Full HD 1080p pixel plus digital freeview LCD TV .

The latest addition to the Philips LCD range.

Experience brilliant performance with a Full HD 1080p display. Combined with a powerful Pixel Plus HD Engine and fantastic invisible sound, this flat screen TV will never let you down.


MPEG4 Compatible.

Product Features

• Pixel Plus HD for better details, depth and clarity bringing outstanding vivid and razor sharp pictures.
• Full HD LCD display, with a 1920x1080p resolution.
• 28.9 billion colors for brilliant natural images.
• Dynamic contrast 50000:1.
• Invisible speakers with incredible surround.
• 2.1 channel surround with subwoofer for deep bass.
• 2x10W RMS audio power.
• 3 HDMI inputs with Easylink for a full HD connection.
• PC-input allows you to use your TV as a PC monitor.
• USB for fantastic multimedia playback Ready for digital.
• MPEG4 HDTV reception via DVB-T and DVB-C tuner with CI+*.

watty

An HDTV doesn't need to be able to to MPEG2 or MPEG4. Those are codecs used for compression of files or transmissions.

If you connect to a Blue Ray player (BD) or HDTV set box (terrestrial or cable or Satellite) it does the MPEG decompressing and feeds an uncompressed HD signal via HDMI, like a PC DVI signal. If the HDTV set has tuners, they may not even support HD at all! (There are HDTVs with only Analogue tuners, or Cable/Satellite/Terrestrial MPEG2 only).

Only Japan ever used Analogue HDTV, and only on Satellite. It was 1125 lines. Just as the USA analogue 525 lines gives 480 visible lines and Europe analogue 625 gives 576 visible lines, the Japanese analog 1125 gave 1080 visible lines. That is where the STUPID number for HD resolution came from. Europe experimented in mid 1990s with a Hybrid Analogue/Digital HDTV 1250 lines (1152), which is perfect for European HDTV as regular TV lines are just doubled (576 x2 = 1152).

The japanese 1125 analogue (MUSE) system used either 1035i or 1080i visible lines.

USA/Japan 480 x 2 = 960 lines.
So both 720p and 1080i are awkward stupid compromises for rescalling 480i or 576i SD up to to watch on an HDTV.

Many cheaper (1366 x768 native or 1280 x 720 native) HD sets and some 1920x1080 (i or p) "full HD") thus do not display non-HD as well as top of the range non-HD CRT.

Since non-HD LCDs have a fixed 720 x 576 screen and SD TV is variable horizontal resolution(even digital is 320, 384, 544, 704 or 720 horizontally), all SD LCDs and SD plasmas give poorer SD pictures than decent CRT or even cheap 1366x768 "HD ready" TVs. Add also that HD is never anamorphic and the SD TV (320, 384, 544, 704 or 720 horizontally x 576 vertically) is either 4:3 OR 16:9 and then on fixed pixel WS TVs (LCD/Plasma) you have even more quality reduction on 4:3 pictures.

The "HD Ready" and "Full HD" stickers on TVs are pretty worthless.
"HD Ready" means it will DISPLAY 720p and 1920i, but says nothing about how good the image quality is. I've seen a 480 line plasma with "HD Ready" sticker as it could downsample and display HD. (But so can any HD SET box!).

"Full HD" means the screen is 1920 x1080p Sadly this tells you nothing about how well it will show 1080i or by what method (All European HD broadcasts). How well is does regular TV and does not even mean it has a Digital Tuner! Nor does it tell you if a Digital tuner does MPEG2 or MPEG4. It basically ONLY means that via HDMI, a PS3 or BluRay player in Progressive Mode or a PC graphics card at 1920x1080p 50Hz (most PCs prefer 60Hz or higher) will work perfectly. It implies nothing else about quality.

cltt97

Many thanks for this Watty, I thought I had it figured out, but Jeez I didn't realise there was so much to televisions!
You know what I really want is a good reliable tele that will last me and a good option for whatever may or may not happen if that's even possible. I am going to get a freesat box, I don't think I'm going to invest in Blueray anytime soon, I have a good DVD recorder and we play the X-Box.
So from what you're saying full HD is not really all it's made out to be so if I'm caught up on a decision between HD Ready and Full HD I'm looking at the wrong thing. So in your expert opinion, in judging what TV to buy, what should I really look for?

cltt97

Any advice anyone? I'm overloaded with information and although I understand it all, I don't know how to use it to go forward.

I'm contemplating the new Panasonic G10 - as it has inbuilt sat, but I've read the thread with problems picking up trial DTT. Also it has no UHF/VHF tuners, but I was wondering would my DVD recorder pick them up - I want to retain the analogue signal for my DVD recorder, as my digital NTL does not record.

Alternatively, I would look at the Sony KFLV5500 or W5500 (this one has slightly better features, mainly 100HZ vs 50 in the Vmodel) and get a Humax Box with it.

Either option is quite expensive and i want to make sure I'm choosing the right thing taking all the info into account.