Artificial / Fake Grass

afarrell1

Ok so I am in the process of redesiging my back garden. And have decided to get mostly granite paving... with a corner of composite decking... the opposite corner will be gravel (with a trampoline) with rasied sleeper beds around the perimeter. My question is now that today I seen some artificial grass and now would really like to incorporate some into my garden. However I have searched the net and not many in Ireland / UK sites seem to have anyone talking bout it. I just want to know is it worth my while even thinking bout getting it or will I regret it after a few years. I know there is a gaurantee of 5 sometimes 10 years on it but I want to know how does it look after 5 / 10 years? I dont want real grass as I love an easy life :cool: :cool: hence composite decking. Im putting alot into this garden in the hopes of never really having to do much in the future. Appreciate any input. Cheers

Sonnenblumen

afarrell1 wrote: »

Ok so I am in the process of redesiging my back garden. And have decided to get mostly granite paving... with a corner of composite decking... the opposite corner will be gravel (with a trampoline) with rasied sleeper beds around the perimeter. My question is now that today I seen some artificial grass and now would really like to incorporate some into my garden. However I have searched the net and not many in Ireland / UK sites seem to have anyone talking bout it. I just want to know is it worth my while even thinking bout getting it or will I regret it after a few years. I know there is a gaurantee of 5 sometimes 10 years on it but I want to know how does it look after 5 / 10 years? I dont want real grass as I love an easy life :cool: :cool: hence composite decking. Im putting alot into this garden in the hopes of never really having to do much in the future. Appreciate any input. Cheers

Quite a choice of materials for 1 garden, are you sure putting gravel under a trampoline is (a) practical and (b) safe? In realtion to synthetic grass, beware because qualities (and also installations) can vary enormously. We offer a range of grades for particular areas of apllication and pricing does vary but most come with a 15 lifetime warranty, which is for hotter climes. In terms of wear and tear, if relevant grade is selected, what you can expect is some degradation of colour (bleaching) otherwise it should be fine. Heavy sports may cause some bald patches (very difficult to do but theoretically possible) but easy to repair. In much warmer climes, intense sun and high temps can cause grass to become brittle but in Ireland that is very unlikely to be a factor.

Good ground preparation is essential for long trouble free use.

gollyitsolly

The Orchard garden center in Celbridge sell a choice of artificial grasses. Instead of cutting it you could just vacuam it every month:D!

Sonnenblumen

gollyitsolly wrote: »

The Orchard garden center in Celbridge sell a choice of artificial grasses. Instead of cutting it you could just vacuam it every month:D!

Not such a good idea for the cheaper grades which use a brush in sand to keep the 'grass' fibres straight and upright. BUt I like your thinking!;)

afarrell1

Sounds like a lot of materials in one garden but I do believe it will work. The decking will be off to one corner with a yellow granite patio... then in the opposite corner to the decking will be the gravel area. The rest will just be patio granite. However I would love a patch of artificial grass just for the little ones to sit and have pinics or whatever on. Sonnenblumen I did read some reviews on the stuff and the only drawbacks I could find is it gets too hot in the sun, which is obviously from a US site as us here in Ireland dont really get much sun for it to be bloody roasting! So Im thinking I will just go for it. I seen some that seemed to be bubbling, is this just badly installed?? How much approx are you talking to supply and install? We have lifted up old sandstone slabs (awful bloody things) so our ground is solid now. Would you need to access soil, therefore needing to dig up the gorund? Also one other question I am torn between is whether to get sleeper raised beds (as in sleepers cut and stood upright if you know what I mean) or brick & plastered raised beds. We are plastering our garden walls (as they are bloody pebble dashed) at the mo so hope to get moving on the garden prob next week. Do any of you guys/ladies know of any good garden design web programmes that I could play around with designs on?? Cheers for all your imput... really appreciated.

Sonnenblumen

afarrell1 wrote: »

Sounds like a lot of materials in one garden but I do believe it will work. The decking will be off to one corner with a yellow granite patio... then in the opposite corner to the decking will be the gravel area. The rest will just be patio granite. However I would love a patch of artificial grass just for the little ones to sit and have pinics or whatever on. Sonnenblumen I did read some reviews on the stuff and the only drawbacks I could find is it gets too hot in the sun, which is obviously from a US site as us here in Ireland dont really get much sun for it to be bloody roasting! So Im thinking I will just go for it. I seen some that seemed to be bubbling, is this just badly installed?? How much approx are you talking to supply and install? We have lifted up old sandstone slabs (awful bloody things) so our ground is solid now. Would you need to access soil, therefore needing to dig up the gorund? Also one other question I am torn between is whether to get sleeper raised beds (as in sleepers cut and stood upright if you know what I mean) or brick & plastered raised beds. We are plastering our garden walls (as they are bloody pebble dashed) at the mo so hope to get moving on the garden prob next week. Do any of you guys/ladies know of any good garden design web programmes that I could play around with designs on?? Cheers for all your imput... really appreciated.

Synthetic grass can overheat during prolong periods of high temps but does not apply to Ireland but in places like California etc. Important that the ground is firm. Th top layer is ideally compacted sand over a hardcore subbase, but it must also be permeable and allow the surface water escape.
Properly fitted there should be no bubbles or ripples. Some inferior grades you have to brush in sand to keep the grass tufts straight and upright.

You might need to check sub base of old sandstone patio to ensure it is in fact permeable. On the Raised Beds, we would never use railway sleepers and certainly given your choice of materials, a rendered RB (better to use 4" solids blocks on the flat) would be in keeping and is a partilcuarly nice finish.

Sorry but cannot help you with design programme, but have you looked at crocus uk or the bbc gardening site?

*Derek*

www.idealgrassireland.com

I have this layed at home. Its super, looks excellent. Its got a 10 yr guarantee. I have the number for the supplier in dublin if you want it..

afarrell1

yeah please let me have the number, do you know costs approx? Cheers

PWEI

*Derek* wrote: »

www.idealgrassireland.com

I have this layed at home. Its super, looks excellent. Its got a 10 yr guarantee. I have the number for the supplier in dublin if you want it..

Is the supplier sanctuary synthetics or is there another company that also does synthetic grass in Dublin?

*Derek*

PWEI wrote: »

Is the supplier sanctuary synthetics or is there another company that also does synthetic grass in Dublin?

idealgrass ireland is the company. John Copelin is the man 086 8151181 Your more than welcome to tell him Derek from Cork gave you the number..

Dogwithabone

We went with Sanctuary Synthetics for our back garden and have been disappointed by the quality of their work. It was installed level with our deck and now two years on it's looks like it's all sunk down about a 1cm. After only six months bumps and hollows had started to appear too. My guess is that they didn't level and blind the sand and gravel base properly and I think I'll have to take up the grass and add more sand blinding before next summer.

In saying that the grass is great. We have two young kids, they can play on it all the time, even mid-winter. It still looks quite well (we went for a two coloured grass and think it works better than the single colours). It can get very warm on sunny summer days, two warm to stand on in bare feet. That's a rare and welcome drawback though!

Sonnenblumen

Dogwithabone wrote: »

We went with Sanctuary Synthetics for our back garden and have been disappointed by the quality of their work. It was installed level with our deck and now two years on it's looks like it's all sunk down about a 1cm. After only six months bumps and hollows had started to appear too. My guess is that they didn't level and blind the sand and gravel base properly and I think I'll have to take up the grass and add more sand blinding before next summer.

In saying that the grass is great. We have two young kids, they can play on it all the time, even mid-winter. It still looks quite well (we went for a two coloured grass and think it works better than the single colours). It can get very warm on sunny summer days, two warm to stand on in bare feet. That's a rare and welcome drawback though!

Thats disappointing experience, our ground preparation for synthetic grass would be similar to laying a patio, except a compacted hardcore base (100mm) + 50mm blinding of compacted grit sand (instead of sand/cement for patio). We find the grit compacts better than coarse sand. The grass is fixed along perimeter to 100x50mm pressure treated timber boards which are securely fixed in ground.

Synthetic surfaces do heat up on very days, in such cases, a quick sprinkle with garden hose should cool the area down. But it's a nice complaint/problem to have?:)

TheGrump

I'm looking to install artifical grass in my back garden as we have a very active dog and almost no grass left after 3 years. Does anyone know the rough cost per square meter if this is done DIY?

Antiquo

TheGrump wrote: »

I'm looking to install artifical grass in my back garden as we have a very active dog and almost no grass left after 3 years. Does anyone know the rough cost per square meter if this is done DIY?

IMO Wouldn't mix these two as the waste products from the active one will be difficult to remove from the plastic one.

TheGrump

Antiquo wrote: »

IMO Wouldn't mix these two as the waste products from the active one will be difficult to remove from the plastic one.

Is it difficult? Have you tried it? Most of the suppliers say it is very good for this use and that they have built plently of dog runs using it. I'd prefer to get some experience from a customer who has used it for this prupose though.

Sonnenblumen

Antiquo wrote: »

IMO Wouldn't mix these two as the waste products from the active one will be difficult to remove from the plastic one.

Sorry but in my experience (as both a user and installer) that is absolute nonsense. There is no disputing the facts that the Irish market demand for synthetic grass is relatively new and growing. Consumer awareness is low but often the product can be confused with products used for all weather sports surfaces. Synthetic lawn is different and available in a range of grades and qualities, each designed specifically to meet the demands of different domestic gardens spaces eg family gardens, pet areas, ornamental spaces etc. The durability and resisilience of quality products is very high with many vendors offering guarantees ranging from 5-15 years +. In order to achieve such long term trouble free use, installations should be completed by competent installers.

The Irish demand for synthetic grass is increasing with home owners who have exhausted all efforts to retain a natural lawn. Synthetic grass is ideal where natural does not grow! For exampple, areas which regularly prone to dampness because of poor drainage etc and which usually results in wet muddy area due to damaged caused by children or family pets.

As any pet owner will confirm, removing pet fouling from natural lawn can also be tricky during dry periods but especially during wet spells. Removing pet poo from synthetic lawns is much more straight forward and easy to wash with no residual smells or stains. Synthetic grass is a much more pet friendly surface than traditional concrete or paving and ultimately making the garden space softer and more appealing.

A variety of methods can be used to clean soiled areas and despite the synthetic fibres being soft to touch, they are very hardwearing, so there is no problem cleaning with briush, hose or even power washer.

Traditionalists may prefer the aesthetics of natural grass, but there is disputing the proven facts of the superior functional performance capabilities and characteristics of synthetic grass. Not only is it an ideal solution for damp shaded gardens sites but a real alternative to a wall-wall hard surface for dogs.

We have several happy clients (many who are also dog owners). All tell me how delighted with the new found happiness a synthetic lawn provides, the pet dogs enjoy themselves, there are no more muddy patches and a cleaner house. A win-win all round. So far I know nobody has referenced any difficulty cleaning up after dog fouling.

TheGrump

Hey thanks for the very informative reply. Do you have a rough guide to how much it costs per sq/m for a good quality product? I would prefer to go the DIY route

Sonnenblumen

Expect to pay € 25.00 -€ 35.00/ sqm (Supply only) for quality synthetic grass.

Antiquo

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Sorry but in my experience (as both a user and installer) that is absolute nonsense. There is no disputing the facts that the Irish market demand for synthetic grass is relatively new and growing. Consumer awareness is low but often the product can be confused with products used for all weather sports surfaces. Synthetic lawn is different and available in a range of grades and qualities, each designed specifically to meet the demands of different domestic gardens spaces eg family gardens, pet areas, ornamental spaces etc. The durability and resisilience of quality products is very high with many vendors offering guarantees ranging from 5-15 years +. In order to achieve such long term trouble free use, installations should be completed by competent installers.

The Irish demand for synthetic grass is increasing with home owners who have exhausted all efforts to retain a natural lawn. Synthetic grass is ideal where natural does not grow! For exampple, areas which regularly prone to dampness because of poor drainage etc and which usually results in wet muddy area due to damaged caused by children or family pets.

As any pet owner will confirm, removing pet fouling from natural lawn can also be tricky during dry periods but especially during wet spells. Removing pet poo from synthetic lawns is much more straight forward and easy to wash with no residual smells or stains. Synthetic grass is a much more pet friendly surface than traditional concrete or paving and ultimately making the garden space softer and more appealing.

A variety of methods can be used to clean soiled areas and despite the synthetic fibres being soft to touch, they are very hardwearing, so there is no problem cleaning with briush, hose or even power washer.

Traditionalists may prefer the aesthetics of natural grass, but there is disputing the proven facts of the superior functional performance capabilities and characteristics of synthetic grass. Not only is it an ideal solution for damp shaded gardens sites but a real alternative to a wall-wall hard surface for dogs.

We have several happy clients (many who are also dog owners). All tell me how delighted with the new found happiness a synthetic lawn provides, the pet dogs enjoy themselves, there are no more muddy patches and a cleaner house. A win-win all round. So far I know nobody has referenced any difficulty cleaning up after dog fouling.

A bit heavy on the refute there sonnenblumen and slightly biased sales pitch.

I have no interest in selling to the op either service or materials.

As Im sure you are aware the artificial grass market originated in the USA as a maintenance free alternative to natural grass spread to the UK where there are literally hundreds of outfits selling and fitting now as you state it is starting here.
Maketed by US astro turf manufacturers who needed new outlets for their product they told pet owners throw away your lawn mower lay our turf and hey presto everything will be wonderful.

Not quite as people soon realised that you have to pick up poop straight away as if the dog(s) tread it into the turf it needs a bit of effort to remove. Not too bad if you are home all day and can regularly go out to them but they will still stand some of it into the mat. In winter when rain washes it into the mat or when the dog has a less firm motion. This can I agree be removed by hose from the upper layer but usually needs the intervention of a good stiff brush and some elbow grease. Then when you finally break the bond with the surface layer of turf the residue and smaller bits become lodged in the bottom of the mat which are not visible.

Not a major problem in our winter (or summer for that matter) as the constant rain helps to wash this detritus down into the turf which on the surface seems to be clear and clean. As this starts to breakdown it produces unseen bacteria which the dogs are walking in and carrying into the house also it starts to smell pretty bad as decomposing dog poo does.

Most manufacturers will not guarantee their product if a powerhose is used which is usually what a house holder turns to to get the poo out after realising that the hose pressure can't shift it.
You mention power hose so I assume your product is OK.

This still does not remove the odour though because in a natural environment the bacteria in the soil break down the organic matter in the poo but on a polyethylene carpet there aren't any.

So now this is where the next market has grown for specialised dog friendly enzyme based cleaning products. People are beginning to realise that the new artificial turf is no longer as easy to look after as they had been informed. That no amount of washing is getting rid of the smell and pouring bleach on it causes the turf to fade and burns the dog’s feet.

Like I said I have no vested interest in the op getting this product. I do believe if the op is prepared to enter into the cleaning regime required it could be an option and certainly as a multi dog owner myself I would not leave dogs permanently on hard standing.

However I think it would be better to provide all information good and bad when someone is asking a question on this or other forums not just the main selling points.


Section from Dog Owner USA on cleaning and maintaining artificial turf for dog use;[/COLOR]



Just like any surface around your site, synthetic grass and artificial turf need some regular attention to keep it clean, fresh and safe for your family, friends and customers.
Defecation materials, spit and other biological "stuff" can be deposited by your pets on the area. Just like any surface around your site, synthetic grass and artificial turf need some regular attention to keep it clean, fresh and safe for your family, friends and customers.
Solid materials should be removed regularly. Leaving solid material waste on the surfaces to break down will increase the amount of contaminate that saturates the turf system; remove solid wastes as soon and as regularly as possible.
Treat loose stool material with care by removing with gloves and spot treating with cleaners. Irrigate the area locally. Do NOT hose solid waste away; this just spreads the waste across a larger surface area.
In dry weather, it is okay to leave solids to harden prior to removing. During wet weather, remove immediately so the solids do not break down further.
Urine will be difficult to locate on the surfaces by sight. Assume that the animals are urinating and treat the entire surface when deodorizing and sanitizing. Most products require one gallon per 500 square feet to achieve the best coverage and saturation of liquids to do the job efficiently. You can use the sprinkler setting on any hose nozzle to drizzle water through the site, helping to drive the treatments down through the turf, infill, backing and base materials.
Volume of waste and use of the area plays a large part in how often you wish to groom the site. A single dog family with a mid to large size animal may need to sanitize the area weekly where a kennel or clinic may wish to do this daily. Sanitizing and deodorizing is critical to your long-term enjoyment and safe use of synthetic grasses and artificial turf.
For best results...

• Keep the site free of organic debris (leaves and such)
  solid wastes will be easier to see and clean up.
• If your pet has an illness, you might want to consider spraying spots with a disinfectant
• During winter rains, irrigating the area isn't needed; during summer sun and dryness, treat with full strength cleaners (except bleach) and irrigate the area weekly to wash the treatments deep into the system
• If you have turf pieces laid on concrete, wood or other hard surface materials, clean under the turf regularly!

Recommended Artificial Grass Grooming Supplies would include:

• A scoop or rake and pail or gloves and bags
• A pressure sprayer or hose attachment for applying liquids to large areas
• Enzyme cleaners help deodorize safely and you can use them often(Odormute, OdorBan, Nature's Miracle, Kids & Pets, etc. Rinse after 4 hours to dilute and rinse the treatments through the surfaces surfaces)
• Vinegar (5% white distilled vinegar; do not dilute, irrigate through surface) "green" cleaners any sort that does not contain alcohol and is biodegradable, non foaming and low suds are best
• 5-10% of bleach and water
  (remember to rinse well; bleach can collect in most infilled turf systems. Too much bleach may create its own smell and can be harsh on paws and skin.

To make the application of the liquid treatments easy, place cleaning materials into a pressurized spray bottle that has a hand wand for distributing the materials on the surfaces.
AVOID Cleaners containing alcohol which can damage the blades and void your UV warranty.
De-greasers and soapy cleaners can be used, however, you will need to completely rinse these products out of the turf. They may create a build-up on the surfaces, making dirt and dust stick to the fibers. Use a sprinkle setting on your hose to insure you will not wash out infill materials from turf.

Sonnenblumen

A - do you have any firsthand knowledge of these products? Synthetic grass has a free draining backing/membrane, so there is no risk of residual waste under tufts.

The US is a completely different environment. Product specs differ almost as greatly as the local climate. Synthetic grass did originate in the US (hotter states)! Why? Because growing a natural lawn was not possible (poor soil and too hot) or maintenance and watering reqs were too onerous and costly (time and money). Climate is also an influencing factor in Ireland, ie damp, shaded gardens etc where natural grass is impossible to grow/maintain.

I have no significant business interest in synthetic grass but I do understand its benefits. I'm not selling it here. Like you I'm offering advice, but unlike you I can from an informed position. I use synthetic lawn and it works very well. I've also installed the product and I have seen the joy and freedom it has provided to other gardeners/pet owners.

Google long enough and I'm sure you'll find some irrelevant report warning against owning and keeping pets. But don't take my word, do some primary research.

Most if not all of the synthetic grass products on sale in Ireland are of European origin.

sanctuarymark

Increasingly synthetic grass from further afield is appearing in the market. To the untrained eye it looks and feels the same as EU produced ones however they can be of inferior quality and have unacceptable lead and other heavy metals contents. Also they are unlikely to have been maunfactured under stringent enviromental conditions and quality controls. Remember to ask for a spec sheet.
I have had it in my own garden for several years now and my initially sceptical wife is now a big fan.
In the interests of full disclosure YES I sell and install it too!

paddylonglegs

Sonnenblumen - Could you pm me a price for supply and fit a 5m x 3m area in synth grass, fit onto flat, level and even concrete slabs. based in naas.

Sonnenblumen

Paddylonglegs - have sent you a PM.

purplepug

very interesting reading! have been thinking about it myself for a while as my garden gets very boggy and the grass has died in patches from wear. I contacted a company for a quote but I would be looking to just buy the grass and get it installed myself. Sonnenblumen i would appreciate a quote if you could for a 4metre x 6mtr area.. i probably cant afford it but at least I will know
As usual Boards has come up with the best info I could find lol. :cool:

Sonnenblumen

purplepug wrote: »

very interesting reading! have been thinking about it myself for a while as my garden gets very boggy and the grass has died in patches from wear. I contacted a company for a quote but I would be looking to just buy the grass and get it installed myself. Sonnenblumen i would appreciate a quote if you could for a 4metre x 6mtr area.. i probably cant afford it but at least I will know
As usual Boards has come up with the best info I could find lol. :cool:

hi purplepug

i've pm you some prices.

SB

cyberspider

Dogwithabone wrote: »

We went with Sanctuary Synthetics for our back garden and have been disappointed by the quality of their work. It was installed level with our deck and now two years on it's looks like it's all sunk down about a 1cm. After only six months bumps and hollows had started to appear too. My guess is that they didn't level and blind the sand and gravel base properly and I think I'll have to take up the grass and add more sand blinding before next summer.

In saying that the grass is great. We have two young kids, they can play on it all the time, even mid-winter. It still looks quite well (we went for a two coloured grass and think it works better than the single colours). It can get very warm on sunny summer days, two warm to stand on in bare feet. That's a rare and welcome drawback though!

Just to add my 2cent. We went with Sanctuary Synthetics two years ago and I must say I am still really happy with the install. We previously had huge issues with both the front and rear grass Lawns due to shade and poor drainage. The Synthetic grass has turned into one of our best purchases.

knipper

I was looking into incorporating some artificial grass on my poorly lit lawn.
As we had a landscaper up to quote for the job on the garden I asked him about artificial grass.
He seemed reluctant to use it in my garden citing expense ( relative to putting down paving ), maintenance ( ie bringing of sand into the house from the grass) and also claimed that the grass would attract bugs such as woodlice.
The last point has potentially swung my wife against the idea.
I am far from an expert on these things but suspect that maybe he just hasn't used this grass before and doesn't want to use it as in my experience people will say anything to get out of an awkward job. ( bad experience with builder!)
Anybody hear these cons before?
I would still like to lay artificial grass but am wondering if he has a point?

Sunny Mornings

Hello,

I have a fake grass decision to make too, though different from AFarrell1's.

I have acquired a large rooftop balcony whose floor is asphalted. It gets full sun and the asphalt gets hot and softens. I intend to do the balcony up, decorate and furnish it as a wonderful outdoor space, but (the ubiquitous 'but'!) as close to no-maintenance as can be had!

From the list of all possible floor coverings I favour artificial grass.

I'm guessing that it won't work if placed directly on the hot summer floor? How should it be laid?

I'll be looking forward to suggestions and comments.

Thanks