The ego is the achilles heel

scanlas

The ego is what causes you to have a background feeling of unhappiness and not being good enough. It is the source of all evil on this planet.

So what is the ego?

The ego is your mind made image of who you mistakenly believe you are.
It is made up personality characteristics such as outgoing, ambitous, shy etc. It is made up of memories, achievements and stories about yourself ie I am someone who broke my leg when I was a kid, I am someone who overcame adversity to create a succesful business, I am someone who was a victim etc. It is made up of roles ie I am a man/woman, I am a mother/father, I am an architect, I am married to a wonderful person, I am macho, I am artistic, I don't identify myself to a role (the irony of that one) etc. It is made up of physical characteristics ie I am good looking, I am tall etc. It is also made up of a build up of negative emotion from the past which lays dormant until it flares up. The ego can also be made up of your beliefs.

So how does the ego affect me?

The ego essentially creates a separateness bewteen you and other people. The concept of "otherness" is very important to the ego. The ego is linked in with your emotions. When you get validation of your ego you get a good feeling ie someone telling you that you intelligent would get a quick short lived good feeling of validation if they have "being an intelligent person" as part of their ego. But that feeling doesn't last long and you go about your life looking for more validation of your ego. If being an architect is part of your ego and you strongly identify with it you are putting your emotions in other people's hands. If you lose your job your whole sense of self will come crashing down and you may become depressed. If you identify with your belief in God and someone trys to show you evidence their isn't a God you will become emotionally defensive and may look past the evidence or twist it in your mind to support your belief, otherwise you would get bad emotions. You often hear people getting extremely emotional when debating their ideas and beliefs about something, the reason is because they have identified with either/or both their ideas and beliefs or being superior to the other person. Their body reacts emotionally to being wrong as if they were physically in danger. That's because your ego thinks you are those thoughts and beliefs. The ego loves to accuse and blame, it feels bigger when doing this. It often gets pleasure from drama and causing pain.

How do I get rid of this ego?

Become present. Observe your thoughts and emotions for what they are. You are the awareness behind your thoughts. The ego can't live when you are present and in the moment. Feel the subtle aliveness in your body. Realise that your mind is a tool for you to use, it isn't you, don't let it control you. The more often you become aware of your ego the less it will take control of you over time.

I'd love to hear if anyone has just become aware of their ego and how it's been controlling. It still controls me from time to time but I find myself being at peace more often, less restless and don't take small things so seriously anymore like if someone is rude to me.
Read the "Power of Now" and "A New Earth" for a more in depth explantion.

You can usually tell if a man/woman is identified with being a man/woman when they hear gneder study results such as one sex is better at driving, one sex is more intelligent etc. They will react emotionally when discussing the topic.

The role of adult is widespread. People often have being an adult as part of their ego so they try and act in ways that the image of in their mind of an adult should behave. Often times these people find if difficult to be playful and have fun because it doesn't fit into their image of an adult.

Have you just discovered buddhism then?

EJLL

I'm finding it hard to respond to this post without coming across like I have an untamed ego!

scanlas

bluewolf wrote: »

Have you just discovered buddhism then?

I don't know much about buddhism but I know there are similar concepts in the religion, as far as I know Zen is being egoless and present to the moment.

dreamlogic

scanlas wrote: »

You can usually tell if a man/woman is identified with being a man/woman when they hear gneder study results such as one sex is better at driving, one sex is more intelligent etc. They will react emotionally when discussing the topic.

But isn't that more about being insecure about the topic being discussed than it is about identifying with gender?

scanlas

dreamlogic wrote: »

But isn't that more about being insecure about the topic being discussed than it is about identifying with gender?

Take the example of driving ability. It might be possible that if a man is heavily identified with being a good driver then any sort evidence that might indicate they are not good such as "women are better than men" would give a man bad feelings or invalidation if thats a word. The man would more likely feel more intense bad feelings if there was was evidence suggesting that he in particular were a bad driver.

A man who is not identified with his driving ability but heavily identified with his gender will get bad feelings (feel offended) if there is any evidence shown that his gender is inferior in any way to the other gender. So a man might not be insecure about his driving ability iin that case but in fact be insecure about his gender. Typically anything we identify with is an insecurity. A person who identifies about being rich will be insecure about it even if they are the richest person in the world. It might not be obvious but deep down there is the insecurity. That's why people who are good looking tend to find the aging process more difficult that ordianry looking people. People seem to have a tendency to identify with attributes that are superior to the majority. So the good looking identified good looking person gets really insecure about their looks as they get older, meanwhile the non good looking identified ordinary looking person doesn't mind when they age. Interstingly enough the more compliments and attention the good looking person gets the more heavily the good loooking person identifies with being good looking and the worse the crash will be when their looks begin to fade.

Another point to make is you can't be offended when you have an ego. You are impervious to offence. A person in a restaurant who finds that their soup is cold and says "how dare you" serve me cold soup is coming from the ego. A person without an ego doesn't get offended, he jsut says "my soup is cold can you bring me another one. He doesn't get offended by it. Now a person with an ego might not get offended in that case either, just because you don't get offended in a particular scenario doesn't mean you don't have an ego.That scenario might just be neutral to your ego, it depends on your ego structure.

You can even have an ego as being a person who doesn't have an ego, which happens to me occasionally until I notice it and it dissolves.

Some people have an ego as being the " the life of the party and being centre of attention". I've seen these people on big brother, when they aren't the centre of attention they become depressed and say " I don't know who I am anymore". They are used to being centre of attention and getting their ego validated by it, but then they come across "louder characters" and become withdrawn and feel uncertain. They mistakenly thought being " the life of the party and being centre of attention" was who they are. how ridiculous is that. How can something that can change in a second be who you are, who you are doesn't change.

Earthhorse

The Power of Now is a great read, though I think lifting something from the middle of it might not be the best idea. Some of these concepts need to be introduced to people gradually rather than plonked on someone out of the blue.

dreamlogic wrote: »

But isn't that more about being insecure about the topic being discussed than it is about identifying with gender?

Why would they be insecure about the topic being discussed?

To be fair, I don't think that's a brilliant example to give.

Let me present one from my own life. People often describe me as funny. This is a great compliment to receive particularly as I value the ability to make people laugh highly. It's quite important to me. In the past, on nights out, I would always be trying to make people laugh; trying to be the most clever and quick witted whilst also trying to make it all appear effortless. So on nights out where I was missing my mark and people remarked that I had "lost it" or was "trying too hard" there would be this sense of absence. If I wasn't funny, what was I? Nothing, right? Well, as long as my ego is heavily invested in the idea of Earthhorse being funny then that is how it will feel. Not only am I not funny, I'm not Earthhorse.

As I grew older I realised that, whilst I was funny, I was also other things too and, more importantly, still Earthhorse no matter what. So now on nights out where I'm missing the mark I no longer feel like I'm missing myself. I'm just having an off night or taking it easy. There is no loss of self because I'm not as heavily invested in the identification of myself as funny.

You're better off reading the book in whole as he describes it far better than I ever could but essentially if we identify ourselves with all these labels; kind, generous, forgiving, peaceful or whatever, then what happens our sense of identity when we find ourselves engaged in behaviours that are the opposite of these?

scanlas wrote: »

Another point to make is you can't be offended when you have an ego. You are impervious to offence. A person in a restaurant who finds that their soup is cold and says "how dare you" serve me cold soup is coming from the ego. A person without an ego doesn't get offended, he jsut says "might soup is cold can you bring me antoher one. He doesn't get offended by it. Now a person with an ego might not get offended in that case either.

You seem to be getting a bit jumbled here. A person with no, or little, ego won't make a value judgement about the cold soup. It is what it is. A person with a lot of ego may get offended, or annoyed more accurately, I would say.

Edit: I see you have expanded on your point now and it reads more coherently.

scanlas

I really think these ideas should be taught in school, people are going through their lives being miserable or working hard all their life for something they think will make them happy and when they get it it doesn't make them happy and they can get depressed. So many people spend their lives never being happy with the moment they are in, they spend their lives trying to get to next moment which will supposedly be better than the present moment. The present moment is where life is, so essentially people are running away from life.

One idea from A New Earth really resonated with me. The idea the true self esteem and humility are very similar, not opposites which the ego likes to think.

Self esteem comes from realising that on a formless level we are all equal. We all have the same awareness behind our thoughts. On the level of form there will always be people who are taller/smaller, sexier/less sexy, richer/ poorer, funnier/less funny, higher status/lower more intellighent/less intelligent. True self esteem comes from accepting yourself as good enough as you are, you could have been born into any "body and mind" and this is the one you happended to have been born into.No one is better or worse than you because they happened to have been born into a different "body and mind". Resistance from "what is" causes emotional pain.

dreamlogic

Earthhorse wrote: »

Why would they be insecure about the topic being discussed?

I don't know, I imagine the reason would vary... but that wasn't my point.

Earthhorse wrote: »

To be fair, I don't think that's a brilliant example to give.

I was simply commenting on one of the examples given by the OP.

scanlas wrote: »

How can something that can change in a second be who you are, who you are doesn't change.

I'd say who you are does change and is constantly changing..

b12mearse

So what your saying is, you elect a frame of mind and you try to remain in it. This is the ego?

Earthhorse

dreamlogic wrote: »

I don't know, I imagine the reason would vary... but that wasn't my point.

It might ostensibly vary but the underlying reason is the same, I think.

I was simply commenting on one of the examples given by the OP.

No, I know. I was saying to be fair to you I didn't think the OP had picked a great example.

scanlas

dreamlogic wrote: »

I don't know, I imagine the reason would vary... but that wasn't my point.


I was simply commenting on one of the examples given by the OP.

I'd say who you are does change and is constantly changing..

Your ego usually changes as life goes on. If you think your ego is who you are then you will think who you are changes. People attach beliefs to their ego, that's why people can become so aggressive over a difference of opinion where most of the time that opinion makes no difference to anyone's life.

I often hear radio presenters say they find it depressing when results of a study are revealed such as good looking people are more likely to be offered a job after the interview. The reason they find it depressing is because they have attached their beliefs of the world or beliefs of how the world should be to their ego. Example of the radio presenters belief above was " employers judge intervees on merit alone". If a person without an ego has that belief and finds it to be wrong they don't find it depressing. They don't really care if their beliefs are shown to be wrong. They accept the world for what it is without resistance to the facts. They are present and have a background feeling of peace. When you are present and in the moment you can take pleasure from simple things like washing the dishes. The person with the ego has a subtle background feeling of unhappiness, unease or not being good enough. The person who is present feels good anyway, they don't care about false ego pleasure that doesn't last.

dreamlogic

scanlas wrote: »

Your ego usually changes as life goes on. If you think your ego is who you are then you will think who you are changes.

scanlas wrote: »

.. a person without an ego ..

Basically as I see it, we all have an ego - it is part of who we are. There are those of us who may suffer from too much ego and there are others of us who may be more carefree etc. Also these do not have to be 'fixed' states of being - we all have potential to become more aware, or less aware as the case may be as we are influenced and taught lessons by the experiences of various events throughout our lives. There are people who have a lot of ego when younger but as they grow in adulthood they develop into a person who is less attached to the opinions/judgements of others. The opposite can also happen where you have a fairly freespirited young person who changes into an over-ambitious or more ego-centric individual in adulthood. I know those examples are general and extreme-sounding maybe. But the point I'm making is that who or what we are changes. And if we are able to accept and maybe even embrace this fact of constant change then this is a positive step for us.

scanlas

dreamlogic wrote: »

Basically as I see it, we all have an ego - it is part of who we are. There are those of us who may suffer from too much ego and there are others of us who may be more carefree etc. Also these do not have to be 'fixed' states of being - we all have potential to become more aware, or less aware as the case may be as we are influenced and taught lessons by the experiences of various events throughout our lives. There are people who have a lot of ego when younger but as they grow in adulthood they develop into a person who is less attached to the opinions/judgements of others. The opposite can also happen where you have a fairly freespirited young person who changes into an over-ambitious or more ego-centric individual in adulthood. I know those examples are general and extreme-sounding maybe. But the point I'm making is that who or what we are changes. And if we are able to accept and maybe even embrace this fact of constant change then this is a positive step for us.

We could be arguing over semantics here. It depends on what you define as who you are. Bottom line if you can get rid of your ego or notice it when it arises and not be fooled by thinking it's who you are you will enjoy life more than you could have otherwise. I believe are personality changes, the actions and behavours we choose on a day to day basis changes. The thoughts we think change on a day to day basis. If a person defines " who you are" as those things then who you are can change moment by moment.

Lots of people with heavy egos don't care what anyone thinks, their egos can be made up of other things such as personal beliefs or what happened to them in the past. To some people who they are changes because they've moved house or lost their job. That's ridiculous, I regard someone's personality in the same way. People might say who they are changes because their personality changes. What happens when your personality changes? You choose to make different decisions, actions and behaviours, maybe you feel different emotions in your body. If you identify with those things you will think you are a completely different person. The outer details have changed but the core awareness of who you are is the same. Do you regard a dog a different dog because he doesn't want to play fetch any more? The dog just feels different emotions and impulses in his body which doesn't make him want to play fetch. He's still the same and neither more important nor less important than a human.


If you feel happy one day and depressed the next day are you a different person. No, they are just details, you feel different emotions in your body caused by chemical reactions.

If you feel happy for a 1000 days then depressed for the next 1000 days are you a different person. No, just different chemicals going on in your body. Do you consider yourself a different person when you take a painkiller? No because you don't identify with painkillers, if you identified with painkillers you would think you were a different person, or less or more of who you are. when you are in another location are you a different person,if your ego is identified with location you will think you are a differerent person. If you like and disllike different things now are you a different person, no, but if you have identified with your likes and dislikes you will think you are a different person.


The ego loves the idea of superior and inferior, when you can let go of those ideas you can become extremely confident.

tech77

One of the more interesting threads i've read on boards.

Are you basically saying- free yourself from desire by not identifying with attitudes/beliefs so strongly and you'll be truly happy.

Sounds easier said than done.

That "live in the moment" thing- is that the same as "mindfulness"?

scanlas

tech77 wrote: »

One of the more interesting threads i've read on boards.

Are you basically saying- free yourself from desire by not identifying with attitudes/beliefs so strongly and you'll be truly happy.

Sounds easier said than done.

That "live in the moment" thing- is that the same as "mindfulness"?

I think it's very similar if not the same. The Buddha teaches mindfulness from what i just read on wiki.

I don't think you need to free yourself from desire to be happy and present. You can have a goal that you want to achieve in the future and make a plan to achive it but you still should stay present and in the moment on each step of your plan. Being present means not being preoccupied with past events or things in the future. You give your full awareness to the present moment as you are doing it. You can use your mind to think but don't let your mind use you.

Ask yourself of all the thoughts you think during the day how many are repetitive or a waste of time. Alot of those thoughts cause you to feel emotions in your body which can tire you out. Having a heavy ego can really tire a person out, small things can become a big deal and cause a chain of thoughts and emotions, such as someone forgetting your name who knows you well. Just an example.

I just thought of another interesting example of the ego in real life action.
Some people have the belief I am a good person in their ego structure. If you are strongly identified with being a good person you may find it embarrasing walking past those charity people on the street or feel the need to explain how you gave money to some other charity.

Ickle Magoo

scanlas wrote: »

You can use your mind to think but don't let your mind use you.

That sounds suspiciously like psychobabble. The ego, or ego/id/super-ego or conciousness or subconscious or (depending on who or what you are reading) you want to call it has different meanings and uses and effects depending on whom you believe.

The idea of deliberately syphoning thoughts and trying to control subconscious behaviour sounds like a spiritual quest to tame how past experiences that shape who we are and how they affect us, I don't think it's actually possible to rid ourselves of our ego's, only get to know them better. Some of Berne's work in transactional analysis may be of interest to you? It's a fascinating subject. - this could develop into a very interesting thread.

scanlas

Most people have egos, but if you become aware of it it loses power over you, you can be amused at how ridiculous the thoughts, emotions and impulses inside your body are. The person with the "I'm a funny person and make people laugh ego" can be in a default state of trying to make people laugh, when they laugh he feels good, when they don't he feels bad. His thought processes are taken over by thinking about being funny and people's reactions to him. When a person is in this state his mind is using him to feed his ego. If you can become aware of your thoughts and the emtions in your body and realise it's your ego your mind loses control over you. The good or bad feelings in your body may remain but so long as you remain present and aware the ego will slowly dissolve and the emotions casused by the ego will dissapear over time.

When you become aware of the emotions in your body and accept them they are not as overwhelming. A space comes between the emotions and you. Resistance to bad emotions in your body only feeds their energy and makes them worse. Acceptance of them gives them nothing to feed on and they slowly dissapear.

dreamlogic

scanlas wrote: »

It depends on what you define as who you are.

Well defining ourselves is a function of ego is it not? And if not then how else would you explain the act of defining who you are? To my understanding, definitions regarding self are made by the ego. I think you even said this yourself in your opening post..

scanlas wrote: »

Lots of people with heavy egos don't care what anyone thinks, their egos can be made up of other things such as personal beliefs or what happened to them in the past.

But they do care about what someone thinks even if it's only what they think about themselves.

scanlas wrote: »

You choose to make different decisions, actions and behaviours, maybe you feel different emotions in your body. If you identify with those things you will think you are a completely different person.

I never said anything about being "a completely different person". Obviously one emotion or one action isn't going to effect massive change usually. But having said that you will occasionally encounter people who have had such experiences or what could be referred to as life-changing moments. Leaving aside the question of the size of the change that takes place, we all do change, we are changing every second of our lives. Even if it's at a sub-conconscious or microscopic level. We don't have to be aware of this change, it is happening anyway whether we are able to feel it or whether we want to acknowledge it or not.

scanlas wrote: »

Do you regard a dog a different dog because he doesn't want to play fetch any more?

Well according to your own definition earlier it would depend on how the dog defines himself
Cute example though

scanlas

You can't define yourself really, what you are is unknowable, it is consciousness, most people go through the world in a state of unconsciousness, you can tell someone is unconscious a lot of the time from the vacant look in their eyes. You can see people who are unconscious who walk into work in town in the morning. They are completely stuck in their head walking down the path cycling through endless thoughts in their head. They don't really sense everything around them with clarity, they are on autopilot trying to get to the next moment not enjoying the moment they are in. I catch myself in that state a lot on the way in to work and have to snap myself out of it.When you look into the sky on a clear night and see the vastness of space you can usually get a feeling of presence and of being in the moment, not thinking but feeling or experiencing the stimulation your senses are receiving in that moment. There is not a thought in your head, it's a peaceful moment where you want nothing more but the moment itself.