Which one would be better value?

omri

Hi,

Looking for a new road bike. Frame size matters so I'm considering Focus as they have frames bigger than 58cm.

Those two looks good. One got carbon frame, the other aluminium but equipped with ultegra comparing to 105 that comes with carbone frame. Price simillar.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Focus_Cayo_105_2009/5360037591/

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Focus_Culebro_2009/5360037595/

Still looking for other brands, but max size is usually 58.

niceonetom

I'd go for a carbon frame over a slightly better groupset.

The difference between carbon and aluminium (I just graduated a couple of weeks ago) is very noticeable. I doubt the difference between 105 and Ultegra is anywhere near as significant.

blorg

What Tom said, Carbon/105 over Aluminium/Ultegra. Only situation you might want to consider the Aluminium bike there would be if you are specifically wanting to use it for racing (and even then you would be better off looking at something with a standard crankset.)

DirkVoodoo

Yeah the Cayo is a much better bike, and most people outside the pro peloton wouldn't be able to tell the difference between 105 and Ultegra.

I think most comments you read about "Just upgraded from 105 to Ultegra, so much better" should probably read "Just upgraded from slightly worn to brand new groupset, so much better" or "Never bothered to clean or maintain my old groupset, upgraded to a shiny new one, so much better".

Lumen

I am not entirely convinced about the total superiority of carbon bikes over their aluminium counterparts at similar price points. Most people upgrade from aluminium to carbon frame, but at the same time they're probably buying better groupset, wheels etc.

However, almost everyone I've discussed this with disagrees with me, and they all do far more riding than I do, so I acknowledge that I'm almost certainly wrong.

Still...

The Cayo is a nice bike, but it's not significantly lighter than a premium aluminium frame. My Ultegra-equipped 58cm carbon Cayo is the same weight as my Veloce-equipped 54cm alu Kinesis (without pedals), so we're not talking many hundreds of grams. Other than lightness, ride quality and stiffness is often touted, but again I think this is something you adjust to.

Has anyone upgraded from a (say) €1200 alu bike to a €1200 carbon bike?

niceonetom

Lumen wrote: »

Most people upgrade from aluminium to carbon frame, but at the same time they're probably buying better groupset, wheels etc.

Well I just built up my new carbon frame using the same groupset and wheels i had on my aluminium. The difference the frame makes is real. Night and day, man, night and day.

Sure the bike is probably a few hundred grams lighter but it really is the feel that's the big improvement. The high frequency road buzz that my old cube transmitted so faithfully to my wrists and arse is greatly reduced and in general the frame feels much more supple and direct. It really is vertically compliant and horizontally stiff. It just is.

Lumen

niceonetom wrote: »

Sure the bike is probably a few hundred grams lighter but it really is the feel that's the big improvement. The high frequency road buzz that my old cube transmitted so faithfully to my wrists and arse is greatly reduced and in general the frame feels much more supple and direct. It really is vertically compliant and horizontally stiff. It just is.

Ah, balls.

removes Cervelo S1 from desktop wallpaper

However, maybe your Cube was just designed to give a very uncompromising ride?

reinstates wallpaper

blorg

I have experience of Trek road bikes in aluminium (1000, 1500) and carbon (5000). Same sizes, identical geometries. Groupset on the 1500 actually slightly fuller Ultegra than the 5000 and this would have been Trek's premium aluminium offering. The aluminium bikes were very stiff and you got a real sense of power transfer (why I say might be worth considering if racing) but by god the 5000 was a hell of a lot more comfortable. Along with the stiffness on the alu frames came feeling every little bump in the road through the bars and a sort of feeling you were being shunted off the saddle if you went through anything. The feel of the frames was night and day, and this was same manufacturer, same geometry.

Premium aluminium can certainly be as light as low-end carbon, but the comfort is rarely there... If you look at the bikes the OP listed the aluminium one is actually slightly lighter probably mainly due to the components (8.25kg against 8.6kg) but I would still say carbon even with a weight penalty. In a 1-2 hour race comfort may not be so essential but even then if you want to do longer training rides or sportives the carbon would be beneficial.