Classic Porsche 911 as Daily Driver

DmitriR

Hi People

Just wondering would any of you have any thoughts/reservations about using a classic Porsche 911 as a daily driver. I actually would only be using it maybe 2-4(max) days a week and putting less than 5000miles in a year.

I'm interested in a 1974-1977 2.7/3.0. Assume full engine rebuild with all the usual suspects fixed/retrofitted e.g. steel studs fixing cylinder heads replaced, hydraulic tensioners etc. And no rust - recent respray.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Thanks
Dmitri

Traumadoc

I used mine for 2 years as an almost daily driver. Targas do leak though.

Johnboy Mac

Go for it. Much better than using it once in blue moon. Cars are ment to be driven and enjoyed if possible.

galwaytt

Daily driver isn't a problem. But if the trips are very short, it might be. Car has a lot of oil and does take a good spin to heat it thoroughly.

There was a good question like this on here a while ago HERE

PaulK_CCI

Just as Galwaytt says, if it's mainly short trips, in city traffic driving, a 911 is not the most suitable. Engine will wear a lot quicker as it generally needs about 15-20 minutes to warm up to normal operating temperature...

Have you ever considered a 912? I know it's 'not done' to plug your own stock, and mods do remove if this is contradicting boards policy, but we actually did take in a lovely sorted, black 1976 912E in recently, that could fit the bill...
http://www.classiccarsireland.eu/autos_detail.asp?ID=413)

BeardyGit

Forgive me if I'm missing something here, but if the OP wants to drive, say 5 miles to work instead of 50, and say if it takes 5 miles to come up to operating temperature in the first place, is the engine still not running for 5 miles before it warms up whether he's doing a 5 or 50 mile run?

I understand what people are thinking when they recommend against using these cars for short journeys, but if those journeys are at the same frequency as someone doing longer runs, what's the harm? It's still say 2 trips per day, with two warm up cycles etc.

I know a Kenlowe Hotstart / Pre heater on a 911 ain't happening, but would a sump heater help if you wanted to use it for shorter runs, particularly in winter?

MercMad

Gil_Dub wrote: »

Forgive me if I'm missing something here, but if the OP wants to drive, say 5 miles to work instead of 50, and say if it takes 5 miles to come up to operating temperature in the first place, is the engine still not running for 5 miles before it warms up whether he's doing a 5 or 50 mile run?

I understand what people are thinking when they recommend against using these cars for short journeys, but if those journeys are at the same frequency as someone doing longer runs, what's the harm? It's still say 2 trips per day, with two warm up cycles etc.

I know a Kenlowe Hotstart / Pre heater on a 911 ain't happening, but would a sump heater help if you wanted to use it for shorter runs, particularly in winter?

..............the oil is kept in a seperate tank.

The problem is that it will take 20 minutes at least for it to warm up properly, then really it should be given a smart blast for a few miles to get all components up to an even temperature. Sitting idling only creates hotspots.

Mind you, if I had one I take it for 20 miles in the opposite direction each morning !

peasant

The problem with not coming up to temperature is condensation. Every time you drive your car (or more precicesly, every time you switch it off) you introduce a small amount of condensaton into the engine. This gets washed into the oil the next time you start it up. When you drive for a while at operating temp, the moisture evaporates and gets "burned" out of the system again. But if you only just reach operating temperature and then switch it off again, no evaporation can take place, while condensation still happens. Do that over a prolonged period of time and the moisture content of your oil will get so high that it does more damage than good.

So, it's not just about the engine getting warm, but it has to be driven for a good bit while it is warm.

Johnboy Mac

The OP should not really have any issues with using the car when it comes to optium engine temp's.

2-4 days per week = avg. 3 days x 52 wks (presuming it's used every single week).

= 156 drives.

5000 (mls) divided by 156 = 32mls per day.

= 16 mls for each one way journey.

No probs, me thinks.

If OP has any doubts just renew oil & filter sooner than normal.

galwaytt

Gil_Dub wrote: »

Forgive me if I'm missing something here, but if the OP wants to drive, say 5 miles to work instead of 50, and say if it takes 5 miles to come up to operating temperature in the first place, is the engine still not running for 5 miles before it warms up whether he's doing a 5 or 50 mile run?

I understand what people are thinking when they recommend against using these cars for short journeys, but if those journeys are at the same frequency as someone doing longer runs, what's the harm? It's still say 2 trips per day, with two warm up cycles etc.

I know a Kenlowe Hotstart / Pre heater on a 911 ain't happening, but would a sump heater help if you wanted to use it for shorter runs, particularly in winter?

This is answered above already, but I'd just add: 5 miles is nowhere near enough in an aircooled 911. Probably as a result of that, my 87 911 needed an engine rebuild at only 94k-odd miles. Even I, try as I might, couldn't avoid short spins (which in my case was 15 miles each way), and in the course of 14 months it went noticeably downhill, wear-wise. Expensive lesson. 6k lesson, actually........

PaulK - nice 912. Makes sense, that, for an urban/suburban dweller.

Johnboy Mac

911's were built as daily drivers by Porsche and were sold as such.

With a rebuilt engine as the OP has stated and only doing on average 30mls on each trip should not be a problem imo. If this is a problem everybody should keep clear of 911's.

May concern would keeping the bodywork in good condition.

And why buy a slower 4 cylinder VW engined 912 when the OP can afford a 911? It's nearly like wanting to buy a 928 and someone suggests you get a 924.

PaulK_CCI

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

If this is a problem everybody should keep clear of 911's.

That is a hasty, incorrect conclusion. But for someone who want to use the car for daily trips commuting in and out of town, it's not the most suitable. If you intend to use the car for what is is meant to do, longer trips on the superb Irish back roads on weekends or even longer trips to the continent, a 911 is ideal.
I think it is wise to listen to people who have actually owned one for a longer period of time. I sold dozens to happy Irish customers over the years, but I always make it a point to make people fully aware of what they can expect! (and this also included educating people that a 911 is quick, but by no means fast by today's standard!! A modern hot hatch will outrun the car in a traffic light brawl )
Truth of the matter is, the 911 engines are essentially not AIRcooled, but OILcooled, so your only cooling is done by the OIL, that is why in a 911 (and beetle for that matter) it is essential that you use correct/good oil, and treat the car with care and attention and ,make sure it is warmed out properly before giving it the boot.

The more modern 3.2 and 3.6 engines are lot more tolerant, but will also require plenty of warming up!

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

And why buy a slower 4 cylinder VW engined 912 when the OP can afford a 911? It's nearly like wanting to buy a 928 and someone suggests you get a 924.

Another serious misconception! A 912 has 90bhp in a lighter car with the engine minus two cylinders at the far backend: so a much more ideal 'mid' engined setup. This makes the 912 more nimble and agile on the twisty bit, with more predictable handling, and the engine is a lot easier to tweak, maintain and repair. Then take into account that a 6 cylinder 911 is pretty heavy on the fuel, a 1,6 4 pot is a lot more user friendly as a daily driver!!!
This is ofcourse compared with the old style 911 )pre-74 where the 911T would have about 110 bhp. Also make no mistake, a US import 2.7 911 pulls out only 165bhp. Only when you go 3.0SC from 1979 onwards, that's when you start hitting the 205bhp...

Johnboy Mac

PaulK_CCI wrote: »

That is a hasty, incorrect conclusion. But for someone who want to use the car for daily trips commuting in and out of town, it's not the most suitable. If you intend to use the car for what is is meant to do, longer trips on the superb Irish back roads on weekends or even longer trips to the continent, a 911 is ideal.
I think it is wise to listen to people who have actually owned one for a longer period of time. I sold dozens to happy Irish customers over the years, but I always make it a point to make people fully aware of what they can expect! (and this also included educating people that a 911 is quick, but by no means fast by today's standard!! A modern hot hatch will outrun the car in a traffic light brawl )
Truth of the matter is, the 911 engines are essentially not AIRcooled, but OILcooled, so your only cooling is done by the OIL, that is why in a 911 (and beetle for that matter) it is essential that you use correct/good oil, and treat the car with care and attention and ,make sure it is warmed out properly before giving it the boot.

The more modern 3.2 and 3.6 engines are lot more tolerant, but will also require plenty of warming up!



Another serious misconception! A 912 has 90bhp in a lighter car with the engine minus two cylinders at the far backend: so a much more ideal 'mid' engined setup. This makes the 912 more nimble and agile on the twisty bit, with more predictable handling, and the engine is a lot easier to tweak, maintain and repair. Then take into account that a 6 cylinder 911 is pretty heavy on the fuel, a 1,6 4 pot is a lot more user friendly as a daily driver!!!
This is ofcourse compared with the old style 911 )pre-74 where the 911T would have about 110 bhp. Also make no mistake, a US import 2.7 911 pulls out only 165bhp. Only when you go 3.0SC from 1979 onwards, that's when you start hitting the 205bhp...

First off I made the concludsion on the back of a 911 owner here stating 'short' trips of 15mls each way would lead to engine problems.

As for the 912, I think the majority would be buying a 911 (non US import)if that's what they wanted and could afford just like the OP. Proper Porsche engine in a Porsche, 6 cylinders, 188/204bhp and easier to resell I'd presume.

I see 912's making £10k and 911's of the same era making £30K plus........

MercMad

Yeah I would expect 15 miles trip to be okay, once there is some open road driving and not straight into traffic.

Personally I would have no interest in a 4 cylinder, though that black one is a beaut. I would be buyting for the air cooled flat six sound above all else !

DmitriR

Great stuff thanks for all these posts.

Traumadoc wrote: »

Targas do leak though.

Thanks for that as there is some nice Targa's out there at the moment so I could have been tempted. I think I'll defo stick to a coupe.

Gil_Dub wrote: »

Forgive me if I'm missing something here, but if the OP wants to drive, say 5 miles to work instead of 50, and say if it takes 5 miles to come up to operating temperature in the first place, is the engine still not running for 5 miles before it warms up whether he's doing a 5 or 50 mile run?

I used always wonder about that too ... thanks for clearing that up posters.

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

The OP should not really have any issues with using the car when it comes to optium engine temp's.

2-4 days per week = avg. 3 days x 52 wks (presuming it's used every single week).

= 156 drives.

5000 (mls) divided by 156 = 32mls per day.

= 16 mls for each one way journey.

Nice maths Johnboy_Mac but unfortunately it wouldn't be as symmetrical as that it'd more like ...

2 days * 3 miles x 2 = 12
1/2 days * 40 * 2 = 80/160
+ odd .5 mile trip to shop etc
30->50 weeks per year = ~5000miles

As you can see there would indeed be short hops. I actually cycle everywhere and thats why I was thinking of a classic - just something to put through its paces at the weekend, bring me to the shop when its raining kind of thing. And thats basically my problem/question - is it designed for that kind of usage? And from reading the posts it doesn't seem to be. I suppose I could always make the 2 min drive to the shop into a 40 mile round trip .

PaulK_CCI - that 912 is class but I'm rather keen on a RHD ... and I see no RHD 912s for sale.

I'll keep investigating.

Thanks again everyone.

Dmitri

Johnboy Mac

DmitriR, don't be put off by what's been said. If you want a classic get one. No matter which make/model you choose their will be a downside. If 911 engines go pop after 90k miles due to be used as a daily driver so what? Your considering buying a car with a recon engine, at 5K mls p.a. there should be a good few years life in it.

No matter what you choose, enjoy it and if you can let your heart rule your head all the better within reason, we drive classics for enjoyment first and foremost. Just don't fall into the trap of buying a car and wishing you had bought something else, nothing worse imo. Good luck .

PaulK_CCI

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

DmitriR, don't be put off by what's been said. If you want a classic get one. No matter which make/model you choose their will be a downside.

I agree here!
If someone is keen on getting his/her hands on a 911, I would be the last to stand in the way, BUT I believe firmly in 'educating' people about the pro's and cons of a particular model, so that they are aware of any potential issues a car can have, but of course also the good points (which a 911 has plenty!) but balance it with knowledge and prior experience, so that at least they can make an educated decision!

In my experience in selling these cars, people can have unjustified or wrong expectations. With Porsches there are some people that are mainly interested in the styling and the shape of the early 911's, and there's others that go for the performance side of things. To be honest, if you're only after the performance, then you will be disappointed by the early 911's! I tend to jokingly advise those people they're better off with an Impreza Turbo

This by the way is in no way different from advising someone who is keen on getting an Alfa Romeo Montreal or Fiat Dino for example, with the intention of running it on a daily basis and keeping it ouside all year round (!), on the side of the street in the centre of Dublin... though this is of course possible, it's certainly not adviseable.

Kevin_Herron

Very well put Paul.
If you have ever driven a fast car an early 911 will leave you dissapointed.

Of course it is possible to drive one everyday but some people may wear tired of it very quickly.

PaulK_CCI

thank Kevin

The problem with the early 911's is that there is such huge difference in performance between the 'standard' 911 "T" (110-125bhp) and the fairly powerful "S" (170-190bhp). The price difference between the two is of course equally staggering

In my experience I have found that it's not really the physical speed/performance that a car can deliver, but the WAY it delivers it. An early 911 is a wonderfully balanced car, no power steering (as it doesnt need it), no power brakes, noisy (the fuel pump alone, will drive anyone crazy after a while!!!), cramped... but the total sum of the sound of the engine, the wriggling of the steering wheel as it moves on every ripple in the road, and the well balanced position, makes the car hugely rewarding to drive on the twisty bits (and a total bore, waiting in front of the traffic lights ). But most importantly, it manages this at reasonable speeds: doing 50-60 miles an hour gives you a rewarding drive and huge grin on your face. To achieve this feel in a Subaru or other modern power machine on the same roads, you will have to crank it up to insane speeds!!! because you are too cocooned in it.
(that is why I am not a huge fan of the modern Porsches, because I don't like having to drive a car at speeds of 100mph+ to achieve the sort of driver involvement and exitement that an older, less powerful Porsche give me at half the speeds)

Kevin_Herron

Agreed Paul!

The first time I drove an early 911 changed the way I thought about air cooled 6 cylinders forever!

galwaytt

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

911's were built as daily drivers by Porsche and were sold as such.

With a rebuilt engine as the OP has stated and only doing on average 30mls on each trip should not be a problem imo. If this is a problem everybody should keep clear of 911's.

May concern would keeping the bodywork in good condition.

And why buy a slower 4 cylinder VW engined 912 when the OP can afford a 911? It's nearly like wanting to buy a 928 and someone suggests you get a 924.

Several things there: 'daily driver' 30 years+ ago was an era devoid of the traffic we have now, and it was possible to have a clear road ahead of you........that bodywork should be good, is a given, irrespective of the car.........slower? Given a 12kph average city centre traffic speed, all cars are quick.....including 912's........

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

First off I made the concludsion on the back of a 911 owner here stating 'short' trips of 15mls each way would lead to engine problems.........

Yes, it will. It will lead to accelerated wear, not immediately, of course, but it will.

MercMad wrote: »

Yeah I would expect 15 miles trip to be okay, once there is some open road driving and not straight into traffic.

OP has stated it's for 'popping' down to the shops, so realistically, that's a traffic-ed environment, so I'm just laying out the +/- 's before spending his hard-earned.

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

DmitriR, don't be put off by what's been said. .... If 911 engines go pop after 90k miles due to be used as a daily driver so what? Your considering buying a car with a recon engine, at 5K mls p.a. there should be a good few years life in it.

I'm not putting anyone off - I'm just putting the €€ cards on the table. The OP can make up his own mind. And it didn't go pop after 90k miles of 'daily driver' use. It just got v tired v quickly, based on daily driver use once it had passed a certain age. As OP is looking at old cars, that may still hold true, for him.

OP - as long as you take The Long Way Round, to the shops, you'll be fine !

Johnboy Mac

galwaytt wrote: »

Several things there: 'daily driver' 30 years+ ago was an era devoid of the traffic we have now, and it was possible to have a clear road ahead of you........that bodywork should be good, is a given, irrespective of the car.........slower? Given a 12kph average city centre traffic speed, all cars are quick.....including 912's........

Yes, it will. It will lead to accelerated wear, not immediately, of course, but it will.

OP has stated it's for 'popping' down to the shops, so realistically, that's a traffic-ed environment, so I'm just laying out the +/- 's before spending his hard-earned.

I'm not putting anyone off - I'm just putting the €€ cards on the table. The OP can make up his own mind. And it didn't go pop after 90k miles of 'daily driver' use. It just got v tired v quickly, based on daily driver use once it had passed a certain age. As OP is looking at old cars, that may still hold true, for him.

OP - as long as you take The Long Way Round, to the shops, you'll be fine !

So a simple question why have you got a 911 instead of a 912 and how come you used yours for short trips of 15mls?

Why in the early 80's did I see dozens of them in German & Dutch towns & cities, especially since The Netherlands and Bravaria were even then far more densely populated than here, were all these owners unaware of the fact that you can't use their Porsche's as daily drivers?

Anyway I'm suspried at yourself and the dealer here putting a potential owner off the purchase of an iconic car and to cap it all off you advise and agree he should consider purchasing a 912.

Lucky for me I suppose I'm a non 911 fan (maybe something to do with lack of driving skills and knowing the engine is in the wrong place).

Interesting discussion all the same.

PaulK_CCI

please don't take this the wrong way , but I think you are completely missing the point here.
We don't discourage anyone to buy a specific classic, and I would be the last to play the 911 down, but we just merely try to give the OP advice based on his intended use for the car and his possible expectations (on the experience of owning/driving/selling Classic Cars in Ireland since 1996, including dozens of 911's and 912's).

So the issue here should not be wether the 911 can or can not be a practical daily driver. Of course it can, but it's probably not the best car for the specific requirements that the OP is intending to use it for. In this case, and in my experience, I have found, that generally a 912 could do just as well, that is why I suggested it (note the 'could'! If the person would insist on a 911, sure, why not, but as galwaytt suggest, I would reckon he would grow tired of it fairly quickly, as a 911 just simply does not like sitting in traffic when cold).
So where do you think is the harm in at least suggesting to the person, that it might not be the right choice for what he is intending it for. There is big difference in us saying that a 911 is not suitable for daily driving, because that is not what we are claiming here.

Oh and by the way, your suggestion that in the early 80-ies loads of Porsches were driving around, used as daily drivers, don;t forget, these cars were only a couple of years old, so of course they would have been used for daily driving, but also don't forget, that in Holland and Germany, driving in and out of work in those days did not neccesarily mean sitting in a congested city traffic jam for 15 minutes. Here is Holland and Germany you slip onto a motorway within minutes, and easily cover 20-30 miles in no time... also in the eighties, when Ireland only had about about two miles of M1 . And if the OP would have lived in say County Carlow, and had to do a daily run into the outskirts of Dublin, so a 45 minute run each way, than a 911 could have been an excellent candidate!!

Finally, you shouldn't play the 912 down as being a much less desireable option to a 911. This is clearly a statement from someone who has never driven one, let alone a 911. I have owned both, and they each have their own unique features, but on the handling side of things, I'd much rather drive a well setup 912 than a 911T !!!

I think if someone really would like to have a early 911 (or any classic car for that matter) it would be better if they take it on as at least a 2nd car. because although there are cars that are better suitable for daily driving, essentially all classics are 30+ years old, so there will always be a risk involved that something gives in, and if you have to depend on it as your only vehicle, you have to make allowances for the fact that it could be out of action for a couple of days because you have to order in a rare part.

Johnboy Mac

PaulK_CCI wrote: »

Finally, you shouldn't play the 912 down as being a much less desireable option to a 911. This is clearly a statement from someone who has never driven one, let alone a 911.


/quote]


Incorrect. Good possibility I drove a 911 before you ever new what they were. But you are correct about the 912, never driven one, saw only a couple ever and would have no real interest in one.

You came on here advertising your goods and trying to sell a 912 to somebody that wanted a 911 which in my opinion is wrong on several counts. I reckon you never though that somebody would disagree with your offering , somebody wants apples and you want to sell oranges (US spec. at that). And now you can't back down for the simple fact you need to justify your sales offering. Sad and wrong.

PaulK_CCI

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

Incorrect. Good possibility I drove a 911 before you ever new what they were. But you are correct about the 912, never driven one, saw only a couple ever and would have no real interest in one.

Fair play, although again, whithout having ever driven a 912, I would be hesitant to slate them. The fact that you are not interested in it, doesn't mean others should not be either. I guess everyone is allowed to make their own choices, but likewise, everyone is allowed to comment on, suggest and agree or disagree with things that's what makes this discussion interesting, and we should avoid getting personal over this. If I came accross to you as if I have been, then I do apologize, as this is not my intention.

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

You came on here advertising your goods and trying to sell a 912 to somebody that wanted a 911 which in my opinion is wrong on several counts. I reckon you never though that somebody would disagree with your offering , somebody wants apples and you want to sell oranges (US spec. at that). And now you can't back down for the simple fact you need to justify your sales offering. Sad and wrong.

That I advertise the 912 is just because I know the car in question and it was an (admittedly) handy way to make a point. However, I did seek permission for this and if I had been asked to remove the link, I would be more than happy to do so. Furthermore, there is no need for me to 'back down' because I also have several 911's in stock, so wether I would raise interest in a 912 or a 911 would be all the same for me but for what the OP of this thread is intending to use the car for, I still feel a 911 would not be the best choice...

Johnboy Mac

PaulK_CCI wrote: »

, whithout having ever driven a 912, I would be hesitant to slate them. The fact that you are not interested in it, doesn't mean others should not be either.

I'm not slating the 912. I don't like 911's never mind VW engined 912's with 90bhp 'fours' which have only risen in popularity on the back of 911's due to their ever increasing values. The only things I like are icoinic shape and beautiful sounding flat six of a 911, anything that based on a 30's designed Bettle is well past it sell by date imo.

More importantly, remember I'm the guy who was encouraging the OP to buy a classic 911 (even though I'm not a fan) until several posters like yourself did a good job of putting him off. With a bit of luck he might buy a 928 now!

PaulK_CCI

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

VW engined 912's with 90bhp 'fours' !

a 912 has a proper Porsche engine: the 90bhp out of the 356SC. Nothing VW apart from indeed the heritage.... It was run along the 911 for those that could not afford to significantly more expensive 911 at the time.

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

...anything that based on a 30's designed Bettle is well past it sell by date imo.

The flat six in the 911 is ALSO an evolvement from the good ole VW engine, same basic design and setup, except for two extra cylinder. And by the way, ALL classics are effectively well past their sell by date

The 912E on the other hand, has indeed the 2.0 VW Type 3 L-jetronic engine, but that doesn't make it lesser car.

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

The only things I like are icoinic shape and beautiful sounding flat six of a 911

The only point I was trying to make was, that for a lot of people the essence of owning a classic Porsche is 75% "iconic shape" and 25% "beautiful sounding flat six". For those people, a 912 could be an option they hadn't considered before. For al others, a 912 would indeed not do it for them

Johnboy Mac

PaulK_CCI wrote: »

a 912 has a proper Porsche engine: the 90bhp out of the 356SC. Nothing VW apart from indeed the heritage.... It was run along the 911 for those that could not afford to significantly more expensive 911 at the time.


B*llox, where do you think the 356 engine came from originally? Now your getting silly.

The flat six in the 911 is ALSO an evolvement from the good ole VW engine, same basic design and setup, except for two extra cylinder. And by the way, ALL classics are effectively well past their sell by date

There's a big difference between any 4 & 6 cyl engine by simple virtue of two extra cylinders, basic stuff really.

Some classics are far better & safer than a classic with it engine located out back trying to defy the laws of physics while it's ok for a 25 bhp Bettle in the 30's but not with a 70's car powered by a heavier 6 cyl and 110 - 260bhp

The 912E on the other hand, has indeed the 2.0 VW Type 3 L-jetronic engine, but that doesn't make it lesser car.

Type 3, VW van engine..................................

All in all I'd say you should really stick to selling 912's , I've never seen or heard of a 912 being talked up so much against a 911! I'm so glad I don't own a 911 or aspire to ownership. Imagine paying £20k or much more for one and you could buy a 912 for £10k or less...................................

galwaytt

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

So a simple question why have you got a 911 instead of a 912 and how come you used yours for short trips of 15mls?

You need to read back.....I DON'T have a 911. Not anymore.

I don't have a 911 BECAUSE of the short trips issue.

I DON'T have a 912, either. But I know a man who does. (And no, it's not PaulCCI's).

For me, short trips, traffic (aka real life), 2 kids, school runs, carrying kid's bicycles etc, weekly shopping, reliability, etc, but still wanting to drive a P-car, led me down the front-engine watercooled route, and I've found it such a revelation.

It's still a P-car, same tax, same insurance, more civil/modern to be in, reliability, automatic (tiptronic) and a bonus is the lower maintenance.

So I'm an each-to-their own person. The OP asked a question I have direct personal experience of, and on that merit, it stands.

As you say yourself.........you've never had a 911.........

BeardyGit

@ Johnboy Mac - You should take the time to read through some of Paul's past contributions on the classics forum. I'm not being a smartarse when I point this out, but you're somewhat new (and most welcome of course!) and maybe your take on peoples contributions has been tainted a little by some of what goes on elsewhere on these vboards - Not everyone's as straight talking and helpful as here on classics. I only know Paul really from here, although he's also been well happy to chat with me about cars and give me first hand advice, including motors he doesn't sell or source, but that he has history in dealing with. That's the kind of golden input that enthusiasts share here. I get you completely though - It looks like he's hammering out the 912 in some ways, but trust us, that's not actually intended the way you or I might first think. He's mentioned it because he knows what he's talking about, and he knows the car. He's steered a good few boardsies clear of classics that would have broken their hearts, and not in preference for his stock, but more to save fellow 'classics' visitors the headache and hassle of a mistaken purchase....

Just wanted to clear that up, as someone with no vested interests or anything like that.

MercMad

Gil_Dub wrote: »

@ Johnboy Mac - You should take the time to read through some of Paul's past contributions on the classics forum. I'm not being a smartarse when I point this out, but you're somewhat new (and most welcome of course!) and maybe your take on peoples contributions has been tainted a little by some of what goes on elsewhere on these vboards - Not everyone's as straight talking and helpful as here on classics. I only know Paul really from here, although he's also been well happy to chat with me about cars and give me first hand advice, including motors he doesn't sell or source, but that he has history in dealing with. That's the kind of golden input that enthusiasts share here. I get you completely though - It looks like he's hammering out the 912 in some ways, but trust us, that's not actually intended the way you or I might first think. He's mentioned it because he knows what he's talking about, and he knows the car. He's steered a good few boardsies clear of classics that would have broken their hearts, and not in preference for his stock, but more to save fellow 'classics' visitors the headache and hassle of a mistaken purchase....

Just wanted to clear that up, as someone with no vested interests or anything like that.

+1

Well said...........now can we go back to being friends

Johnboy Mac

MercMad wrote: »

+1

Well said...........now can we go back to being friends

No falling out on my part at all or I'm sure on anyone elses for that matter, cars & classic cars are subjective and personal which is actually one of their attractions. I'm fairly certain not everybody would desire my current or previous classics.

Imo advertising (and being allowed too) a product which the OP did'nt actually inquire about is out of order. The OP inquired about a 911 which for many is a 'dream' classic which is understandable and was offered 912 and U.S. spec to boot. To compound this the seller tried very hard to justify his offering as we all can see from the threads and I really believe never expected to be challanged and was supported by other posters before I stuck my oar in, thus the long debate.

Considering the OP was willing to purchase a 911 with a rebuilt engine etc, I'm sure he would get many years of enjoyable motoring before the engine went 'pop' so the suitability of a 911 was particually good for a 30 year old daily classic - how long before a the sellers 912 would require an engine rebuild even if it cost less than half the costs of a 6cyl rebuild?

It's a shame somebody did'nt make a comment like:

70's 911's are not really suitable for daily classic use as this will shorten the engine life as 911's area better proposition for medium to long distance use. But since you (the OP) are looking to purchase a 911 with a rebuilt engine etc, it could be used for a daily driver but expect engine rebuild costs to occur sooner due to short commutes.

Also the OP could have been given a reasonable idea of when an engine rebuild would be required if used as originally intended by the OP.

My input for what it's worth now gives the OP a slightly better balanced view on the proposed 912 offering over a 911, as one could have assumed from the sellers threads that a 912 is the far better classic overall which clearly is not the case, the market values make this very clear never mind my views or the sellers, used daily or otherwise.

One final point, I respect almost every classic owners or sellers view as I said earlier it's a subjective & personal, but it's good for all of us to challanged from time to time and debate classics or whatever.

All comments are from the guy that overall dislikes 911's but respects their owners choice and is delighted to see them out on our roads while fossil fuel lasts.

galwaytt

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

......All comments are from the guy that overall dislikes 911's but respects their owners choice and is delighted to see them out on our roads while fossil fuel lasts.

which reminds me, I have an idea for 'bumper sticker' - "It's my oil too ! "

I think it'd be a winner.......:D

alastair

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

Imo advertising (and being allowed too) a product which the OP did'nt actually inquire about is out of order.

Oh please!

PaulK_CCI offered an informed opinion - clearly more informed than your own - given that he's experience with both cars. He's in the business of flogging 911's, 912's, and a rash of other models, so it's no skin off his back what the OP chooses in the final analysis.

And - for what it's worth, this isn't the first time that your posting tone has come across as pompous. Just something to consider or ignore - as you please.

Johnboy Mac

alastair wrote: »

And - for what it's worth, this isn't the first time that your posting tone has come across as pompous. Just something to consider or ignore - as you please.

Hmmmm, great input!

PaulK_CCI

thanks guys, i would reckon 'nuf said here'

Dades

Johnboy Mac, put away your shovel.

Seriously, people here appreciate Pauls input without getting paranoid that they're being sold something. Even if he tickles the fancy of a buyer with a car on his books - the car & price will have to withstand the scrutiny of the other contributors here first!