LGBT Rights and European Elections

Annasopra

ILGA Europe has a ten point pledge that they have asked all candidates to sign

http://www.ilga-europe.org/europe/campaigns_projects/ep2009/ilga_europe_s_european_parliament_elections_pledge

ILGA-Europe’s 2009 European Election Pledge summarises the key issues that we want to see advanced at the EU level over the next five years. These are:

1. Adopting ambitious EU legislation on equal treatment
I pledge to continue to support and to actively work towards the adoption of an EU multi-ground anti-discrimination directive as an essential step in ending the hierarchy of rights.

2. Ensuring the right to free movement in the EU for LGBT people
I pledge to ensure that lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people are able to exercise their right to free movement in the EU with their families, including by closely monitoring the implementation of the Freedom of Movement Directive and by supporting measures to increase mutual recognition of partnerships.

3. Increasing explicit recognition of transgender people’s rights
I pledge to call for explicit recognition of the rights of transgender people in EU law, including by ensuring adequate coverage of transgender people in future EU gender equality legislation and policy and by closely monitoring implementation of the Gender Equality Directives with regard to their coverage of transgender people.

4. Combating homophobia and transphobia through criminal law
I pledge to call for a Framework Decision on homophobic and transphobic violence, hate crime and hate speech following the recommendation issued in the legal study on homophobia of the EU Fundamental Rights Agency.

5. Promoting an inclusive definition of family
I pledge to promote a definition of family which recognises the diversity of family relationships, and to ensure that the needs of LGBT families are increasingly reflected in EU policy and legislation (e.g. the Parental Leave Directive).

6. Acting as the EU’s fundamental rights watchdog, including on LGBT rights
I pledge to hold EU Member States accountable to their human rights commitments and to be a voice against human rights violations targeting LGBT people in the EU (e.g. freedom of assembly, asylum of people at risk of persecution).

7. Protecting LGBT rights in Europe beyond the EU
I pledge to promote the human rights of LGBT people within the European Neighbourhood Policy, the EU Central Asia indicative programmes and Enlargement through political dialogue and recommending adoption of inclusive anti-discrimination laws.

8. Protecting LGBT rights in the world
I pledge to support Parliament resolutions and actions condemning human rights violations against LGBT people outside the EU and calling for the end of criminalisation of homosexuality.

9. Calling for an explicit commitment to fundamental rights from the new EU Commission
I pledge to prioritise the commitment to fundamental rights and equality in the approval of the new European Commission and to call for an explicit expression of this commitment by all the members of the EU Commission.

10. Ongoing commitment to the EU agenda in the area of non-discrimination and equality
I pledge to support programmes that ensure continued EU funding for effective and necessary action to combat discrimination and promote equality on the grounds of sexual orientation, gender identity and gender expression.

Annasopra

You can see which Irish politicians have signed here

http://www.ilga-europe.org/europe/campaigns_projects/ep2009/map/ireland

LookingFor

Not to hijack the thread, but with the elections coming up, I thought I'd do a survey of the partys' websites for information regarding their position on inclusion and equality wrt family and lgbt.

I'm not a political person at all, please bear that in mind. I don't have any affiliation to any party.

But I'm shocked at the apparent lack of policy there on the part of many of the parties, or if not that, the lack of accessibility to information regarding their policies.

Fianna Fail


No proper policy sections at all. Their issues page is pathetically short. This might explain a lot..

A search for 'gay' on their site returns just one result relating to funding for a gay community development group down in Cork. And that's it.

Fine Gael

Their policy stuff is not extensive at all on their site. Just a small menu with some links to a not very comprehensive list of things.

A search for 'gay', 'lesiban', 'homosexual' returns no relevant results (just a few re. Gay Mitchell.

So that's the two main parties in the country with NO information on their sites about lgbt policy, indeed with precious little information AT ALL on ANY policy.

Good going guys!

Labour

A better policy section than the others, but not very clear in addressing a wide range of specific issues.

However, their search is very good, and returns a plethora of relevant results, including a lengthy recent speech by Eamonn Gilmore on their LGBT support, which outlines their support for full rights being extended to gay people etc. etc. However, it's not clear that their approach to marriage isn't "seperate but equal"..in that he discusses prior moves by Labour to try and introduce civil union bills (not marriage).

Anyway, from an information access POV it's a big improvement on the first two.

The Green Party

Quite clear and comprehensive policy list, and it was easy to find the relevant section re. LGBT. On the issue of marriage they pledge full support for 'full' marriage including a constitutional amendment if necessary.

Sinn Fein

A fairly decent list of policy links, including easy access to 'social inclusion'. However there's very little on specifics regarding, for example, their position on gay marriage, and the link on the page to presumably more info, in their 'rights for all' pdf gives an error.

Libertas

Couldn't really find anything here on policy, except policy on EU issues and how politics works in the EU, let alone anything on LGBT. No search option.

Have to say, I was pretty bloody disappointed on this! I'm not very politically involved, and as someone with an interest in social equality and equality on the marriage front, it was a big turn off to see so little on their sites about this.. particularly from the two main parties. I came away really none the wiser on who supports or doesn't support what. To look at their sites you'd think they'd precious little idea of what they stand for or what they support at all.

To draw comparison with their next door neighbours, I went and looked at the party I figured would be the worst on this (the conservatives), and came away from their site with a tonne on info specifically re. lgbt policy.

Are we so politically uninterested that parties like FF and FG (to a lesser extent) have seemingly little specific policy info available on their sites at all?

jady88

The green parties commitments to gay rights is laughable at best, they've been in government and so far.... nothing not even a civil partnership bill and whats more we are told it is dead in the water for the immediate future.

Marshy

jady88 wrote: »

The green parties commitments to gay rights is laughable at best, they've been in government and so far.... nothing not even a civil partnership bill and whats more we are told it is dead in the water for the immediate future.

I think the government in general has been arsing around far too long with it alright.

But you hardly except the Greens, who have such a minority in government to get what is evidently a contentious Bill passed without approval from FF.

I'm as frustrated as anyone about it but it was a faction within FF that were the first to speak up against the proposed legislation.

jady88

Who cares? If the Greens had a true dedication to the cause and truly believed that ensuring equality was for all and not just the majority then it should have had no problem in breaking this farcical coalition. After all it's not like FF stands much to gain from an early election.

Marshy

jady88 wrote: »

Who cares? If the Greens had a true dedication to the cause and truly believed that ensuring equality was for all and not just the majority then it should have had no problem in breaking this farcical coalition. After all it's not like FF stands much to gain from an early election.

What I'm saying is scapegoating the Greens on this isn't entirely fair imo.

I had hoped they'd have been able to push it through with more authority too but its a question of being realistic. They're up against FF who had a substantial enough group within the party who spoke out against the Bill.

The fact the heads of Bill are even on the table is because of the Greens. You've seen the way FF have been about it, they couldn't care less. Thats why its taken so long to do anything about it. There's only so much a party with such a minority can do despite what we hope they could achieve.

shay_562

jady88 wrote:

If the Greens had a true dedication to the cause and truly believed that ensuring equality was for all and not just the majority then it should have had no problem in breaking this farcical coalition.

Meh. That's really not how coalition politics works. If the Greens were to threaten to walk out of government every time they disagreed with FF's handling of an issue (or indeed, if any minority partner in a coalition who has 6 seats to the majority partner's 77 were to try to pull that off) then coalitions would never work. Basically, in going into government the Greens weren't expecting to get all of their policies and initiatives implemented, but accepted that if they could get any of their ideas pushed through it'd be better than another term being the 4th largest opposition party shouting into the abyss. So much and all as I support same-sex marraige, I think it's a little facile to say the Greens should have gotten it through in less than 2 years of being a tiny minority in a coalition, and should leave government if they can't. They're doing more for it and committing more to the ideals of it than any other party, that's a damn good start. Direct the anger where it's due: at Senator Jim Walsh and other narrow-minded idiot backbenchers in FF who started moves to block the Civil Partnership bill, and at the bulk of FF who'd rather just shove the issue to the side and hope it goes away.

jady88

That is nonsense, it is exactly how coalition politics works and especially now that Fianna Fail face a very tough role. Lets get real the greens have done nothing for gay rights absolutely nothing.

Marshy

jady88 wrote: »

Lets get real the greens have done nothing for gay rights absolutely nothing.

But what would you have them do for gay rights that wouldn't be over-ruled by FF. Have them demand full same sex-marriage? We know thats not a runner at the moment but the proposed civil partnership legislation is realistically achievable.

shay_562

jady88 wrote:

That is nonsense, it is exactly how coalition politics works and especially now that Fianna Fail face a very tough role. Lets get real the greens have done nothing for gay rights absolutely nothing.

Ok, but honestly, what would you have them do? What's realistically achievable for them? Pulling out of government does no one any good on this issue, as even if the current opinion polls were borne out (which is questionable; people are pissed off with FF, but I remain unconvinced that they'd actually boot them down to being the third-largest party in a general election, given that they've been the biggest party since the 20s and suffered through worse economic times than this) and FG took over as the main party in government, what's changed? It's now a marginally different centrist party with no firm views on gay marraige except that it's best left to the side as an issue, hurray! I'm with Marshy on this one - the Greens have more chance of getting what the want by quietly pushing the Civil Partnership bill than by torpedoing themselves and FF in the hopes that another party might do a better job than them. Honestly, how else do you reckon a party that much in the minority in a coalition can function?

jady88

Well I seem to remember everyone in the country blaming the PD's for every single thing that went in any way wrong. You obviously favour the green party and for what reason? Nice sentiments?

Tell what have the green party done to advance gay rights name just one thing?!

dny123456

jady88 wrote: »

Tell what have the green party done to advance gay rights name just one thing?!

Eamon Ryan marched in Pride last year.

Can you see any other politician doing this? I'll be voting Green as a direct result.

BTW whenever any of the politicians come to your door asking for you vote, ask them about their stance on gay marriage. You'll probably get bull****, but at least you'll be letting them know, it's an issue for some of their constituents.

shay_562

jady88 wrote:

Well I seem to remember everyone in the country blaming the PD's for every single thing that went in any way wrong.

There are two reasons for that. First, a lot of people are pretty ignorant. Second, FF had actually followed the PDs' suggestions in certain areas and people didn't like the results. And I should stress here, FF didn't allow the PDs to have a central role in setting financial policy in this country because the PDs threw a hissy fit every time something didn't go their way, but because the PDs kept consistent pressure on them and they were convinced that it was the right thing to do.

I'll freely admit that yes, I favour the Greens as a party because I agree with a lot of their policies. I support them being in government, and it annoys me when people start into the "Why can't the Greens get anything done?" crap, because they're more likely to achieve small victories every now and again when they're in power than when they're out of power. You challenge me to name something that the Greens have done for gay rights; if the Civil Partnership bill ever passes, it'll likely be as a result of pressure from them. I'd challenge you in turn to name one good thing that other parties have done in recent times for gay rights.

Annasopra

jady88 wrote: »

Well I seem to remember everyone in the country blaming the PD's for every single thing that went in any way wrong. You obviously favour the green party and for what reason? Nice sentiments?

Tell what have the green party done to advance gay rights name just one thing?!

Sure you were a PD member -

Annasopra

Hmm

Fine Gael and the Iona Institute

http://www.gaire.com/home.asp?lgn=&qu=&uid=&nav=&id=&tid=&parent=&showall=&page=security.asp&check_status=1&flavour=

L1011

Johnnymcg wrote: »

Hmm

Fine Gael and the Iona Institute

http://www.gaire.com/home.asp?lgn=&qu=&uid=&nav=&id=&tid=&parent=&showall=&page=security.asp&check_status=1&flavour=

Link just brings me straight to the front page...

oisindoyle

dny123456 wrote: »

Eamon Ryan marched in Pride last year.

Can you see any other politician doing this? I'll be voting Green as a direct result.

BTW whenever any of the politicians come to your door asking for you vote, ask them about their stance on gay marriage. You'll probably get bull****, but at least you'll be letting them know, it's an issue for some of their constituents.

This is the same Green Party who when in opposition backed Labours Civil Union Bill ...the Greens then got into bed with FF for power(general election) ...Few months after that the Labour Party put the SAME bill forward in the Dail and the Greens (now in Government ) voted AGAINST it .....Now thats a real party with principles isnt it ........Absolutely no way will I ever vote for the Greens again .....No gay man or woman should either ....They are Hyprocrites..

rainbow kirby

I won't vote Green again, but that's purely on the basis that their performance in government has been atrocious and they have shown no spine at all while they've been in. I'll most likely be voting Labour.

Annasopra

This is a recent email sent out from the Iona Institute


Final version of EPP manifesto a big improvement on draft
Summary: A number of weeks ago we sent out an e-letter detailing how the European People’s Party’s draft election manifesto for next month’s European elections looked set to weaken the EPP’s commitment to the right to life and the family based on marriage. The good news is that the final version of the manifesto is greatly improved over the draft and basically reinstates those commitments. Please read on for more detail.

EPP election manifesto is now fully pro-family, pro-life and pro-religion

The European People’s Party is the group of parties in the European Parliament that comprises mainly of Christian Democratic parties from throughout the EU. Fine Gael is a member. Ahead of next month’s elections to the European Parliament it debated its election manifesto. The draft manifesto represented a significant step backwards from a pro-life and family viewpoint compared with the 2004 manifesto.

After further debate, culminating in an EPP meeting in Warsaw at the end of April, the final version of the manifesto has been agreed and it is far better than the original draft. For example, it drops the ‘family diversity’ language contained in the draft and in a nod to Judeo-Christian values says that we must be “intolerant of intolerance of our own value system and beliefs”.

The most significant addition to the final version of the manifesto is a reference to a document called ‘A Union of Values’ agreed by the EPP at a meeting in Berlin in 2001. In its opposition to abortion, destructive research on embryos and euthanasia, it is thoroughly pro life document. In addition, it contains the statement that “families where fathers and mothers take responsibility for their children are the foundation of society.”

In fact, the Berlin statement of values is more emphatically pro-life than anything produced by any of the mainstream parties in Ireland in recent year. (Note: We can email you a PDF of Berlin document upon request).

The manifesto itself is also excellent with regard to how parents reconcile family life and work. It favours empowering parents to decide whether to raise their children at home or to put them in child-care.

We understand that Gay Mitchell MEP (gay.mitchell@europarl.europa.eu) and Lucinda Creighton (Lucinda.creighton@oireachtas.ie) played a significant part in getting the draft manifesto changed for the better.

jady88

dny123456 wrote: »

Eamon Ryan marched in Pride last year.

Can you see any other politician doing this? I'll be voting Green as a direct result.

Pat Rabbite took part in Pride a couple of years ago.... so yeah I can see it and did in fact.

Yes Johnny I was, is there a problem with that?

The Green party have done nothing, not one thing and that is all I'd like admitted.

Annasopra

I love the way Stephen Crowley an election candidate for the greens claims

Civil Union bill is in the process and is being firmly pinned down making sure that nothing is left out and equal rights are recognised. so that it is marriage in all but name. that is why it is taking so long.

http://www.irishelection.com/05/green-chance-to-shine/

Annasopra

Apparently Lucinda Creighton has links with Iona too



http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:jtUH7ZTQJ5YJ:ionainstitute.net/news.php%3Fidx%3D14%26num1%3D0296+Leading+FG+TD+warns+that+civil+unions+%E2%80%9Cmust+not+erode+marriage%E2%80%9D&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

Leading FG TD warns that civil unions “must not erode marriage”


A leading Fine Gael TD has said she would be “very concerned” if proposed legislation to allow for same sex civil unions gave such couples rights similar to those enjoyed by married couples. Dublin South East deputy Lucinda Creighton told the Irish Catholic that she would not support “the conferral of equivalent rights to civil partnerships as currently pertain to marriage”, although she does support the conferring of such rights as next-of-kin and maintenance.

Minister for Justice Brian Lenihan has promised to publish legislation on civil unions in the coming weeks. The draft legislation is understood to confer almost all the rights currently attaching to marriage on same sex couples who register under the proposed civil partnership scheme.

Deputy Creighton told the paper that she would be “very concerned” if the legislation gave domestic partnerships rights equivalent to those enjoyed by married couples.


Deputy Creighton continued: “Marriage promotes children and the right of children to have a mother and father. The benefits that attach to marriage are designed to fufill a societal objective - that objective is to provide a stable upbringing for children. The advantages that pertain to the traditional family unit must not be eroded by the proposed civil partnership bill.

“I would be very reluctant to see the tax credits that apply to married couples, apply to non married couples in a civil union situation. Certain benefits apply to marriage, such as being taxed as a single unit rather than individually and the continued payment of a pension to a surviving spouse. These benefits of marriage are designed to assist married couples with children.

“I believe that the tax benefits which apply to married couples must be safeguarded”, she added.

Deputy Creighton went on: “We have seen the Fianna Fail attack on marriage over the past ten years, where they introduced tax individualisation and discriminated against and penalised married couples where one parent stays at home to care for children. It is Fine Gael's policy to reverse tax individualisation and to promote marriage and the family long into the future.”

ixoy

Grand - so is she equally willing to remove all those tax concessions from the many married couples who don't have children?

LookingFor

Yeah..maybe marriage benefits and rights should not be conferred until a couple produce a child, then.

Not to mention why she thinks extending benefits and rights to childless married couples erodes those benefits and rights given to child-bearing couples.

shoegirl

LookingFor wrote: »

Are we so politically uninterested that parties like FF and FG (to a lesser extent) have seemingly little specific policy info available on their sites at all?

No. The reason they don't is because there isn't a clear thermometer out there on how the general public feel about gay issues right now, and a lot of the more mainstream parties may be afraid to lay their cards on the table for fear of electoral backlash. Gay rights are far more mature in the UK and so inevitably there will be considerably more documentary evidence since they have a better gauge of how their target electorates will feel about them.

Right now the LGBT community in Ireland suffers badly from fragmented activism, a lack of reliable information, and often misinformation, as well as perceptions of resentment by some groups against others. I find it a bit mad that there appears to be at least 3 different marriage/partnership rights groups out there all saying different things. We have a serious lack of strategy, I suspect due to the absence of a central campaigning group for many years.

Otaku Girl

Johnnymcg wrote: »

You can see which Irish politicians have signed here

http://www.ilga-europe.org/europe/campaigns_projects/ep2009/map/ireland

Labour the Greens and Sinn Fein will be getting my vote. Very interesting,thanks for this.

jady88

I never knew that about Lucinda... what a dipshi@

Dark Artist

Otaku Girl wrote: »

Labour the Greens and Sinn Fein will be getting my vote. Very interesting,thanks for this.

+1 Yep, wasn't going to bother voting cause I live in Dublin and only have a vote in Cork but I think I know where my support has to stand now.

jady88

Again apart from saying nice things the greens have done zilch... I can't understand why people put up with that.

Marshy

jady88 wrote: »

Again apart from saying nice things the greens have done zilch... I can't understand why people put up with that.

But you never answered the question put to you...what would you have them do that's realistically achievable?

dan719

Otaku Girl wrote: »

Labour the Greens and Sinn Fein will be getting my vote. Very interesting,thanks for this.

Wonder did they care about gay rights when they were killing innocent people?:rolleyes:

Boston

Sinn fein has be very active in promoting LGBT rights in the north. Though I wonder if it has more to do with getting one over the unionists.

ixoy

dan719 wrote: »

Wonder did they care about gay rights when they were killing innocent people?:rolleyes:

And that's the reason I could never vote for them, regardless of their stance on gay rights.

Labour will probably get it for me for MEP, although I'm far from convinced regarding their economic policies.

Marshy

Joe Higgins ftw.

If for nothing else but to oust Eoin Ryan and Mary Lou.

jady88

Marshy wrote: »

But you never answered the question put to you...what would you have them do that's realistically achievable?

I think it would have been realistic to enact a civil partnership bill in the years since they entered government. I fit was refused I think they should have pulled out of government, FF are heading into the shi@@er anyway.

Boston

I may vote Eoin Ryan just to be sure Mary Lou doesn't get it. What I really what is a right wing candidate who has liberal social policies.

Tricity Bendix

Ryan sits with the liberal group in the European Parliament, for what that's worth.

Marshy

jady88 wrote: »

I think it would have been realistic to enact a civil partnership bill in the years since they entered government. I fit was refused I think they should have pulled out of government, FF are heading into the shi@@er anyway.

The reason it's on the table is largely because of them. They didn't go into government to have all their policies implemented at once, just a select few over time. They'd be pulling out of government every other week if they tried to get everything they wanted. Its a question of being realistic.

Boston wrote: »

What I really what is a right wing candidate who has liberal social policies.

Yeah true.

Caroline Simons ftw.

Tricity Bendix

Civil parterships are no more 'on the table' now than when michael mcdowell first started talking about introducing them in the last government.

jady88

Marshy wrote: »

The reason it's on the table is largely because of them. They didn't go into government to have all their policies implemented at once, just a select few over time. They'd be pulling out of government every other week if they tried to get everything they wanted. Its a question of being realistic.

Thats bull it has been on the table since long before the Greens wimpered into government although the PD's did nothing about it either it hasn't advanced an inch since then. No I didn't suggest pulling out over every policy but to me a commiment to equal or at least more equal rights is a more than important enough to draw the line

Marshy wrote: »

Caroline Simons ftw.

is that a serious comment? Have you read her little leaflet?

Marshy

Tricity Bendix wrote: »

Civil parterships are no more 'on the table' now than when michael mcdowell first started talking about introducing them in the last government.

jady88 wrote: »

Thats bull it has been on the table since long before the Greens wimpered into government although the PD's did nothing about it either it hasn't advanced an inch since then. No I didn't suggest pulling out over every policy but to me a commiment to equal or at least more equal rights is a more than important enough to draw the line?

Well of course the idea had been had been talked of before but it was only last year the heads of Bill were published, which is obviously some progress. I as much as anyone will accept that the government have arsed around in getting the legislation brought through but that's down to the conservative faction within FF.

is that a serious comment? Have you read her little leaflet?

No, I was being facetious. Her leaflet is hilarious.

I'm considering giving her a pity vote because of it.

jady88

Her and that entire party are beneath pity.