Church of Ireland, protestants? anglicans?

Lucy211

Please excuse my ignorance, i'm just totally confused, the church of ireland is anglican...but what are their beliefs and how are they same/different to protestants?

PDN

The term 'protestant', strictly speaking, refers to those who protest against the right of the Catholic Church to have dominion over them. Therefore they have separated themselves from Roman Catholicism and, like the reformers who originally protested against Rome in the 16th Century, hold distinct beliefs such as salvation being by faith in Christ rather than by baptism into the Catholic Church.

The Church of Ireland, then, is a Protestant denomination alongside other Protestants such as Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, evangelicals etc.

Just to complicate things a bit, the term 'Protestant' has unfortunately been abused and misused in Ireland to refer to a certain ethnic group or even a political viewpoint. Therefore many non-Catholics prefer to avoid the term because it is associated with Northern Irish Unionists.

Phototoxin

Yes infact to many people the term 'prot' or 'prod' is highly offensive. As mentioned it applies to those who after the reformation 'protested' against the catholic church's 'monopoly' (inverted as you may agree or disagree).

However some churches while not roman catholic are not protestant such as russian orthodox and other catholic sub divides.

wolfsbane

PDN wrote: »

The term 'protestant', strictly speaking, refers to those who protest against the right of the Catholic Church to have dominion over them. Therefore they have separated themselves from Roman Catholicism and, like the reformers who originally protested against Rome in the 16th Century, hold distinct beliefs such as salvation being by faith in Christ rather than by baptism into the Catholic Church.

The Church of Ireland, then, is a Protestant denomination alongside other Protestants such as Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, evangelicals etc.

Just to complicate things a bit, the term 'Protestant' has unfortunately been abused and misused in Ireland to refer to a certain ethnic group or even a political viewpoint. Therefore many non-Catholics prefer to avoid the term because it is associated with Northern Irish Unionists.

Correct. And the obverse is true too: many Northern Irish Unionists are not Protestant in the true sense of the word. Some of the most ungodly men and women I have known have come from the Unionist side.

The same problem comes with the use of 'Catholic' in Northern Ireland - it is applied to atheists as well as religionists, as long as they are Irish Nationalists. In other words, the religious label is used as a synonym for ethnic identity.

philologos

Technically the Church of Ireland is a via-media denomination. However in practice in Ireland it is certainly very much Reformed. There seems to be a lot of interest in the COI today

To clarify things up OP:

The Church of Ireland is a province of the Anglican Communion.
Anglicanism is the denomination that formed during the English Reformation.
The Church of Ireland is merely a national church of Anglicanism. The Church of England is also Anglican. As is the Episcopal Church of the USA.

Biro

wolfsbane wrote: »

Correct. And the obverse is true too: many Northern Irish Unionists are not Protestant in the true sense of the word. Some of the most ungodly men and women I have known have come from the Unionist side.

The same problem comes with the use of 'Catholic' in Northern Ireland - it is applied to atheists as well as religionists, as long as they are Irish Nationalists. In other words, the religious label is used as a synonym for ethnic identity.

Exactly, and people would do well to remember this, rather than spouting "Ah sure religion always causes war - look at the North". That always annoys me. The "North" was never about religion, religion denomination was only used as a supposed means to identify (assume) which side you were on.

Tim Robbins

Biro wrote: »

Exactly, and people would do well to remember this, rather than spouting "Ah sure religion always causes war - look at the North". That always annoys me. The "North" was never about religion, religion denomination was only used as a supposed means to identify (assume) which side you were on.

And without it (religion denomination) it would have been impossible.

Seaneh

Tim Robbins wrote: »

And without it (religion denomination) it would have been impossible.

No it wouldn't, in the north something as simple as your name or where you live can be used by someone for them to decide which "side" you are on.

If you spell your name "Stephen" or "Seán" or your family name is "McTeage" rather than "Steven" or "Shaun" or "McGregor".

Get off it if you think that without religion the idiots on both "sides" wouldn't just some other mechinism to segragate themselves.

:rolleyes:

Biro

Tim Robbins wrote: »

And without it (religion denomination) it would have been impossible.

You're in a bit of a dream world, aren't you? Or are you being sarcastic?

wolfsbane

Tim Robbins wrote: »

And without it (religion denomination) it would have been impossible.

Ethnic war not possible if both are of the same religion? There was peace between the English and the Irish (and the Scots) before the Reformation?

postcynical

Jakkass wrote: »

Technically the Church of Ireland is a via-media denomination. However in practice in Ireland it is certainly very much Reformed. There seems to be a lot of interest in the COI today

Since you've mentioned the word, can anyone explain to me the difference between 'reformed church' and 'protestant church'?

homer911

postcynical wrote: »

Since you've mentioned the word, can anyone explain to me the difference between 'reformed church' and 'protestant church'?

For most "Protestants" you are getting to the hair splitting stage..

Reformed tends to refer to the Calvinist tradition withing Protestantism, whereas Protestants is a more "generic" term. Anglicanism is another form of Protestantism

There is quite a good Wikipedia entry here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglicanism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant

Clemens

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Protestantbranches.svg

Here's a picture where you can see how the protestant denominations have developed since the 16th century.

Tim Robbins

Biro wrote: »

You're in a bit of a dream world, aren't you? Or are you being sarcastic?

I am not in a dream world, most of the conflict in the North was of a sectarian nature which was only made possible because of:
1. Religious indoctrination.
2. Bad leadership
3. Bad politics

I accept it was a combination of the three. But, they all share their blame.

wolfsbane

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I am not in a dream world, most of the conflict in the North was of a sectarian nature which was only made possible because of:
1. Religious indoctrination.
2. Bad leadership
3. Bad politics

I accept it was a combination of the three. But, they all share their blame.

I agree that all were factors - but the foundational issue was ethnic, not religious. The fact that one side belonged (largely) to an intolerant religion exacerbated the conflict.

But I agree, had that religion been perceived as non-threatening the national question would have been much more easily resolved. Maybe the Planters would have felt comfortable in a new Irish nation; maybe the natives would have been happy to be part of the British nation.

I know many Nationalists/Republicans thought the Protestants would be safe in a United Ireland - but most of the Protestants thought that highly unlikely if Roman Catholicism held such a power over its own people. So the slogan put it: Home Rule is Rome Rule.

History has shown who had the better insight.

As to bad leadership/politics - yes, both sides showed deplorable lack of concern for the needs of the other side. They were only concerned with their own rights and what grievances they had.

Maybe we as a people have learned better now. Too soon to say. But at least some of us have, by God's mercy.

Tim Robbins

wolfsbane wrote: »

I agree that all were factors - but the foundational issue was ethnic, not religious. The fact that one side belonged (largely) to an intolerant religion exacerbated the conflict.

But I agree, had that religion been perceived as non-threatening the national question would have been much more easily resolved. Maybe the Planters would have felt comfortable in a new Irish nation; maybe the natives would have been happy to be part of the British nation.

I know many Nationalists/Republicans thought the Protestants would be safe in a United Ireland - but most of the Protestants thought that highly unlikely if Roman Catholicism held such a power over its own people...

You do know that Wolf Tone, Parnell and Emmet were all Protestants?

postcynical

Clemens wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Protestantbranches.svg

Here's a picture where you can see how the protestant denominations have developed since the 16th century.

@Wolfsbane: Would that be a Protestant orchard or a Protestant tree?;)

wolfsbane

Tim Robbins said:

Originally Posted by wolfsbane
I agree that all were factors - but the foundational issue was ethnic, not religious. The fact that one side belonged (largely) to an intolerant religion exacerbated the conflict.

But I agree, had that religion been perceived as non-threatening the national question would have been much more easily resolved. Maybe the Planters would have felt comfortable in a new Irish nation; maybe the natives would have been happy to be part of the British nation.

I know many Nationalists/Republicans thought the Protestants would be safe in a United Ireland - but most of the Protestants thought that highly unlikely if Roman Catholicism held such a power over its own people...
You do know that Wolf Tone, Parnell and Emmet were all Protestants?

Yes, indeed. They were among the few Protestants who thought the RCC would be manageable.

Had they lived to see how a majority Catholic Irish State worked out, I wonder what they would have said?

wolfsbane

postcynical wrote: »

@Wolfsbane: Would that be a Protestant orchard or a Protestant tree?;)

:D:D

Organizationally an orchard; spiritually a tree. Many churches; one Church.