That spiritual feeling must mean ...

Kipperhell

I had a spiritual feeling the other day and it felt great. I felt wanted, at peace safe in my surroundings and pure elation. No drugs or alcohol were involved. So afterwards I am thinking religion wasn't involved in anyway yet some people would call this feeling proof of a god. Like many people in Ireland I was surrounded with Catholicism and recall similar feels while a child in the unity of a group involved in ritual.
Given many people get similar feelings at times I find it hard that so many firmly link such feels with being correct in their choice of religion and deny other faiths claims of similar feels and those that just ignore it as part of normal human behaviour. Am I alone?

midlandsmissus

Kipperhell wrote: »

I had a spiritual feeling the other day and it felt great. I felt wanted, at peace safe in my surroundings and pure elation. No drugs or alcohol were involved. So afterwards I am thinking religion wasn't involved in anyway yet some people would call this feeling proof of a god. Like many people in Ireland I was surrounded with Catholicism and recall similar feels while a child in the unity of a group involved in ritual.
Given many people get similar feelings at times I find it hard that so many firmly link such feels with being correct in their choice of religion and deny other faiths claims of similar feels and those that just ignore it as part of normal human behaviour. Am I alone?

Hi I always get this feeling, when I talk to what I call 'God'. It's a feeling of indescribable peace.

You dont have to be a part of any religion to be spiritual. Religion is segregational and divisive, you can be spiritual without it, Ifind anyway.

And you cant beat that feeling of peace!

Naz_st

Kipperhell wrote: »

I had a spiritual feeling the other day and it felt great. I felt wanted, at peace safe in my surroundings and pure elation. No drugs or alcohol were involved. So afterwards I am thinking religion wasn't involved in anyway yet some people would call this feeling proof of a god. Like many people in Ireland I was surrounded with Catholicism and recall similar feels while a child in the unity of a group involved in ritual.
Given many people get similar feelings at times I find it hard that so many firmly link such feels with being correct in their choice of religion and deny other faiths claims of similar feels and those that just ignore it as part of normal human behaviour. Am I alone?

No, you're not alone. I've posted a link to this article by Sam Harris before, but if you haven't already seen it, I think it fits in quite well with your question.

Zombrex

Kipperhell wrote: »

I had a spiritual feeling the other day and it felt great. I felt wanted, at peace safe in my surroundings and pure elation. No drugs or alcohol were involved. So afterwards I am thinking religion wasn't involved in anyway yet some people would call this feeling proof of a god. Like many people in Ireland I was surrounded with Catholicism and recall similar feels while a child in the unity of a group involved in ritual.
Given many people get similar feelings at times I find it hard that so many firmly link such feels with being correct in their choice of religion and deny other faiths claims of similar feels and those that just ignore it as part of normal human behaviour. Am I alone?

That is one of the main reasons why I started to seriously think about atheism, the realisation that these feelings are common across religions.

JimiTime

Wicknight wrote: »

That is one of the main reasons why I started to seriously think about atheism, the realisation that these feelings are common across religions.

I tend to agree with you, not about the atheism obviously:) I think that whole, 'I had this feeling'' is too ambiguous to attribute to God etc. As you said, it is a common anecdote from many religions too. I pay little attention to such stories tbh.

Goduznt Xzst

I find I often tend to get this feeling when in nature, or surrounded by wildlife. Since accepting reality I've found this feeling has grown exponentially. There was a sudden realization one day whilst watching a spider building his web outside my window, with the birds in the bushes behind him rubber necking and picking at the berries that humans have awfully complicated existence, the only thing that matters is that we are alive and have achieved life. We struggle to exist like every other being on this planet.

It was a moment of oneness, and a feeling of place in the universe. Some would call it a spiritual experience, I prefer to think of it as a moment of clarity or calmness.

Some people get this feeling from sitting on chairs listening to a minister speak, personally, I've found no better way to achieve a sense of peace then to spend a sunny day lying in the long grass under an old tree, rustled by a light breeze, with the woman I love resting her arm across me.

kiffer

JimiTime wrote: »

I tend to agree with you, not about the atheism obviously:) I think that whole, 'I had this feeling'' is too ambiguous to attribute to God etc. As you said, it is a common anecdote from many religions too. I pay little attention to such stories tbh.

And yet in many ways we see "I just got this feeling" played off as "I know it with my highest perception", "God told me that my interpretation of this passage is correct, not in words but I got this feeling...", or rather words along those lines in the other forum...

Pretty much any claim to knowledge of the specifics of the nature of God or the will of God come down to "I just got this Feeling", the same feeling that other people in other cultural backgrounds also use to justify their different beliefs...

Kipperhell

Naz_st wrote: »

No, you're not alone. I've posted a link to this article by Sam Harris before, but if you haven't already seen it, I think it fits in quite well with your question.

Nice link and well written article.

I think I have been spending too long talking to people who shout out about how their religion has a semi-magical power. Effectively I was losing some sight into what it is to be human.

DeVore

A bunch of snowboarders I would ride with in Italy took the lift to the top of the mountain and then we hiked about 30 minutes away to an off-piste summit where we sat down to rest and to go through our safety checks and prepare for our descent.

I had headphones on and was playing "God Is a DJ" which fittingly has the chorus "this is my church". Looking out over the entire snowcovered alps and sitting on the top of mountain which hadnt looked nearly as big from below I had a moment of feeling my tiny place/role in the order of things.

It didnt feel like "God" to me, it felt more like perspective but it certainly would have been what I would describe as a "spiritual" moment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geVL-csTISk

DeV.

JimiTime

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

I find I often tend to get this feeling when in nature, or surrounded by wildlife.

Me too.

Since accepting reality

LOL.

Some people get this feeling from sitting on chairs listening to a minister speak,

I don't think alot of people do tbh.

personally, I've found no better way to achieve a sense of peace then to spend a sunny day lying in the long grass under an old tree, rustled by a light breeze, with the woman I love resting her arm across me.

Experiencing Love and the beauty of the natural world are a couple of the main things that bring me closer to God. The mind ey, a wonderful contraption. Its while experiencing such things I am amazed that folk think that its all some cosmic accident.

JimiTime

kiffer wrote: »

And yet in many ways we see "I just got this feeling" played off as "I know it with my highest perception", "God told me that my interpretation of this passage is correct, not in words but I got this feeling...", or rather words along those lines in the other forum...

I haven't come across it being used in such a manner myself.

Pretty much any claim to knowledge of the specifics of the nature of God or the will of God come down to "I just got this Feeling", the same feeling that other people in other cultural backgrounds also use to justify their different beliefs...

Again, I don't think I've come across it being used in such a manner myself. The context I find it used in, is the context of, 'I know it was God'. I've had it myself. Everytime I read the accounts of the eve and day of the crucifiction I am filled with a great sadness and also a great shame, and also a great happiness. Such a rollercoaster of emotion is bound to give you a 'feeling'. I don't rule out that God has played a part in my coming to him, but I would not express the 'feeling' scenario as some sort of proof to others. These are personal experiences which can speak to ones own heart. There is little point in trying to use it to convince someone else of something IMO.

kiffer

JimiTime wrote: »

I haven't come across it being used in such a manner myself.

Well then it must not happen... :-D
Keep an eye out for it...

Again, I don't think I've come across it being used in such a manner myself. The context I find it used in, is the context of, 'I know it was God'.

So you do see it used?
C: "I KNOW it was God"
A: "How do you know?"
C: "Well, I got this really deep spiritual feeling while reading the passage"
A: "What? like people from every other faith on Earth gets?"
C: "No, it was God, not some delusion or demon."

I've had it myself. Everytime I read the accounts of the eve and day of the crucifiction I am filled with a great sadness and also a great shame, and also a great happiness.

So? Many stories stir up our emotions... There is this story about a guy bringing his dog to the vets to be put down floating around out there in the net... every time I read it I come close to tears, does that lend any credibility to the story? Just because I cried watching Jurassic Bark, when Fry finds his dog does that mean it's true? Poor Seymour :`(

Such a rollercoaster of emotion is bound to give you a 'feeling'. I don't rule out that God has played a part in my coming to him, but I would not express the 'feeling' scenario as some sort of proof to others.

and rightly so...

These are personal experiences which can speak to ones own heart. There is little point in trying to use it to convince someone else of something IMO.

I agree. "I feel it must be true" can be worse than useless for convincing someone of the validity of your claims.

JimiTime

kiffer wrote: »

So you do see it used?

I never said I didn't. I said I never seen it used in the context of biblical interpretation, which is the context you posted.

So? Many stories stir up our emotions...

Ehh, thats my point. My point is its such a rollercoaster of emotion for me, I'm bound to have a strange 'feeling'. I don't then make the leap and say that this feeling is God.

I agree. "I feel it must be true" can be worse than useless for convincing someone of the validity of your claims.

Thats changing your angle now. 'I feel it must be true' is not the same as, 'I got this feeling, and I know it was God'. Both are fairly useless in convincing someone of truth if all you have is this personal 'feeling'.

Goduznt Xzst

JimiTime wrote: »

I don't think alot of people do tbh.

I sometimes wonder if you are purposefully litigious for arguments sake. Tell you what, sit in any of the great Cathedrals in Europe during a service and tell me it isn't having a deep effect on the followers there. Most people find religious services a source of peace and somewhere where their faith is strengthened by Gods spirit. Do you not?

JimiTime wrote: »

Its while experiencing such things I am amazed that folk think that its all some cosmic accident.

Ah I understand why you need to believe now. The very fact we exist is not an accident, for that to be true you are assuming one outcome was less desirable than another. The universe simply is, we are a result of it. For me there is a marvelous wonderment in this.

Where you to view the universe where 1 billion years passed every second you'd see it as utterly chaotic and destructive, but we have been afforded the benefit of viewing the universe burn itself out at an extremely slow rate. We get to watch each flicker of its turbulent existence and future as it happens.

I find great peace in this knowledge about the universe and our place in it, it is a sight better than believing we are merely pawns in some celestial bickering over who has the right to the throne.

Dades

You know people this doesn't have to be another "Everyone v The Christian" thread.

kiffer

JimiTime wrote: »

I never said I didn't. I said I never seen it used in the context of biblical interpretation, which is the context you posted.

Eh... in my original post I didn't just mention the biblical interpretation, I meant it in a broader context.
That said if you were taking it in just the biblical interpretation context then I'm not surprised or even doubtful that you've not encountered it.
Keep an eye out for it... as a believer you don't necessarily question peoples motives on interpretation in the same way we do... You may never have asked people why they are so sure that their interpretation is correct over that of another groups...

Ehh, thats my point. My point is its such a rollercoaster of emotion for me, I'm bound to have a strange 'feeling'. I don't then make the leap and say that this feeling is God.

Good for you, but others do, and present it as a major reason for their beliefs.

Thats changing your angle now. 'I feel it must be true' is not the same as, 'I got this feeling, and I know it was God'. Both are fairly useless in convincing someone of truth if all you have is this personal 'feeling'.

um... I don't think I'm changing my angle much if at all. Although maybe I was a bit sloppy there.
"I feel" roughly equals "I have this feeling"
"I know it was God" replaces "it must be True"
If fact, just swap out 'it' for 'God'.

kiffer

Dades wrote: »

You know people this doesn't have to be another "Everyone v The Christian" thread.

Sorry Dades... I'll try to be a little more sensible/conversationy.

kiffer

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

Where you to view the universe where 1 billion years passed every second you'd see it as utterly chaotic and destructive, but we have been afforded the benefit of viewing the universe burn itself out at an extremely slow rate. We get to watch each flicker of its turbulent existence and future as it happens.

We have been afforded eh? You've got to watch those sorts of things in case people start asking "afforded by whom?"

I find great peace in this knowledge about the universe and our place in it, it is a sight better than believing we are merely pawns in some celestial bickering over who has the right to the throne.

The best/worst part about the bickering is that everyone knows who'll really come out the winner... the arms dealers.

Zombrex

Jimi is agreeing that these types of feelings (emotional responses of great happiness or sadness due to external stimulation, such as walking into a church, seeing the Alps, reading the Bible/Quran/Dianetics), are human responses and are not evidence for God or a spiritual experience, which explains why all humans experience these types of phenomena, not just Christians.

While I find his comment that he has not come across this in the Christian forum a bit strange (Wolfsbane, Kelly1 and antiskeptic all commonly make appeals to the truth of their religion by referencing personal internalized emotional experience), I don't think it is necessary for people to imply that Jimi is some how doing this as well just not realising it, just so we can have an argument with him about the flaws in putting faith in these experiences.

JimiTime

Wicknight wrote: »

Jimi is agreeing that these types of feelings (emotional responses of great happiness or sadness due to external stimulation, such as walking into a church, seeing the Alps, reading the Bible/Quran/Dianetics), are human responses and are not evidence for God or a spiritual experience, which explains why all humans experience these types of phenomena, not just Christians.

Thanks. Just to clarify though, Its more the attributing these 'feelings' to God doing something directly to you that I am dubious of. I think experiences such as Love and how we feel when surrounded by beauty etc can be used in the case for God. I know you'd disagree, but do you get what I'm saying?

While I find his comment that he has not come across this in the Christian forum a bit strange (Wolfsbane, Kelly1 and antiskeptic all commonly make appeals to the truth of their religion by referencing personal internalized emotional experience),

Maybe I wasn't clear before, but I certainly do see this 'feeling' scenario get used. I just haven't seen it used specifically on the topic of biblical interpretation. I.E. i haven't seen someone use it to justify that their biblical interpretation is correct. Maybe I've missed it though.

I don't think it is necessary for people to imply that Jimi is some how doing this as well just not realising it, just so we can have an argument with him about the flaws in putting faith in these experiences.

I'm certainly not seeking an arguement, as I'm pretty much in agreement with the OP. I just thought that me as a Christian sharing the view that these personal 'feelings' are so ambiguous that they are of little value in any arguement for God, would have a bit of value to the discussion.

sink

I get the same sensation they're great moments of clarity but I would not attribute them to anything spiritual. What they are is a burst of high frequency brain waves in your right temporal lobe. The part of the brain that scientists believe pulls disparate bits of information together and solves problems creatively.

They are known as 'Aha moments' or the 'Eureka effect'. These burst of brain activity are most intense when the problem relates to broad philosophical questions as they relate to many parts of our lives and impact they way we view many things. But I also get the same feeling when I solve a particularly tricky programming problem but in a diminished form because it only relates to a very small portion of my knowledge.

Basically the broader the question the greater number of brain cells are stimulated and the more intense the feeling. One thing to note is that just because you are thinking creatively does not mean what you think is correct, creative thoughts are just as fallible as any other thought that passes through your head.

JimiTime

kiffer wrote: »

Eh... in my original post I didn't just mention the biblical interpretation, I meant it in a broader context.
That said if you were taking it in just the biblical interpretation context then I'm not surprised or even doubtful that you've not encountered it.
Keep an eye out for it... as a believer you don't necessarily question peoples motives on interpretation in the same way we do... You may never have asked people why they are so sure that their interpretation is correct over that of another groups...

Hmmmmm. Rather than get into a debate about what you think I do or don't do, I'll merely reaffirm my position. I know this 'feeling' thats often talked about by certain christians is very ambiguous and pretty useless in trying to convince others that their position is the right one. As a believer myself, I don't write their experiences off as nonsense, as maybe they are having a different experience to the ones I've had. However, their personal feelings offer little to me, and in no way validate their beliefs 'to me'. As Wicknight said, people from all walks of life describe this personal feeling. IMO, some people of faith put it down to the particular god they worship. I am open to being wrong on this, maybe the feeling I think they're having is not the one I or others have experienced. Either way though, it does little for those beyond the person experiencing them.

Good for you, but others do, and present it as a major reason for their beliefs.

I agree.

JimiTime

sink wrote: »

I get the same sensation they're great moments of clarity but I would not attribute them to anything spiritual.

The thing is, its not just about some clarity moment. In the scenario goddoesn'texist presented, being surrounded by nature and the woman you love (the oul romantic), for me its just a feeling of elation. A happiness overload of sorts. Other times it can be something else. Its like you are just so deeply moved, or inspired. Again though, as you can see, its a personal thing. IMO anyway.

Goduznt Xzst

JimiTime wrote: »

I think experiences such as Love and how we feel when surrounded by beauty etc can be used in the case for God.

Can you expand on why you hold this opinion?