John McGuinness on the Late Late

Wheely

Eh, anyone else see that!? Pulling a Dessie o Malley or what!?? Make for some good headlines in the morning i think.......

Woger

Anything worthwhile or sour grapes?

ccmac98

Biffo will be going nuts...he'll be hittin the pints tonight...

Trotter

Seemed very much like a chap venting the chip on his shoulder. Another session of telling us the problems and not a solution anywhere. Whether this chap has the clout to rock the boat in any way, I'm sceptical to be honest. If he walked from the party and someone else followed then it'd get interesting.

Onearmedbandit

Stumbled upon it there.

Really put the boot in on Coughlan, you get the impression that a lot of the backbenchers think she is an idiot.

But he's looking after himself isnt he? I dont think he would be there if he wasnt sacked.

Pride Fighter

He is nothing but a self serving, conniving, Fianna Failer. The Irish people wont see through his act of trying to play opposition while in government.This man voted in favour of abolishing the medical cards for the over 70's as well as the *10 budgets we have had in the last 3 months.


FF are incompetent, all of them.This guttersnipe amongst them.







*maybe a slight exaggeration:D

Seth Brundle

If he found FF so bad, then why didn't he quit his junior ministry and FF?

ccmac98

nothing wrong with trying to abolish over 70s medical cards...they only came in in 2002 anyway....why should wealthy people over 70 get free medication while younger people who are struggling to get by ,have to fork out for it.

JonathanAnon

Onearmedbandit wrote: »

Really put the boot in on Coughlan, you get the impression that a lot of the backbenchers think she is an idiot.

I think it is the proverbial "Elephant In The Room" that she is not capable. Very strange choice as second in command I thought. Jumped a lot of good people to get it.

As far as McGuinness, like was said above, if he hated FF so much he never resigned his Ministry as a protest. He seems bitter over the fact that he was dropped when someone like Mary Coughlan is a full Minister. I cant imagine him staying in the party after this outburst (whether jumping or pushed). An opportunist five seconds of fame, wonder what he is gonna do with it?

JonathanAnon

ccmac98 wrote: »

nothing wrong with trying to abolish over 70s medical cards...they only came in in 2002 anyway....why should wealthy people over 70 get free medication while younger people who are struggling to get by ,have to fork out for it.

I agree with this, it was a good idea but very very badly introduced to much confusion and mass hysteria. And the amount of money the government spends on PR..

Kristopherus

Onearmedbandit wrote: »

Stumbled upon it there.

Really put the boot in on Coughlan, you get the impression that a lot of the backbenchers think she is an idiot.

But he's looking after himself isnt he? I dont think he would be there if he wasnt sacked.

FFS she' bloody useless. WAS a half decent Minister for Agriculture

ccmac98

There's a difference between Fiannia Fail and parliamentary Fianna Fail...while being out of favour with the Parliamentary side of the part is inevitable after this solo performance , he's hedgeing his bets that he'll gain support at a grass roots level...and then win favour within the parliamentary party again at a future date under a new leadership which is looking sooner rather than later...a probable shrewd move....also , he never said he hated Fianna Fail, just that he thought the leadership of the parliamentary party had lost touch with fianna Failers around the country at a local level.......he's trying to distance the local level party members form the parliamentary party Fianna fail coz they're afraid they will get hammered in the local elections coming up...

Woger

ccmac98 wrote: »

nothing wrong with trying to abolish over 70s medical cards...they only came in in 2002 anyway....why should wealthy people over 70 get free medication while younger people who are struggling to get by ,have to fork out for it.

I think we should have a vote, anyone got any machines?

Mr.Micro

We don't need the likes of McGuinness to tell us how bad FF are. He stuck with them long enough and is just sore because he was dispensible.

ccmac98

I agree she's totally useless...there coz she's half presentable as a politician goes....while minister for agriculture , a heckler asked her of she knew the difference between a cow and a hefer....she declined to answer.....

oscarBravo

JonathanAnon wrote: »

I think it is the proverbial "Elephant In The Room" that she is not capable. Very strange choice as second in command I thought. Jumped a lot of good people to get it.

A "lot of good people" in the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party? They're well hidden.

Rebelheart

I'm a bit weary of any Fianna Fáil politician who is talking about how we have to focus on the needs of the business community (as McGuinness is on the Late Late tonight).

Maybe after all the cost this alliance between FF and these "businessmen" has cost us it is time to focus on the needs of Irish society, rather than some little clique within our society.

I don't trust him.

gnxx

This is the start of the end for the government.

I very much doubt that McGuinness is acting alone. Who will be next to speak out?

Brian Cowen has an interesting problem now. Will he support the disaster that is Mary Coughlan? Will he try to have McGuinness kicked out of the party?

I wonder if we will see phase 2 of a campaign in the Sunday newspapers.

Darragh29

Nothing p*sses me off more than someone who will talk the talk but won't walk the walk. Why on earth would you stay in an organisation that you feel is badly run, badly led and basically utterly incapable???

If that's how you feel and you think you can do better, then get out and start up a new party and go at it! Never been a better time!

Liam Byrne

It's becoming increasingly obvious that FF are deliberately pissing off more and more people in order to get voted out, so that someone else has to clean up their mess.

I mean, incompetent and all as they are, they can't be THAT incompetent, can they ?

Peyton Manning

John McGuinness is the most ignorant man Ive ever had the displeasure of sharing a room with.

And to think, usually Id sympathise with the guest on the late late show.

JonathanAnon

oscarBravo wrote: »

A "lot of good people" in the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party? They're well hidden.

Sorry I meant to say marginally better.. not necessarily good.

Mr.Micro

JonathanAnon wrote: »

Sorry I meant to say marginally better.. not necessarily good.

Mary C and Biffo are the talent the rest are just hangers on.:D

danjo

ccmac98 wrote: »

I agree she's totally useless...there coz she's half presentable as a politician goes...

I think she is there because she poses no threat to Biffo.

...while minister for agriculture , a heckler asked her of she knew the difference between a cow and a hefer....she declined to answer.....

Not so easy to answer, given the EU concept of the "Once bulled heifer" as part of a concession to Irish farmers.

Nightwish

kbannon wrote: »

If he found FF so bad, then why didn't he quit his junior ministry and FF?

Exactly my sentiments when I heard of his outburst on Radio 1 yesterday.

ccmac98 wrote: »

he's trying to distance the local level party members form the parliamentary party Fianna fail coz they're afraid they will get hammered in the local elections coming up...

Well his son is running for re-election in Kilkenny...

Darragh29

gnxx wrote: »

This is the start of the end for the government.

I very much doubt that McGuinness is acting alone. Who will be next to speak out?

Brian Cowen has an interesting problem now. Will he support the disaster that is Mary Coughlan? Will he try to have McGuinness kicked out of the party?

I wonder if we will see phase 2 of a campaign in the Sunday newspapers.

He'll probably do the same as he did with the economy since it started going down the toilet, sweet fu*k all!

Seth Brundle

Kristopherus wrote: »

FFS she' bloody useless. WAS a half decent Minister for Agriculture

I wonder if she ever learnt the difference between liquid and creamery milk!

danjo wrote: »

I think she is there because she poses no threat to Biffo.

...and because like B. Lenihan, she supported Biffo's quest to lead the party.

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Mary C and Biffo are the talent the rest are just hangers on.:D

What talent has Mary C (apart from putting her foot in it)?

teednab-el

danjo wrote: »

I think she is there because she poses no threat to Biffo.



Not so easy to answer, given the EU concept of the "Once bulled heifer" as part of a concession to Irish farmers.

dont worry she still wouldnt know!

randylonghorn

McGuinness has a talent for foaming at the mouth, he was in disfavour with Ahern because of it, probably would have had a Junior Ministry earlier otherwise given that he and his colleagues did pull out the electorate in Kilk-Carlow last time round.

He's probably been dropped because of some of his outbursts since he was appointed, and now he's off again.

bcirl03

ccmac98 wrote: »

nothing wrong with trying to abolish over 70s medical cards...they only came in in 2002 anyway....why should wealthy people over 70 get free medication while younger people who are struggling to get by ,have to fork out for it.

...and of course all over 70's are filthy rich - eh NO!

Older people struggle just as much as younger people. The truth be known older people have more than likely paid a lot more into the system than younger people.

is_that_so

Darragh29 wrote: »

Nothing p*sses me off more than someone who will talk the talk but won't walk the walk. Why on earth would you stay in an organisation that you feel is badly run, badly led and basically utterly incapable???

If that's how you feel and you think you can do better, then get out and start up a new party and go at it! Never been a better time!

kbannon wrote: »

If he found FF so bad, then why didn't he quit his junior ministry and FF?

Why would he? One can have passion and remain within a party. Look up that Paddy Hillery speech from 1971 (‘Ye can have Boland but ye can’t have Fianna Fáil.’). McGuinness appears to have a passion for the core values of FF. Not that anyone knows what they are any more but I respect that passion.

As I've said many times before, the trouble with FF is that it is a party that has been far too long in power. They are not all necessarily evil, although most of the current batch IMO are inept. From a FF point of view they will need people like him to refocus the party when they go into opposition.

FG in 2002 were in an absolute mess and the "unelectable" Enda Kenny revamped and rebuilt it. Should disgruntled FG TDs have walked at that time?

If he is really that bad why has he been in the Dail since 1997? Obviously he's doing something right locally. Yes he was playing to the crowd but would he be getting as much abuse if he were a FG or Labour TD? There is always a need for one of these in each party, Deasy is still at it in FG and Stagg used to perform that function in Labour. Whatever else can be levelled at him , abrasive personality, loud mouth, jilted minister, he answered every question posed to him. Not sure how the question of his personality comes up tbh. Politics is not about nice people and people will have far more respect for effective politicians.

CorkFenian

IMO Fianna Fail can't have it both ways..How many times have some of their ministers given impression that they're in opposition..O'Dea, Dempsey,Aherne..Sickening..These front line guys and back benchers had no problems in taking the plaudits for years up to last year...For the back benchers to say that they're in touch with feeling on the ground is really a way of suiting themselves...Far from being a fan of Cowen or FF.But McGuinness should lose the party whip over going on Late Late Show IMO...Anyone remember the hospital consultant being forced not to appear last year??

who_ru

McGuiness may have an axe to grind but he has rightly exposed Coughlin and the senior civil servants for what they are - an obstacle to recovery and the new economy.

his point about dell was spot on- why did coughlin and o' dea go on a pr stunt at the last minute to michael dell to save the limerick jobs when everyone it was all too late. that was merely pandering to the cameras. nothing more.

coughlin is not the only one. cullen should have resigned years ago over the scandal that was the e voting joke. but of course cullen puts cullen first and never the country.

i believe that this is the beginning of the end for cowan and this administration. it's clear as water they have lost the people's confidence - frustration is everywhere - Aheren & Cowan poured petrol all over the fire that was the property market when this policy lead to us becoming the most uncompetitive economy in the EU. we are now the benchmark for basket economies.

speaking of benchmarking - ahern & cowan were totally responsible for this lunatic economic policy of rewarding public servant with vast pay increases for no productivity increases whatsoever, thereby further eroding our dwindling competitiveness and increasing costs for us as a country. why did they do this? to guarantee FF support across the public sector & trade union movement. this has pushed us to the brink of bankruptcy - this is why we have 11% unemployent and more than likely 15% unemployment next year. FF putting FF before the country and economy.

irish_bob

ccmac98 wrote: »

nothing wrong with trying to abolish over 70s medical cards...they only came in in 2002 anyway....why should wealthy people over 70 get free medication while younger people who are struggling to get by ,have to fork out for it.

when it comes to sacred cows in this country ( and we have a lot of them ) , the over 70,s are top of the league

irish_bob

ccmac98 wrote: »

nothing wrong with trying to abolish over 70s medical cards...they only came in in 2002 anyway....why should wealthy people over 70 get free medication while younger people who are struggling to get by ,have to fork out for it.

when it comes to sacred cows in this country ( and we have a lot of them ) , the over 70,s are top of the league

considering the over 70,s are amongst if not thee wealthiest demographic , its extrordinary how much they are pampered

Our man in Havana

The over 70's are FF's core support.

irish_bob

Bond-007 wrote: »

The over 70's are FF's core support.

touche

JonathanAnon

is_that_so wrote: »

Why would he? One can have passion and remain within a party.

I agree with you to a point. You can certainly disagree with party decisions and still be within the party. But I think coming out on the national airwaves and basically saying that the second in command is incompetent is going too far.

I agree with him and the other posters here about the Dell "last minute" critical talks. Did none of the Poles who were going home on holidays not notice the billion square foot factory with the DELL sign outside it and tell the people here? And believing what Michael Dell says - how naive are these people? Business people in the real world always make politicians look like idiots, and the banks will do the same if they havent already.

Just going to look up the papers , was there anything about this interview in the broadsheets today?

The Raven.

JonathanAnon wrote: »

You can certainly disagree with party decisions and still be within the party. But I think coming out on the national airwaves and basically saying that the second in command is incompetent is going too far.

‘Going too far’ in whose eyes? He only stated the obvious: the ‘second in command’ is incompetent, and should not be in that job. No one with a modicum of intelligence could deny that fact!

People are regularly complaining, and rightly so, that the media are not doing their job in terms of highlighting the facts, and pandering to the whims of Fianna Fail. I found it refreshing to hear a Fianna Fail TD openly discussing the flaws of the party, for whatever reason. Fair play to him! Loyalty is a two-way thing. He should leave that party now. It’s a sinking ship anyway.

Earlier Mr McGuinness said he had been told by colleagues in Leinster House that Ms Coughlan had given Mr Cowen an ultimatum to drop him or she would resign herself.

“She made it quite clear that she would consider her position if I was brought back to that or some other ministerial capacity,” Mr McGuinness told The Irish Times.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0425/breaking5.htm

This doesn’t surprise me either. If this is true, Cowen should have called her bluff. Why on earth does he want her there in the first place?

dustbabe

ccmac98 wrote: »

nothing wrong with trying to abolish over 70s medical cards...they only came in in 2002 anyway....why should wealthy people over 70 get free medication while younger people who are struggling to get by ,have to fork out for it.

The card fro the over 70s should have been left intact!!
Why? Did any one hear Charles normand, economics prof on morning ireland the following day? Most of those on high incomes never use the card anyway, but its true benefit is that patients who have always paid for medical care like my dad or me in the future, will not attend the dr because of cost when they are ill. The result is that patients attend later with cancers etc... sounds mean, but if they are only on the old age pension they have nothin else. Not every pensioner has a big pension. The cost of treating patients in their later years is much lower as we throw less at them in the line of treatnment, unlike a 40 yr old with breast cancer.
There is no economist in the dept of health or in government, go figure!!
Had they run their figures, they would have realised tehre was no benefit to means testing the card, and they would not have lost so much credibility with the population.

I am a nurse, and doing masters inthis at the moment.

anyone who know economics will know this. and as someone else pointed out, so what if the high court judge uses it, he paid enough bloody tax if he is 75 at this stage, get my drift?

Wishbone Ash

JonathanAnon wrote: »

I think it is the proverbial "Elephant In The Room" that she is not capable

100% agree. Biffo knows it but may try to hold out for a convienient reshuffle in a year or so to try to save face.

ccmac98 wrote: »

a heckler asked her of she knew the difference between a cow and a hefer....she declined to answer.....

I'd be one of the last to defend her but, in fairness, why would any politician respond to a heckler? She would only lower herself and give the heckler 'credibility'.

Darragh29 wrote: »

Nothing p*sses me off more than someone who will talk the talk but won't walk the walk. Why on earth would you stay in an organisation that you feel is badly run, badly led and basically utterly incapable???

It very possible to be dismayed about the leadership of an organisation but feel a strong alliegence to the organisation itself. I don't particularly like the owner of my local pub but I like the pub and continue to drink there.

Archimedes wrote: »

John McGuinness is the most ignorant man Ive ever had the displeasure of sharing a room with

He makes my flesh creep as does the junior Health minister - John Maloney. Yuck!!

CorkFenian wrote: »

IMO Fianna Fail can't have it both ways..How many times have some of their ministers given impression that they're in opposition..O'Dea, Dempsey,Aherne..Sickening

Yes,. Remember Dillie O'Wee at a taxi driver's meeting in Limerick encouraging them to "keep pushing lads" against reforms instigated by his own government!

Gambler

I know this may not be a very popular opinion but if an over 70 is "rich" then it implies that they have probably been in the higher tax rates during their working life. That means that at times over the last 70 years up to 50% of their income has gone into the government and they probably didn't take an awful lot back out in social welfare etc.

In that case have they not earned the right to be taken care of later in life if needed? Have they not more than paid their dues and at this stage more than paid for their health care later in life?

zootroid

I don't like McGuinness one bit. Doesn't strike me as being particularly bright, always says a lot without actually saying anything at all. I think his "outspoken" views are just to garner support locally. As someone pointed out, he just talked about the problems without any solutions, in fact I think he has a tallent for stating the obvious. He is right about Coughlan though.

galwayrush

kbannon wrote: »

.

What talent has Mary C (apart from putting her foot in it)?

Maybe she's able to last the pace with Cowan on a drinking binge?
Can't think of anything else.:rolleyes:

elshambo

Bond-007 wrote: »

The over 70's are FF's core support.

when the people who vote FF because "my daddy fought with his daddy's daddy against his daddy" die (as they will without the medical card)

Who is going to be their core voter?

OR Maybe thats why they tried to take away the medical cards
"the longer you stay i hospital, the longer you stay in hospital"

keeping alive their core support by keeping them away from medical "care":rolleyes:

leninbenjamin

dustbabe wrote: »

cost of treating patients in their later years is much lower as we throw less at them in the line of treatnment, unlike a 40 yr old with breast cancer.

Where does this stat come from? Everything i've learned from my studies in welfare economics suggests otherwise. Older people spend much more time in the sytem than a younger person, take longer to cure and are much more likely to develop secondaries. Surely that means they cost more?

MikeC101

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Where does this stat come from? Everything i've learned from my studies in welfare economics suggests otherwise. Older people spend much more time in the sytem than a younger person, take longer to cure and are much more likely to develop secondaries. Surely that means they cost more?

Don't a lot of treatments / procedures undertaken depend on the likely quality and increased length of life they will give a patient?

Eg, an elderly patient might not be given expensive invasive surgery due to dangers of the operation, high chance of dying on the operating table, and instead prescribed a lower risk / cost treatment, that may not be as effective.
Whereas a younger person, who would have a higher chance of surviving / going on to live a full life might be?

Other than that though I can't think of any reason why it would be cheaper to treat an elderly person - unless loss of earnings / economic value is factored in too?

Carlow52

JonathanAnon wrote: »

I think it is the proverbial "Elephant In The Room" that she is not capable. Very strange choice as second in command I thought. Jumped a lot of good people to get it.

Flat or hurdles:)

dresden8

McGuinness in Sunday Business Post today, he's FF and will vote with the government.

So, their incompetent, they can't do the job, they're bad for business, but he'll support them every step of the way.

WTF?!!!!

johnnyc

i just cant wait for the 2012 general election there will be alot of fianna failers pensioners about.....

John McGuinness is right though about a number of things such as social partnership it should be scrapped tomorrow

juuge

dresden8 wrote: »

So, their incompetent, they can't do the job, they're bad for business, but he'll support them every step of the way.

WTF?!!!!

Mary O'Rourke, 'little willie' O'Dea and 'crawler' little dick roche have all admitted recently that the party (Fianna Fail) comes first. - Say no more.