Flat Feet

Bluebell55

Ok, so want to start up running again this summer- my experience is limited to my early teens, but think it will be a good way to get in shape, and want to enter a few mini-marathons, and work my way up!!

My problem is i have very flat feet- no arches to speak of whatsoever!! Went shopping last wknd for runners, and was recommended a pair of Asics, but the sales assistant was trying to dissuade me from running if i have flat feet??

AM i totally barking up the wrong tree by starting up running, doing more damage to my already flat feet?? I'm developing bunions as it is and I'm only 21!? Would gait analysis help??

RJC

I have flat feet (well - low arches) and I run all the time! Get the gait analysis done. That will tell you whether your flat feet are causing over pronation or not. this will lead to a good shoe range recommendation. I think you should go to a shop that has both gait analysis and a range of shoes form several suppliers - so you can compare supportive shoes (for over pronation), cushioning shoes (neutral gait) across a range.

I've had the experience of being recommended the same shoe no matter how I described my feet/gait - basically the only shoe the had in the store room. A good shop will order the right shoe for you (IMHO).

OBWON

My friend has very flat feet also and he runs away fine with a pair of Asics Foundation's

ZiggyStardust

Yes, good idea to get a gait test done, but check this out for flat feet.

http://www.ransacker.co.uk/Flat-Feet.html

RJC

OBWON wrote: »

My friend has very flat feet also and he runs away fine with a pair of Asics Foundation's

I got flogged a pair of these in New York about 2 years ago. I think I threw them away after about 100 miles. The forefoot was too thin and the anti-pronation device stuck into my arch. I was sorted after some gait analysis.

littlebug

Guys when you say gait analysis do you think analysis with treadmill/ video camera is sufficient or do you mean with the "fancier" equipment?

I've low arches/ overpronation, had the video thing done and got recommended asics duomax (gel flashfire) which happened to be on sale...hmmmm. My shins have been feckin' killin' me since the first day I put them on I'm thinking of going elsewhere to see if the advice is any different.

thirstywork

what do you mean fancier equipment?
I think most stores havn't the proper range to supply to the public.
If you look at all the brands out there,most have 3-4 differn't shoes in each category.
I think saying duomax ie the hard area inside an aiscs shoe will prevent some over pronation but wethere it suits your foot is a differn't story.
Like an earlier poster said having low arches or flat feet isnt a given that you over pronate.
there are pros and cons to every type og gait analysis out there,
in an ideal world you want someone to do one after running for 20-30mins at a steady pace to see how efficent and what type of gait they have when fatigued.
Some types of software used in doign gait analysis are very in depth and can really show what is going on but its also experience from the person doing the gait analysis that is also important.

I would advise going for a run and heading to a proper running store to get checked out,don't be worried if you are sweating going in there

littlebug

Sorry.. I don't really know what I mean by "fanicer equipment":o lol A couple of people from a sports shop came to my meet and train group to sign people up for analysis on another night... explained that they had some equipment for the analysis and that each person would take about 15 mins... I assumed this was more than the treadmill/camera type analysis. I didn't go so I didn't find out. This equipment may all be in my imagination though...:o

asimonov

There are two ways of doing gait analysis. The shops tend to do video analysis while physio's tend to use a pressure pad that maps out on a pc the mechanics of your run. This file is then used for making custom orthotics, which are custom made to go in a neutral shoe. The cynical part of me thinks that physio's use it to sell orthotics and sports shops to sell trainers. I don't know anywhere that has the pressure pad diagnosis that then sells runners, who would be a good solution.

littlebug

asimonov wrote: »

I don't know anywhere that has the pressure pad diagnosis that then sells runners, who would be a good solution.

This is what I thought they were talking about. I'm going to go to the shop tomorrow so I'll let you know.

shellybelly08

hey there i got this done last week in my gym... it was a private physio company that came in an offered the gait scan for free then they tell you all about the orthotics suitable for your kind of feet and for the training you do. Im very flat footed and my feet dont roll the right way apparently but the orthotics for me are working out at €360 and this is a normal price he said. I really cannot afford it... I would rather find footwear to help my feet from a shop... If anyone finds out could ya let us no would be fab

Thanks!!

wellboss

€360 sounds like alot to me, I have orthotics worth about €240 and I am still having problems with my flat feet. Went to a physio who is a friend and he said the orthotics I have are useless and I got fleeced a few years back when I bought them. I got measuerd up for another set and he said that a god pair should cost no more than €200.

So id investigate further before spashing that sort of cash on something that may / may not work.

pgibbo

I had gait analysis done today. It was done on a treadmill with a video capturing my running on screen. I ran first with my normal runners, then barefoot and then with a few varieties that they had - it was a demo day. I tried on 3 different types of runners. Turns out my Kayanos don't suit my gait at all. I under pronate, roll from out to in and am very flat footed too. The best of the 3 pairs I tried on, according to the analysis, were the Mizuno Inspire Wave 5 at €100. That's a lot cheaper than the Kayanos which is good I guess. The down side being I have 2 pairs with less than 100 miles each on them.

I'm not totally convinced about the whole tradmill side of it though as it feels completely different and unnatural when compared to running on the road or grass.

The girl mentioned that Amphibian King do a different test but that the results always come out the same. Any thoughts on that? Cheers.

littlebug

I had gait analysis done today by the footmotion people in castlebar. www.footmotion.ie (am I allowed to put the web address in? mod delete if necessary!). I thought it was just a regular sports shoe shop when they spoke to us before but it they are more concerned with analysis/ orthotics etc. The analysis was done on a pressure pad which was interesting and it turns out I had got my foot type completely wrong and I have high arches but also overpronate. I also put more weight on one leg than the other. They do have shoes in store but I didn't feel under pressure to have to buy them... though the fact that I wanted to may have coloured my judgement there. i get my shoes next week (also Mizuno Inspire) so I'll see if it makes any difference.

ETA: they didn't mention or try to sell orthotics to me- just recommended a shoe type.

yop

I have big problems with shin splints and flat feet, got a gait analysis done in Castlebar with foot motion, they have the soft pads which I "landed" on each time, they then discovered what was up with my feet.
Then I stepped onto another soft pad which he heated and packed around my foot to get the arch risen up. Then they made insoles based on that.

BUT it has made little or NO difference. But that maybe my own fault as I have not worn the insoles EVERY day !!

I also have the Kaynos Gibbo, was recommended them by a few lads who I (we) know who run. Maybe they dont suit me either.

thirstywork

pgibbo wrote: »

I had gait analysis done today. It was done on a treadmill with a video capturing my running on screen. I ran first with my normal runners, then barefoot and then with a few varieties that they had - it was a demo day. I tried on 3 different types of runners. Turns out my Kayanos don't suit my gait at all. I under pronate, roll from out to in and am very flat footed too. The best of the 3 pairs I tried on, according to the analysis, were the Mizuno Inspire Wave 5 at €100. That's a lot cheaper than the Kayanos which is good I guess. The down side being I have 2 pairs with less than 100 miles each on them.

I'm not totally convinced about the whole tradmill side of it though as it feels completely different and unnatural when compared to running on the road or grass.

The girl mentioned that Amphibian King do a different test but that the results always come out the same. Any thoughts on that? Cheers.

A few things don't add up here,
firstly you under pronate but u then tell us that u roll from out to in which is over pronation
If you where flat footed you shaould have went for a shoe with a linear platform ie wave alchemy,brooks addiction or beast or foundation.
if they decided you under prontae well then why did they suggest a suppost shoe?
your kayanos might be more exspensive but id still use them.
cab you tell me more about this?
where did you get it done?sounds like the girl wasn't too sure.

pgibbo

Hi thirstywork,

thirstywork wrote: »

A few things don't add up here,
firstly you under pronate but u then tell us that u roll from out to in which is over pronation

The girl was going through the video with me and showing that I go from out to in and have an unstable bulge around the inside of my ankle. She said I was pronating and not knowing one from the other I asked was that under and she said yes? I just took her word for it. Thanks for clarifying that it is over pronation - I also googled it after you confirmed.

thirstywork wrote: »

If you where flat footed you shaould have went for a shoe with a linear platform ie wave alchemy,brooks addiction or beast or foundation.
if they decided you under prontae well then why did they suggest a suppost shoe?

The video analysis of the 4 shoes I wore (Kayanos, Asics 2140, Mizuno Inspire Wave 5 & some other Brooks runner) all showed that I had more stability in the Mizuno and did not roll in as much. This shoe had a more stable heel support and hence my foot did not roll around as much. Pronation or the likes wasn't mentioned that often. The girl was focussing on the fact that I rolled in and that the alignment up the back of my leg was off, i.e. the bulge, in some shoes and was much better in the Mizuno.

thirstywork wrote: »

your kayanos might be more exspensive but id still use them.
cab you tell me more about this?
where did you get it done?sounds like the girl wasn't too sure.

I hope I gave you enough information above. I got it done in Galway in a local leisure centre. This is the company that were doing the roadshow. Have you heard of them? Thanks for your comments and clarifications.

robroy1234

p.s. You have no right edit what I have written "hunnymonster" do I make myself clear.


mode edit: yes I do. Have a week off to think about it.

robroy1234

To analyse your gait look at the wear pattern on your running shoes, this will show not only your foot plant but the movement of your bodyweight from heel strike to toe off. As for running on a treadmill with a camera, just ask a reputable coach from an athletic to look at how you run.

ultraman1

pgibbo wrote: »

The best of the 3 pairs I tried on, according to the analysis, were the Mizuno Inspire Wave 5 at €100.QUOTE]

im a wave inspire wearer and couldnt be happier with dem,but in sayin dat i find the wave inspire 4s better than the 5s and a lot cheapr on the tinterweb....

DULLAHAN2

littlebug wrote: »

I had gait analysis done today by the footmotion people in castlebar. www.footmotion.ie (am I allowed to put the web address in? mod delete if necessary!). I thought it was just a regular sports shoe shop when they spoke to us before but it they are more concerned with analysis/ orthotics etc. The analysis was done on a pressure pad which was interesting and it turns out I had got my foot type completely wrong and I have high arches but also overpronate. I also put more weight on one leg than the other. They do have shoes in store but I didn't feel under pressure to have to buy them... though the fact that I wanted to may have coloured my judgement there. i get my shoes next week (also Mizuno Inspire) so I'll see if it makes any difference.

ETA: they didn't mention or try to sell orthotics to me- just recommended a shoe type.

Since you got your feet checked how has your running comming along. Was it worth geting it done

littlebug

DULLAHAN2 wrote: »

Since you got your feet checked how has your running comming along. Was it worth geting it done

Gosh that was a while ago

Things were great with the mizunos- I still prefer them over any others I've had. The shin splints stopped eventually but I think that was as I got used to the road rather than the shoes... there was a brief reappearance after returning to the road after a winter spent mostly on the treadmill. I do think it's worth getting the gait analysis done if only to make sure that you aren't wearing the wrong shoes for your foot type.

Ironically I've ended up needing orthotics after all (physio recommended). I'm getting the cast etc done for them tomorrow. Neither of the gait analyses I had done in either shop suggested orthotics.
Re my running... well nothings made me any faster and I seem prone to problems when I increase the mileage. I'm not sure there are any shoes that will fix that and I will take physio advice re orthotics over any shop advice.
Foot motion in castlebar is closed now by the way.

happy_73

littlebug wrote: »

Re my running... well nothings made me any faster and I seem prone to problems when I increase the mileage. I'm not sure there are any shoes that will fix that and I will take physio advice re orthotics over any shop advice.
Foot motion in castlebar is closed now by the way.

I had a huge amount of problems when I started running and it turned out that I was running on my toes all the time - took one of the more experienced runners in our group to tell me how to plant my foot. Since then I haven’t needed to go back to the physio for anything major and doing about 50-60 miles a week. Might be worth asking a fellow runner to watch how you run from behind.

all the best and keep it up!
S

yop

I see footmotion are no longer in Cbar in that shop, they possibly have relocated.

Also the lad involved is doing some sort of 6 week running analysis thingy, not 100% what price or that.

littlebug

happy_73 wrote: »

Might be worth asking a fellow runner to watch how you run from behind.
S

er... ok with careful selection of person and wording perhaps

robroy1234

Foot Motion closed down, which wasn't surprising. Orthotics and "extras" on shoes such as motion control, and stabilisers are totally unnecessary. 99% people do not need orthotics or any such extras, and they are added on in order for the shoe companies and outfits such as footmotion to make money out of nothing. I was responsible for the initial setting up of footmotion, but fell out with the two owners over their insistence that everyone coming into the shop has to purchase $300 orthotics - regardless of need. As a physio I deemed this unethical. They now have set up a Running School in Castlebar, and with no experience in athletics - and using the treadmill they are promoting themselves as experts. Suffice it to say it doesn't take much to differentiate between treadmill running and running over the cross country, or on the track. They are charging $360 for six weeks - whereas it would be far cheaper to join an athletics club and have a coach do the same.

JosDel

Go my gait checked in amphibian king, I am a neutral flat footer, Tried 3 pair of shoes, left with a pair of Brooks Dyad5 which are great fitting...

robroy1234

The majority of you have normal feet, even those of you who are convinced that you are flat footed. The idea that the foot over-pronates, over-supinates etc comes from the shoe manufacturers and orthotic manufacturers. At Footmotion the boss was telling customers that everyone has flat feet, and that the plantar fascia is a weak muscle so once your foot is flat then there is no strengthening it. This was completely false. The Plantar Fascia is an incredibly strong and durable muscle, and it can be exercised such as marbles and towels etc.,
Also for problems such as shin splints, anterior tibia syndrome, and other ailments - try barefoot jogging on grass. You will find that your gait would be normal (its the shoes that alter one's gait). If its too cold and damp wear an old pair of socks.

Dutchie

i over pronate very badly.

When i started running in May i was suffering very badly from sore knees and a sore right hip.

I did the following;

1.I went to my physio got orthotics (€70) speically designed for me,
2.went to amphibian King bought Asics Nimbus 13 (€135)
3. Followed stretching advice from physio.

I ran 66.35 in the park last Saturday 10 miler, i'm 90kg and not one ache or pain!

robroy1234

I seriously doubt that you had actual flat feet, the stretching and cardiovascular conditioning with a good new pair of shoes contributed more. Out of thousands of feet that I have looked at and measured, I have only encountered two people with flat feet, both were morbidly obese, one was a teenage boy and the other a middle aged woman. Neither did any exercise at all. The idea of "Flat Feet" is a modern concept and effects mostly Europeans and Americans - people whom spend more on running shoes, gimmicks and extras, than their African, Asian counterparts. I have a series of Plantar Fascia exercises that strengthens the arch, but please heed this warning - Orthotics can and does weaken the Plantar Fascia, leading to a collapse arch - hence the medicine is the poison.

You are all better off doing simple Plantar Fascia exercises with towels and marbles, and running barefoot on grass. I also recommend reading Arthur Lydiard's Running to the Top. He writes exactly what I am saying here.

robroy1234

Recently Nike has relaunched the Nike Presto. This is an extremely lightweight, easy to wear and very inexpensive shoe, that has none of the gimmicks that are unnecessary. I have ran all my best times on the roads with these shoes (half-marathon 64:28) and I have always advised other runners that simplicity is the best way forward. Barefoot running on grass is absolutely fantastic, and I do this as often as possible. Towel Crunching, marble pick-ups with toes and the wobble board are also great as well as regular ice-baths. These are also very inexpensive and considering that for Physio (€50 per time), orthotics (€300) and specialised runner shoes (€100 - 150) you are looking at €400 - €500 for things that are unnecessary.