How much does a Luas tram cost?

dowlingm

The Toronto Transit Commission has recommended a tender for 204 new 28m streetcars to replace the 257* highfloor 15m+23m models built between 1977 and 1989. The winning tender from Bombardier for Flexity Outlook Cityrunners was just shy of C$1bn with about 300m for parts and contingencies. Current exchange rate works out to 619m Euro for the vehicles, or just over 3m Euro apiece. The losing bidder was Siemens whose Combinos would have been 4.5m Euro a piece.

Anyone know how much the current delivery of 40m Citadis are costing RPA? Admittedly they are a different animal - double end double side and using standard gauge and pantos.

* Only 185 are scheduled to run at any time because a chunk of the rest are essentially parked up

corktina

i can get you one cheap...can you collect in Dublin?

L1011

The first announcement for the current order was 51M euros for 18 43m units.

Just a little under 3M euro...

Second annnouncement was 73M for 26 units - 2.8M.

Guy:Incognito

MYOB wrote: »

The first announcement for the current order was 51M euros for 18 43m units.

Just a little under 3M euro...

Second annnouncement was 73M for 26 units - 2.8M.

Bloody Rip off Canada.:)

murphaph

How do the Toronto streetcars pick up juice, from a third rail?

Would the city have been obliged under WTO agreements or whatever to accept the lower bid had Siemens been more competitive? Obviously Bombardier is Canadian and one is glad to see a country supporting one's own industry.

maclek

My brother lives just off King St. I've taken these things on many occasions, never pleasant. The current ones don't take many passengers and you have to climb several really steep steps to get on them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TTC_Toronto.JPG

They're connected to overhead wires by a trolley pole, you can see it in the pic. It has a cupped grove on the top. These are prone to coming off. The driver has to get out with a big (insulated!) hooked stick and put the pole back on the wire.

Another not so great feature is they dump passengers into a lane of traffic at most stops. Notice the "do not pass open doors" sign on the pic.

Here's the web site on the new ones:

http://www.thestreetcarredefined.ca/

Makes you miss the LUAS!

dowlingm

The Flexitys will operate on the legacy network - custom gauge 600VDC trolley pole with very tight curves - which will be interesting given the amount of power required to shift a 28m vehicle - replacing the 15m and 23m CLRV and ALRV vehicles. I am hoping that when some stretches of rail are rebuilt that the new PRIMOVE inductive power system might be contemplated to eliminate the overhead, but no doubt TTC will cheap out there.

The lack of private rights of way is a problem but they managed to annoy so many people with the building of a PROW on St. Clair Avenue many people are fired up to oppose any new ones, and there isn't the political will to do vicious traffic enforcement on streets that streetcars run on. The Flexity will shrink from 30m to 28 because of a smaller centre section which they hope will mean no derailing.

The Transit City network will be double end double side panto but likely TTC rather than standard gauge.

The order required minimum 25% Canadian content by value, as demanded by City Council - Bombardier having a rail equipment plant in Thunder Bay Ontario gave them a big advantage over Siemens who would have had to build from scratch, and means they will be in pole position to snag the Transit City order too.

@murphaph - Siemens were a qualified bidder - they committed to the 25pc CanCon and a Letter of Credit so if they underbid, it would have been legally dangerous for the City Council to refuse them especially since BBD gets loads of Toronto business like the 250 subway car order underway. A lot of unions were demanding 50-75pc CanCon but that would have ensured no bidder except BBD and maybe not even them! Bombardier being Canadian - yeah, they like to sing that one in the media but BBD Transportation is HQed in Berlin.

Alstom took a look but said no - I guess they didn't fancy the customisations required for Citadis to qualify. They could probably have built them at their plant in Quebec but hopefully they will be jockeying for the follow on work to keep Bombardier competitive. There was also TRAMPower but thankfully TTC didn't fancy being a guinea pig.

Victor

dowlingm wrote: »

I am hoping that when some stretches of rail are rebuilt that the new PRIMOVE inductive power system might be contemplated to eliminate the overhead, but no doubt TTC will cheap out there.

The other manufacturers are coming up with alternatives to this, one with a battery that charges very quickly at stops, another with a slightly different inductive power system.

dowlingm

Citadis APS wouldn't work in Toronto because the snow and salt would wreak havoc with the in ground rail - an inductive system would at least not require direct electrical contact. Toronto would be wary of a battery system - the BAE Systems hybrid bus purchase has been a disaster because the supplied batteries failed way before their warranty expiry which has meant retaining old buses to fill the gap.