Senator Arlen Specter switches party from GOP to Dems

sink

Interesting turn of events on the hill.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8023460.stm

With Al Frankin looking likely to win his seat in June the Democrats with have the 60 seats needed to overturn blocking attempts by the republicans.

I can see this being very beneficial even though I don't agree with all of the Democrats policies. In the current climate the worst thing that can happen is nothing and this eliminates the possibility of a long term stalemate allowing a more radical agenda to be pushed forward.

wyk

sink wrote: »

Interesting turn of events on the hill.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8023460.stm

With Al Frankin looking likely to win his seat in June the Democrats with have the 60 seats needed to overturn blocking attempts by the republicans.

I can see this being very beneficial even though I don't agree with all of the Democrats policies. In the current climate the worst thing that can happen is nothing and this eliminates the possibility of a long term stalemate allowing a more radical agenda to be pushed forward.

"Blocking" a vote is not the same as "Nothing happening". America is still effectively a 2 party system right now. Part of this process is both parties have a say. Once only one party has their say, then moderation has been lost. Whether you are a conservative or a liberal, this is never a good thing.
Simply labeling the conservatives as a 'no' party is ignorant and foolish, and leads to reasoning like the post above.


WYK

LostinKildare

This reaction from GOP strategist David Frum is interesting:

The Specter defection is too severe a catastrophe to qualify as a “wake-up call.” His defection is the thing we needed the wake-up call to warn us against! For a long time, the loudest and most powerful voices in the conservative world have told us that people like Specter aren’t real Republicans – that they don’t belong in the party. Now he’s gone, and with him the last Republican leverage within any of the elected branches of government.

For years, many in the conservative world have wished for an ideologically purer GOP. Their wish has been granted. Happy?

sink

wyk wrote: »

"Blocking" a vote is not the same as "Nothing happening". America is still effectively a 2 party system right now. Part of this process is both parties have a say. Once only one party has their say, then moderation has been lost. Whether you are a conservative or a liberal, this is never a good thing.
Simply labeling the conservatives as a 'no' party is ignorant and foolish, and leads to reasoning like the post above.


WYK

I think you have misunderstood me, sometimes moderation is not the quickest and least painful way to solving a problem. Radical steps even if at first in the wrong direction can lead more promptly to the resolution. For making big mistakes allows one to more clearly see where the problem lies. In addition, if the democrats fcuk up, come next election, it will give the republicans a larger mandate to take things in another direction.

I don't claim to know the answer and I don't think anyone can, in abstract, know with certainty. Only through implementation and experimentation of ideas will we have any hope of arriving at the answer to our problems any time soon.

The Mad Hatter

LostinKildare wrote: »

This reaction from GOP strategist David Frum is interesting:

Pretty well sums up the current GOP problems actually.

Manic Moran

sink wrote: »

With Al Frankin looking likely to win his seat in June the Democrats with have the 60 seats needed to overturn blocking attempts by the republicans.

Only if all 60 vote for it.

In practical terms, it means very little. Specter will vote the way he wants to regardless of the R or D after his name; he's not a party line voter for the Republicans, there's no reason to believe that he will alway vote with the Democrats either. It's a bit like Lieberman in that context.

It's the political/publicity blow that's the big deal, not the supermajority problem.

jank

Que, PJ and his Fox buddies raving about the end of America and the start of a one party State.

Pocono Joe

jank… No end of America… just another dump in the road. You have to remember I survived the Carter years. Political tides change.

As for Specter the Defector… no shock there. He has chosen his own political fortune over the people he claims to represent. He has been traveling the state of Pennsylvania for the last month stating he will not become a Democrat, and that he will win against Toomey in the Primary. I guess you need to judge the merits of this man not just by his words, but by actions.

Here is a quote from him on St. Patrick’s Day:
"I’m staying a Republican because I think I have a more important role to play there," he said. "I think the United States very desperately needs a two-party system. … And I’m afraid that we’re becoming a one-party system, with Republicans becoming just a regional party." He said in an interview with The Hill that the role of the Republican Party in Washington is too vital for him to switch to the Democratic side.

And another from as recently as April 2:
"It's not a very complicated decision. I am a Republican. I think my voice is very important in the Republican caucus. If you were a fly on the wall and you heard what went on, you'd see that voices like mine are necessary to provide some balance. So I think I have an important role to play there." He added: "I am a Republican. I am running on the Republican ticket in the Republican primary. I've had some primaries in the past."

I was surprised to see a sliver of truth in his defection explanation… He saw the results of last Fridays primary poll.

Here’s a question. He is sitting on at least $7 million that he has recently received from GOP donors, who made the contributions to a Republican for his run as a Republican. Do you think he will return the money to the contributors now that he became a Democrat? My guess is Hell won’t freeze over any time soon.

And don't think the Senate spot will now automatically go the Specter the Defector. Tom Ridge might just be a wildcard in the race (although I still prefer Pat Toomey).

banquo

Frum is a pretty good writer:

Bush SOTU 2002 wrote:

We will bring our enemies to justice, or justice to our enemies; either way, justice will be done

I'd expect no less from him, whatever the content/spirit.

DJCR

wyk wrote: »

"Blocking" a vote is not the same as "Nothing happening". America is still effectively a 2 party system right now. Part of this process is both parties have a say. Once only one party has their say, then moderation has been lost.

Generally if there is a problem with one party (the majority party) doing what they want they won't be in such a comfortable position 4 years later.

Its Democracy... The US people believed the US needed a big change.... now they have no excuse not to get it!! Long may it live in my opinion after the last 8 years.

Manic Moran

DJCR wrote: »

Generally if there is a problem with one party (the majority party) doing what they want they won't be in such a comfortable position 4 years later.

Great consolation after having a couple of years' worth of damage done which needs reversing.

NTM

The Mad Hatter

Manic Moran wrote: »

Great consolation after having a couple of years' worth of damage done which needs reversing.

NTM

Or eight?

Manic Moran

Did the Republicans ever have a supermajority?

NTM

Black Swan

A specter for Republicans!

The Mad Hatter

Manic Moran wrote: »

Did the Republicans ever have a supermajority?

NTM

No, just a lot of dems who had yet to grow spines.

Pocono Joe

The Devil went down to Washington
He was sellin' his soul for a steal
He was in a bind 'cause he was way behind
And he was willin' to make a deal

Under his deal with Democrat Majority Leader "Dingy" Harry Reid, it looks like Specter would jump ahead of all but a few Democrats when it comes time to dole out committee chairmanships and assignments.

By switching parties, Specter is giving up his Republican assigned seats on the Appropriations, Environment and Public Works, Judiciary and Veterans’ Affairs committees.

But it looks like many Democrat lawmakers are none to happy about the deal, and will vote against giving Benedict Arlen seniority over powerful lawmakers like Harkin, Mikulski and Feinstein, when they hold their organizational meeting after the 2010 election. Some are now alluding to the fact that the deal between Reid and Specter is bogus because seniority is decided by the caucus, not Reid.

Democrats will soon discover... It’s all about Arlen Specter.

Jack Sheehan

Pocono Joe wrote: »

The Devil went down to Washington
He was sellin' his soul for a steal
He was in a bind 'cause he was way behind
And he was willin' to make a deal

Under his deal with Democrat Majority Leader "Dingy" Harry Reid, it looks like Specter would jump ahead of all but a few Democrats when it comes time to dole out committee chairmanships and assignments.

By switching parties, Specter is giving up his Republican assigned seats on the Appropriations, Environment and Public Works, Judiciary and Veterans’ Affairs committees.

But it looks like many Democrat lawmakers are none to happy about the deal, and will vote against giving Benedict Arlen seniority over powerful lawmakers like Harkin, Mikulski and Feinstein, when they hold their organizational meeting after the 2010 election. Some are now alluding to the fact that the deal between Reid and Specter is bogus because seniority is decided by the caucus, not Reid.

Democrats will soon discover... It’s all about Arlen Specter.

Benedict Arlen? Are you serious? What ever happened to following your conscience in politics? Just because his own party no longer allies with his beliefs he's a traitor? People switch parties all the time in Irish politics and we don't infer that they are betraying anything.

Pocono Joe

Specter was a Democrat. And then he lost, so then he became a Republican in order to win. But then, when he was about to lose again, he’s becomes a Democrat... again. His real priorities lay in perpetuating his own prestige and power.

In his press conference, Specter declared “I am not prepared to have my 29-year record in the United States Senate decided by the Pennsylvania Republican primary electorate -- not prepared to have that record decided by that jury, the Pennsylvania Republican primary electorate.“ (note to Arlen Specter: that’s is exactly what public office is all about). BUT… Not reported much in the mainstream media, he went on to say “But we find, I think regrettably, that the extremes of both parties are taking over.” And yet still he switches….. Hmmmmmm.

Well, if we take Specter at his words that the GOP has become intolerant of moderate politicians like him, Mr. Specter is either being disingenuous, or he might be suffering the early stages of dementia. I remember five years ago, the national Republican Party swooped into Pennsylvania and saved him from certain defeat at the hands of Rep. Pat Toomey (R), whom I supported. And without indispensable help from the GOP party that is “so intolerant of people like him,” Arlen Specter would already be enjoying retirement. I remember attending a GWBush rally in 2004, with John McCain and Arlen Specter in attendance. The boos from the crowd rang loud and strong when George introduced Arlen. Arlen didn’t seem to mind as long as his seat in the Senate was assured.

Here is the real reason for the defection (in the defector's own words): "In the course of the last several months ... I have traveled the state and surveyed the sentiments of the Republican Party in Pennsylvania and public opinion polls, observed other public opinion polls and have found that the prospects for winning a Republican primary are bleak."

Some here may deny the “Benedict Arlen” moniker. All I can say to them is remember the words of Mark Twain: “Denial Ain't Just a River in Egypt.”

Overheal

Pocono Joe wrote: »

Specter was a Democrat. And then he lost, so then he became a Republican in order to win. But then, when he was about to lose again, he’s becomes a Democrat... again. His real priorities lay in perpetuating his own prestige and power.

...So what you're saying is, Arlen Specter is really Sideways.

Black Swan

Maybe Specter woke up one morning and decided that since the MAJORITY of Pennsylvanians have voted Democratic in the last 5 presidential elections...

1992 Presidential Clinton won PA
1996 Presidential Clinton won PA
2000 Presidential Gore won PA
2004 Presidential Kerry won PA
2008 Presidential Obama won PA

...that they were sending a subtle message that Republican leadership was lacking in their state, and that he just might win if he decided to represent the MAJORITY of Pennsylvania voters, rather than the Republican MINORITY?

Another consideration may be that after the Republicans LOST the presidency, LOST the US Senate, and LOST the US House, that they might just have LOST THEIR WAY in terms of lacking clearly defined leadership, vision, mission, goals, objectives, and that just voting "No" as a member of the Party of No did not provide a solution to Pennsylvania's troubles occurring as the result of the largest economic meltdown since the Great Depression?

Overheal

Isn't a Senator uhm, supposed to represent his constituents?

It makes sense, given he comes from a blue state, to be blue.

His real priorities lay in perpetuating his own prestige and power.

I have no doubt the lad loves his job but His Job is representing, again, his constituents. Be they Autobot or Decepticon.

The reason the country is so fcuked up, mind you, is that nobody we elect seems to want to govern from the middle. Which is why we get a lot of unbelievable things passed like the USA Patriot Act.

If you want to get Constituational on the matter, George Washington warns against a Party System.

http://www.earlyamerica.com/earlyamerica/milestones/farewell/

"It serves to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration....agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one....against another....it opens the door to foreign influence and corruption...thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another."

- George Washington

Pocono Joe

Overheal wrote: »

Isn't a Senator uhm, supposed to represent his constituents?

It makes sense, given he comes from a blue state, to be blue.

Erroneous thinking… that’s why we have general elections and not coronations.

Overheal

I'd love to hear your elaboration on that.

You're saying when elected, you should do what you want, not what your electors want?

Oh wait - thats why we went to Iraq. zing.

Pocono Joe

So are you saying that since Specter’s switch is to represent his constituents, and that "It makes sense, given he comes from a blue state, to be blue," and since Pennsylvania is primarily a blue state, that only Democrats should run for elected office - which represents the majority of their constituents?

Overheal

Oh theyre welcome to try. But again, I find the entire Red vs Blue thing very distasteful.

Black Swan

Just voting "NO" with the PARTY OF NO does not improve Specter's chances for reelection in Pennsylvania when voters are suffering from the largest economic meltdown since the Great Depression. "It's the economy stupid!" By shifting parties he is no longer pressured to vote "NO" and has more options to improve his electability.

Pocono Joe

Poor Arlen... Even if he isn’t a political Benedict Arnold, he sure is being treated like one - by the Democrats - after the defection that is.

Despite promises from Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) that Sen. Arlen Specter (D(efector)-Pa.) is being put at the end of the seniority line on all of the five committees that he serves on and will be the junior Democrat on all but one — the chamber’s Special Committee on Aging.

Nodin used a phrase in another topic, well I guess applies here also “Lay down with the dog, you're going to end up with the same fleas.”

http://www.rollcall.com/news/34648-1.html

Overheal

Pocono Joe wrote: »

Poor Arlen... Even if he isn’t a political Benedict Arnold, he sure is being treated like one - by the Democrats - after the defection that is.

Despite promises from Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) that Sen. Arlen Specter (D(efector)-Pa.) is being put at the end of the seniority line on all of the five committees that he serves on and will be the junior Democrat on all but one — the chamber’s Special Committee on Aging.

Nodin used a phrase in another topic, well I guess applies here also “Lay down with the dog, you're going to end up with the same fleas.”

http://www.rollcall.com/news/34648-1.html

Well... as we already discussed...

Manic Moran

Pocono Joe wrote: »

since Pennsylvania is primarily a blue state,

PA's an odd one for its geographical location. It has a lot more in common with the Blue Dog states of the West than it does with the Blue states of the North East.

NTM

Overheal

Manic Moran wrote: »

PA's an odd one for its geographical location. It has a lot more in common with the Blue Dog states of the West than it does with the Blue states of the North East.

NTM

I think I can shed some light on that mystery....

And that is why the Blue Dog States of the West actually take after PA. Not the other way around.