Boycott chinese imports and save irish jobs

Nothingbetter2d

we are constantly losing jobs to china.... why? cos they use children to work and pay them very little.

if we can produce it in the eu then why dont we? boycott imported stuff from china we can easily produce here. save jobs.

Permabear

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Nothingbetter2d

what exactly have we left to export? all the factories have or are in the process of moving there...

Jimbo

If it wasn't for cheap Chinese imports the cost of living would be huge.

The Western world depends on China to produce on the cheap.

Nothingbetter2d

we depend on a nation to produce cheap goods but then we have no jobs left to earn money to buy those.

a bit like the opec arabs controlling the oil aint it?

O'Coonassa

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

if we can produce it in the eu then why dont we?

Because it costs too much and the industries end up having to be subsidised by the taxpayer as is the case for instance with agricultural produce.

peasant

OP ...ever tried making a computer out of cabbages and potatoes?

brianthebard

Real examples of stuff the chinese are producing that there is an Irish alternative to OP?

Permabear

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af_thefragile

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

=
if we can produce it in the eu then why dont we? boycott imported stuff from china we can easily produce here. save jobs.

Because lately the EU is becoming more and more of a socialist body while the chinese are moving towards free market capitalism out from their commie dark ages.

So the EU here likes to tax the **** out of businesses not allowing them to grow freely and hence the industry sector of Europe is shrinking. We're getting more and more dependent on the asian countries to make our things for us.

You guys need to stop blaming others for our problems and look in within our country. The problem lies within not far out in china.
Socialism will not create more jobs and ensure better living!

ejmaztec

Give it two or three decades and the Chinese production costs will be too high, leading to the new third world countries of the West regaining their manufacturing might.

Do we even manufacture boxes any more, or do the Chinese make those as well?

eamonnm79

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

we are constantly losing jobs to china.... why? cos they use children to work and pay them very little.

if we can produce it in the eu then why dont we? boycott imported stuff from china we can easily produce here. save jobs.

What you are suggesting is called protectionism, At the moment all major powers all over the world are doing this to some extent. Obama has had to stop being so blatent as he was but all the big powers are doing it.
I saw someone advocate a national ecofriendly car produced in Ireland.

Irelands main problem is our lack of Irish export companies. There are not enough Irish companies producing unique products that are usefull all over the world. The IDA policy of low corporate tax for multinational jobs ment we took our eyes off the ball with regard to creating our own cottage industries.
The chickens may come home to roost!

oscarBravo

af_thefragile wrote: »

So the EU here likes to tax the **** out of businesses not allowing them to grow freely...

Ah, here. You've come out with some nonsense, but now you're just taking the mick.

McCruiskeen

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

we are constantly losing jobs to china.... why? cos they use children to work and pay them very little.

if we can produce it in the eu then why dont we? boycott imported stuff from china we can easily produce here. save jobs.

You're a genius! You show such a wonderful understanding of economics.:rolleyes:

Lets just ban all imports and we'll make everything ourself. There will be loads of jobs then.:rolleyes:

The world would be so much better off if every country lived in isolation and there would be no unemployment.

Belfast

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

we are constantly losing jobs to china.... why? cos they use children to work and pay them very little.

if we can produce it in the eu then why dont we? boycott imported stuff from china we can easily produce here. save jobs.

Prices are going up in china and soon they will not be so cheap any more.

In the 1930s trade barriers were tried. It collapsed world trade and made the depression worse and last a lot longer.

The years after independence here were all about trade protection and make every thing we need out selves and not importing much.

These polices were abandon from the late 1950s on as they were destroying the economy.

let not go back to De Valera's Vision of Ireland

Part of de Valera's message to the nation on St Patrick's Day 1943 portrays a vision of an ideal Ireland. This is how he articulates it on radio:

"... The Ireland that we dreamed of would be the home of a people who valued material wealth only as a basis for right living, of a people who, satisfied with frugal comfort, devoted their leisure to the things of the spirit – a land whose countryside would be bright with cosy homesteads, whose fields and villages would be joyous with the sounds of industry, with the romping of sturdy children, the contest of athletic youths and the laughter of happy maidens, whose firesides would be forums for the wisdom of serene old age. The home, in short, of a people living the life that God desires that men should live. . . ."
http://www.rte.ie/laweb/ll/ll_t09b.html

SeanW

donegalfella wrote: »

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To be fair though, what exactly do we sell to the Chinese?

murphaph

SeanW wrote: »

To be fair though, what exactly do we sell to the Chinese?

Money.

O'Coonassa

af_thefragile wrote: »

the EU here likes to tax the **** out of businesses not allowing them to grow freely

Er...as far as I can see the EU is taxing the **** out of workers and giving most of the money to farmers. It's like reverse socialism for landowners?

Tipsy Mac

A ban on Chinese goods would be a disaster, the cost of the same goods to be made here would be 4 or 5 times the amount it costs to make and ship the goods here from China.

djpbarry

SeanW wrote: »

To be fair though, what exactly do we sell to the Chinese?

China imports masses of technical equipment from the likes of Japan, Korea, US and Germany. So while "The West" needs China to produce lots of cheap crap, China needs "the West" to provide machinery and expertise in order for them to be able to make the cheap crap.

murphaph

I think Sean was refering specifically to Ireland but it is true that the chinese buy a lot of stuff from Germany etc. We seem to have forgotten how to manufacture things here. We never bothered fostering indigenous industry during the good times and we'll pay for it.

O'Coonassa

SeanW wrote: »

To be fair though, what exactly do we sell to the Chinese?

Heavily subsidised food ingredients for one. AFAIK exports to China are worth about €2bn.

ejmaztec

djpbarry wrote: »

China imports masses of technical equipment from the likes of Japan, Korea, US and Germany. So while "The West" needs China to produce lots of cheap crap, China needs "the West" to provide machinery and expertise in order for them to be able to make the cheap crap.

It will be unfortunate when China no longer needs to import expertise from other countries and also copies all of the necessary machinery to go with it. That will be when the prices go up.

dvpower

O'Coonassa wrote: »

Heavily subsidised food ingredients for one. AFAIK exports to China are worth about €2bn.

In 2007 Irish exports to China were €1.271b
China exports to Ireland were €4.766b

Padraig Mor

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

we are constantly losing jobs to china.... why? cos they use children to work and pay them very little.

if we can produce it in the eu then why dont we? boycott imported stuff from china we can easily produce here. save jobs.

No.

Permabear

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lmimmfn

ok so with the only 3-4 LCD panel manufacturers in china that means back to CRT or plasma for everyone? scrap colour display phones, iphones, ipods/mp3 players, laptops, GPS devices etc. etc.

skearon

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

we are constantly losing jobs to china.... why? cos they use children to work and pay them very little.

if we can produce it in the eu then why dont we? boycott imported stuff from china we can easily produce here. save jobs.

We're not losing jobs to China, in fact they are losing far more jobs due to lack of orders from Europe and the USA.

Currently the West needs China to produce low tech goods at low prices, in return China needs the West to supply high value technology.

The average wage in factories I've been to in Guangzhou and Guangdong is approx €50 per month, a tiny amount to us, but more than enough for them to live on and send money to their families in rural areas.

I was there two weeks ago and they are certainly suffering from the lack of orders I mentioned above.

ednwireland

phew ! my new lions adidas fleece was made in vietnam so no need to send it back and complain it was made in china.

dont think you've got your head round the concept of a global economy OP. this isnt going to go away poor people/ countries will work for less money and those people will want better pay and more stuff, those companies will then move onto the next poor country. why did fruit of the loom leave ?

turgon

murphaph wrote: »

We seem to have forgotten how to manufacture things here.

No, instead we have forgotten how Labour Unions can be a movement for such negative change, ie completely disproportionate pay hikes.

eamonnm79

lmimmfn wrote: »

ok so with the only 3-4 LCD panel manufacturers in china that means back to CRT or plasma for everyone? scrap colour display phones, iphones, ipods/mp3 players, laptops, GPS devices etc. etc.

They manufacture phones in Bray on the southern cross road for a major manufacturer, They make Processors in Leixlip They make the plastic mouldings for laptops in Nypro in Bray, and they put them together in Limerick in dell and in apple in cork. These are only the ones I know about. If we can make the laptops we can make the rest too

We are overestimating the benifits of chinese manufacture big time.

The main barrier to irish manufacture is that large multinationals have the patents sown up. Because they have the patents sown up they can manufacture where it suits them. However their big mistake is that they are impoverishing the working classes in Europe and the US.

Nothingbetter2d

eamonnm79 wrote: »

They manufacture phones in Bray on the southern cross road for a major manufacturer, They make Processors in Leixlip They make the plastic mouldings for laptops in Nypro in Bray, and they put them together in Limerick in dell and in apple in cork. These are only the ones I know about. If we can make the laptops we can make the rest too

We are overestimating the benifits of chinese manufacture big time.

The main barrier to irish manufacture is that large multinationals have the patents sown up. Because they have the patents sown up they can manufacture where it suits them. However their big mistake is that they are impoverishing the working classes in Europe and the US.

dell is closing its limerick plant and moving to poland

eamonnm79

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

dell is closing its limerick plant and moving to poland

I know, whats your point?

ejmaztec

eamonnm79 wrote: »

I know, whats your point?

I see that Nypro has access to cheap labour in Hungary. I wonder if they're thinking of getting access to some more in Poland.

ongarite

eamonnm79 wrote: »

They manufacture phones in Bray on the southern cross road for a major manufacturer, They make Processors in Leixlip They make the plastic mouldings for laptops in Nypro in Bray, and they put them together in Limerick in dell and in apple in cork. These are only the ones I know about. If we can make the laptops we can make the rest too.

They don't make processors in the way your thinking about it in Leixlip or any Intel site in USA or Israel.
They only finish the wafer and then they are sent off to Vietnam, Philippines (extremely low cost ecomomies) to be made into the product you see in your PC.

murphaph

eamonnm79 wrote: »

The main barrier to irish manufacture is that large multinationals have the patents sown up. Because they have the patents sown up they can manufacture where it suits them. However their big mistake is that they are impoverishing the working classes in Europe and the US.

We have failed as a country to develop research and design. We could be designing and patenting these things ourselves but we don't. So we're stuck competing against the likes of China for bottom of the barrel manufacturing.

doolox

An open policy is the only way forward out of this mess but it must be done on an equal basis. Forums such as G20,GATT and WTO should be used to combat such abuses as child labour, slavery and restrictions on labour bargaining which might give some countries a short-term unfair advantage.
Unions need to become transnational and world wide in their operations and scope in order to act as a counterforce to the international and global reach of large corporations.
Governments also need to club together more in standing up for the rights, pay and conditions of their citizens and act as a counterforce to the tendency towards lower pay, more onerous conditions and erosion of existing benefits which have become known as the race to the bottom.
If we close off our borders and try to make everything for ourselves we will lose out big time. As a child of the 60's I remember well the crap shoes, clothes and cars produced in Ireland and contrast that with the cheap and good quality clothes, cars etc coming from the East. Clothing and shodding children was a huge issue when I was small and cost the family considerably more than today. We used to hear of neighbours getting parcels from America and England with clothes and shoes in them for the large families of the West of Ireland. Families could not afford school uniforms, often Irish made and from one source and therefore dear and had to go begging of their relatives to get the money together to get them. Cars were dear and prone to break down more often than the brilliant Japanese cars we have today.
TV's radios etc were also crap and prone to break down.
I for one would not welcome a return to that system as I find the Chinese etc too useful to ignore. Instead we should be looking to see what we can sell to them from our own resources and tailor our economy that way.
Not enough time or money has been spent on science and innovation in this country and now we are paying big for that mistake. I'd say that alot of males came to rely on construction too much for a decent high paying job and now are in deep trouble career wise. Females on the other hand concentrated on their education and are now set to continue to dominate in growing fields such as education (80% of new primary teachers are female...)
and administration.
Because of the underlying globalisation of the trading in the earths resources, expenses in China will rise, they have to pay the same as us for oil,metals, etc. It is inevitable that over the long term their costs will also rise as people will demand more and better housing, food, transport etc and the governments of those countries will have to respond to meet that demand.
Europes wages and expenses will have to fall to some half-way point in order to compete. Americas will also fall a bit but they have an Ace up their sleeve with a superbly equipped and unified military which limits the ability of the rest of the world to force down their costs and wages too much.
It is no doubt a huge challenge which hopefully will be met without a war this time round. It must be borne in mind that the last Great depression was not finally solved until WW2 came around and all the unemployed were given jobs killing each other and making the weapons with which to do so. Fear was the great unifying element that time. After the war you had Bretton Woods and the IMF etc to restructure the world economy. We need something similar now but without the intervening war, hopefully..............

eamonnm79

doolox wrote: »

the last Great depression was not finally solved until WW2 came around and all the unemployed were given jobs killing each other and making the weapons with which to do so. Fear was the great unifying element that time. After the war you had Bretton Woods and the IMF etc to restructure the world economy. We need something similar now but without the intervening war, hopefully..............

Good post.
But Very scary!

doolox

It was called the Smoot Hartley Tariff act when the Us had the idea of saving American jobs by imposing huge tariffs on imports. Hoover was said to be against it as was the likes of Henry Ford who realised the advantages of International trade for America's long term prosperity.
The act caused retaliation by other countries and lengthened the depression. Ireland suffered as well with similar sentiments regarding the payments of annuities for land purchase to Britain leading to tariffs imposed by Britain on agricultural produce from Ireland leading to the economic war in 1932.
Germany adopted a policy of non trading and self sufficiency known generally as Autarky, basically a closed society. This strengthened tha hands of the Nazi's as any trans national trade or contact became regarded with suspicion and fear and mistrust...leading to War.
Tragically the US imposed sanctions on Japan for its militarism in China and the former Far East colonies of Holland and France, the home countries already having been invaded by Herr Hitler. Soon the Americans and the British were embroiled in a War on both Oceans which took 6 years to fight and changed the economic face of the world.