Puncture on first run with bike, noobie disappearing Presta valve problem...

pburns

Collected new bike today, got Slime guard tube protector installed (as discussed in another thread). The ride was bone rattlingly loose (shook the front reflective thing loose) so I released A LITTLE pressure. These Presta valve things are new to me, look a bit delicate.

Anyway, took off on a 12 mile circle just to try it out. 9 miles in, 3 miles from home (and just as it started to rain), the rear tyre deflated. Whipped my new pump onto the valve, started pumping. Tyre inflated but when I went to take it off the feckin valve 'DISAPPEARED'!!:o:mad:

Needless to say I was going no further...

So embarrassing and all as it is - what is the procedure with these valves and where the hell is my valve gone? Did it blow off or fall into the tube or what?

I must say there was a bit of 'red mist' involved as it was just starting to rain. Quite disappointed TBH, was looking forward to having the bike for the weekend...

Greyspoke

That wasn't a very encouraging start was it?!
What probably happened with the valve is that you managed to snap off the top of it - they're quite delicate and with pumps that push directly onto the valve (most of them these days), it's easy to bend the top of the valve if you don't take care to keep the pump straight. When they bend, they then snap off altogether quite easily - a real pain but I think it happens to everyone at some point.
The initial ride that you said felt very harsh is something that, to a point, you just get used to as narrow tyres pumped hard will always feel like that. There's a good chance that if you let a bit too much air out you got a pinch puncture when you hit a bump and the tube got pinched between the tyre and rim.
Keep at it and always carry at least one spare tube!

victorcarrera

Keep your tyres inflated to the pressure as indicated on the tyre wall to avoid pinching the tube when you hit a bump or small stone. Give yourself some time to get used to the discomfort of cycling a road bike over rough roads. If you have to ride over a bad section of road go light on the saddle and use your hands and legs as shock absorbers as this also helps to avoid pinching the tube. To avoid damaging the valve when inflating the tube with a hand pump, hold the end of the pump with your fingers while gripping the tyre with your thumb. This prevents the pump moving relative to the wheel and reduces the risk of shearing the valve. Always carry at least 2 spare tubes good quality tyre levers and a pump.

pburns

Thanks for the responses.

What about my problem losing the valve though? Did it go back into the tube or 'blow off'? Can't find it anywhere nearby...

I presume the correct procedure is to
(i.) loosen the nut on the valve
(ii.) attach pump
(iii.) use the lever to tighten
(iv.) carefully inflate
(v.) loosen lever and take off pump and re-tighten screw.

It is at this latter stage where I took off the pump that the valve disappeared.

I guess it's a matter of getting comfortable removing wheels (including back) and replacing tube on the go. That and proper inflation to avoid pinching...

Greyspoke

I guess the missing bit of valve is either stuck inside the pump or it fell out and is lying beside the road . You can replace the valve cores but if the tube was punctured it's probably not worth bothering.
Your sequence is correct. Make sure you push the pump fully onto the valve head and as victorcarrera said, just hold it firmly.

pburns

Valve was actually INSIDE the tube:mad:. In fact it was inside both tubes because I tried pumping the front tyre as well...

Had to get 2 new tubes (and a spare). The valves on replacements don't look quite as delicate. Ride is so hard that refectors on front wheel spoke and handlebars worked loose (on tarmac...) Presumably the assembly in shop was a bit rushed. They were shortstaffed as the manager was injured and couldn't help out.

victorcarrera

pburns wrote: »

Valve was actually INSIDE the tube:mad:. In fact it was inside both tubes because I tried pumping the front tyre as well...

Had to get 2 new tubes (and a spare). The valves on replacements don't look quite as delicate. Ride is so hard that refectors on front wheel spoke and handlebars worked loose (on tarmac...) Presumably the assembly in shop was a bit rushed. They were shortstaffed as the manager was injured and couldn't help out.

A wild guess here as I've never heard of this before. Are you attempting to inflate a presta tube using a shrader pump and pushing the valve into the tube? Some pumps have rubber seals that can be reversed to inflate either type. Try reversing it.
Secondly handlebars. I wouldnt be happy with that and would get it checked out by a different mechanic and have the headset checked also.

Civilian_Target

What's wrong is simple. There should be a little round attachement that screws onto the base of the valve to stop it falling into the tyre. If you don't attach this, there's always the possiblity of the valve falling in, because to install the inner tube in first place, the valve has to be narrower than the hole in the wheel.

Tyres are not complicated. Pump them to the max pressure written on the tyre, and when you connect them at the start you generally need to let a little air out of the valve before you start pumping. Re-inflate to max pressure every few hundred km, or monthly.

The best puncture protection is well-inflated tyres. The second best puncture protection is puncture-resistant tyres

Civilian_Target

Maybe not clear... you need this bit
http://www.mediafire.com/?ckduqmnmjen

pburns

:mad:2 MORE PUNCTURES AFTER 4 MILE POST-HANGOVER SPIN!!!:mad:

The puncture I did see (left other one into Halfords) is at the bottom of the tyre where it rolls on the road - right on the join.

I'm beginning to think
a.) tyres no suitable for the gravelly, slightly rough country roads
b.) the slime tyre protector is having some negative effect and contributing to pinching the tube
or
c.) the standard Bontrager tyres are ****e!

or...

...all of the above.

I'm considering cutting my losses and flogging the thing right now, sticking with trusty mountain bike...

Civilian_Target

Well... it's pretty simple. What are you looking for? If it's just no punctures, fit the puncture resistant tyres and make sure you keep them at max pressure: they won't fail you.

I do mostly on-road but about 8km a week across a gravel/muck forest path, and have never had any difficultly with my 700cx32 Schwalbe Marathons.

From what you're describing, it just sounds to me like you have an extremely bad tyre setup.
Once you have decent wheels, and you are sure nothing's catching, you just need two things:



+

zzzzzzzz

pburns wrote: »

:mad:2 MORE PUNCTURES AFTER 4 MILE POST-HANGOVER SPIN!!!:mad:

The puncture I did see (left other one into Halfords) is at the bottom of the tyre where it rolls on the road - right on the join.

I'm beginning to think
a.) tyres no suitable for the gravelly, slightly rough country roads
b.) the slime tyre protector is having some negative effect and contributing to pinching the tube
or
c.) the standard Bontrager tyres are ****e!

or...

...all of the above.

I'm considering cutting my losses and flogging the thing right now, sticking with trusty mountain bike...

I'd say the standard bontrager tyres are fairly sh1te alright. Would consider upgrading if I were you. Although that amount of punctures is ridiculous - there must be something else wrong.

Are both the latest punctures on the same wheel?

What PSI did you pump to?

Poncherello

Civilian_Target wrote: »

Well... it's pretty simple. What are you looking for? If it's just no punctures, fit the puncture resistant tyres and make sure you keep them at max pressure: they won't fail you.

I do mostly on-road but about 8km a week across a gravel/muck forest path, and have never had any difficultly with my 700cx32 Schwalbe Marathons.

From what you're describing, it just sounds to me like you have an extremely bad tyre setup.
Once you have decent wheels, and you are sure nothing's catching, you just need two things:



+

how much are those tyres sound like they are perfect for Gael Force race ?
Presume u are fitting them to standard road bike wheels ?

pburns

Civilian_Target wrote: »

Well... it's pretty simple. What are you looking for? If it's just no punctures, fit the puncture resistant tyres and make sure you keep them at max pressure: they won't fail you.

I do mostly on-road but about 8km a week across a gravel/muck forest path, and have never had any difficultly with my 700cx32 Schwalbe Marathons.

From what you're describing, it just sounds to me like you have an extremely bad tyre setup.
Once you have decent wheels, and you are sure nothing's catching, you just need two things:

aidan.offbeat wrote: »

I'd say the standard bontrager tyres are fairly sh1te alright. Would consider upgrading if I were you. Although that amount of punctures is ridiculous - there must be something else wrong.

Are both the latest punctures on the same wheel?

What PSI did you pump to?

Had it pumped to the designated 110PSI last night and got 2 punctures - front and rear. As I said, one I saw was right on the join where tyre meets road and nowhere near the slime protector lapping point.

The 700cx32 Bontrager Racelite tyres claim to be 'Triple Case, Triple Puncture Resistant'. User reviews I've seen have been pretty positive
http://www.cyclingforums.com/archive/index.php/t-239162.html
http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-309961.html

I'll take out the tube protector as a first step. Maybe friction is an issue. If these's such a thing as stronger tube rubber I'll try that. The Schwalbe Marathons seem to have a good reputation for durability so that'll have to be a consideration too. I'd have to be sure they are demonstably better than the Bonragers though. Reading up on them they do sound heavy and hardy - no problems with that.

I've done 100 miles recently on the same roads with crappy old Bontrager mountain bike tyres with no problems (touch wood). Completely different PSI etc. I know.

zzzzzzzz

Sounds crazy. You said it's a new bike - bring it back to the shop and get them to take a look at it. They might spot something you didn't.

Lumen

pburns wrote: »

I'll take out the tube protector as a first step. Maybe friction is an issue.

Talc? KY?

Civilian_Target

pburns wrote: »

I'll take out the tube protector as a first step. Maybe friction is an issue. If these's such a thing as stronger tube rubber I'll try that. The Schwalbe Marathons seem to have a good reputation for durability so that'll have to be a consideration too. I'd have to be sure they are demonstably better than the Bonragers though. Reading up on them they do sound heavy and hardy - no problems with that.

Yep, good move. Tube protector on puncture proof tyres is a bit like wearing 2 condoms.
Another very obvious question, are your brake blocks touching off your tyres at any point in the turn?

pburns

Civilian_Target wrote: »

Yep, good move. Tube protector on puncture proof tyres is a bit like wearing 2 condoms.
Another very obvious question, are your brake blocks touching off your tyres at any point in the turn?

No brake obstruction and the punctures I've taken off have both been at the bottom where the tube protector is supposed to be doing it's stuff. Just looking at the front puncture tonight - it's a hole right opposite the valve.

Interestingly nearby, inside the tyre there was a slight 'scarring' or scratch (on the inside of tyre). There was a strong fold in the tube protector when I took it out (presumably at this point,)so I think perhaps this problem at least was caused by the slime protector. Looks like a hole more than a cut but still think the protector had something to do with it.

sexpot

I'd recommed specialized armadillos myself. I cycle into college most days and it's all over crap road tbh and cycle lanes (full of glass etc) so I decided it was time to invest. They have a kevlar layer which protects you from all sorts. I find them great. Here's a link;

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=42102

The whole range;

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCEqSection.jsp?sid=EquipTires700_Flat&eid=355

The Nimbus might be ideal for you?

Oh yeah, you can get them in Cycleways in Parnell street for €27.

pburns

sexpot wrote: »

I'd recommed specialized armadillos myself. I cycle into college most days and it's all over crap road tbh and cycle lanes (full of glass etc) so I decided it was time to invest. They have a kevlar layer which protects you from all sorts. I find them great. Here's a link;

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=42102

The whole range;

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCEqSection.jsp?sid=EquipTires700_Flat&eid=355

The Nimbus might be ideal for you?

Oh yeah, you can get them in Cycleways in Parnell street for €27.

The Bontranger racelites I have are supposed to have a Kevlar belt and get decent reviews:
http://www.cyclingforums.com/archive/index.php/t-239162.html

Haven't had much time this week but am taking out the Slime tube protectors. As I said the ride was rock-hard so maybe this protector+kevlar+>100psi do not happy bedfellows make. New tyres will have to be considered in due course.

Incidentally, despite mending dozens of punctures as a youngster on BMX and moutain bikes I am not having much luck mending tubes. Patches always seem a little large for the narrower tubes and that transparant backing seems to pull the patch no matter how long I leave it.:mad: If I was getting a sensible number of punctures I wouldn't even bother, just replace the tube.

NeilMcEoigheann

are you waiting for the glue to dry before applying the patch?
i would bring the bike back soon to get everything redone just because you may cause damage if you leave the bike set up incorrectly

pburns

NeilMcEoigheann wrote: »

are you waiting for the glue to dry before applying the patch?
i would bring the bike back soon to get everything redone just because you may cause damage if you leave the bike set up incorrectly

What set-up issues could cause damage?

I took out the tube protector strips and have travelled almost 50 miles over the weekend with no problems. I'm not saying that is a solution (fingers crossed etc.), it could just be down to better luck for the time being. Incidentally the new tubes I put in are 700x32-38 which seem slightly wider. In retrospect getting 700x32 would probably leave me less susceptible to pinch-flats?

Anyways, early days yet, I'm not counting my chickens. I'm hoping the tube-protectors caused it by moving around inside the tyre. As I said I there is evidence to suggest this was a factor in at least one of the 3 punctures. Anyone any experience of these? Would stiffish Kevlar-banded tyres be incompatible with them to some extent I wonder? Seems unlikely but you never know...