Lions left behind

MG

Somesaid yesterday that the strength of the Lions could be judged by the players left behind. Here is my team left behind. Admittedly lacking in a couple of poistions but not a bad team.

1. Horan
2. Ford or Best
3. Hayes
4. Kennedy
5. Hamilton or Borthwick
6. Croft
7. Leamy
8. R Jones
9. Blair/Cusitor/Peel
10. Hook
11. Cueto
12. Flood (out half cover as well)
13 Darcy
14. Evans
15. Armitage

Subs
Jacobson
Ford/Best
Hamilton/Borthwick
Hogg
Blair/Cusitor/Peel
Paterson
Tindall

anonymous_joe

Leamy's not a 7 - put in the Quins lad (Skinner is it?) or Jennings on the basis of being the two 7s furthest advanced in European competition.

Lose Hayes and Horan potentially, there are probably better. Hell Healy can outscrummage Hayes.

I'd put Leo Cullen and Nick Kennedy at second row.

Rest looks about right, though Paddy Wallace might deserve a place in the squad you'd put together.

curts82

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Leamy's not a 7 - put in the Quins lad (Skinner is it?) or Jennings on the basis of being the two 7s furthest advanced in European competition.

Lose Hayes and Horan potentially, there are probably better. Hell Healy can outscrummage Hayes.

I'd put Leo Cullen and Nick Kennedy at second row.

Rest looks about right, though Paddy Wallace might deserve a place in the squad you'd put together.

May I ask why Cullen? Mick O Dris is ahead of him in Irish squad and a much better player! No mention of Stringer who is on fire at mo

Podge_irl

curts82 wrote: »

May I ask why Cullen? Mick O Dris is ahead of him in Irish squad and a much better player!

Cullen has been injured most of the season, so MOD is not necessarily ahead of him. Nor is he a much better player. Wouldn't consider either of them for this kind of team though.

gearstick

swap kennedy for gough, and hook for cipriani nd you pretty much have the team on standby

buck65

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Leamy's not a 7 - put in the Quins lad (Skinner is it?) or Jennings on the basis of being the two 7s furthest advanced in European competition.

Lose Hayes and Horan potentially, there are probably better. Hell Healy can outscrummage Hayes.

Basically replace all the Munster (all grand slam and double HCup winners) guys and replace with Jennings, Healy and erm someone else. Hilarious.

anonymous_joe

curts82 wrote: »

May I ask why Cullen? Mick O Dris is ahead of him in Irish squad and a much better player! No mention of Stringer who is on fire at mo

Cullen's underrated.

Played very well against Munster and was fantastic against Harlequins.

Think Leinster've really missed him most of the system.

Podge_irl wrote: »

Cullen has been injured most of the season, so MOD is not necessarily ahead of him. Nor is he a much better player. Wouldn't consider either of them for this kind of team though.

Well...

Cullen's playing in the latter stages of Europe, something guys like Gough (who I must confess I forgot about ) aren't doing.

bamboozle

curts82 wrote: »

May I ask why Cullen? Mick O Dris is ahead of him in Irish squad and a much better player! No mention of Stringer who is on fire at mo

Leo Cullen, Mal O'Kelly, Donncadh Ryan, Bob Casey, Trevor Hogan and possibly Ryan Caldwell are all far better players than Mick O'Driscoll, thats why he's played more in the AIL this season than in the Heiniken Cup.

Dare i suggest Mick O'Driscoll's close rugby relationship over the years with kidney saw him get his place in the Irish squad ahead of far better players.

anonymous_joe

bamboozle wrote: »

Leo Cullen, Mal O'Kelly, Donncadh Ryan, Bob Casey, Trevor Hogan and possibly Ryan Caldwell are all far better players than Mick O'Driscoll, thats why he's played more in the AIL this season than in the Heiniken Cup.

Dare i suggest Mick O'Driscoll's close rugby relationship over the years with kidney saw him get his place in the Irish squad ahead of far better players.

Suggest away. We all know Eoin Reddan's an awful player because Wasps are doing badly but half the England team are good players on bad form. :pac:

theKramer

bamboozle wrote: »

Dare i suggest Mick O'Driscoll's close rugby relationship over the years with kidney saw him get his place in the Irish squad ahead of far better players.

Mick O'Driscoll was brought in to the Irish squad this year coz Malcom O'Kelly was dropped coz he couldnt do a simple thing such as show up on time for training..... :rolleyes:

Podge_irl

buck65 wrote: »

Basically replace all the Munster (all grand slam and double HCup winners) guys and replace with Jennings, Healy and erm someone else. Hilarious.

Replace a Munster player playing out of position (Leamy is not a seven) with a HEC semi-finalist. (not that I would put Jennings there mind). He also didn't suggest replacing Horan with Healy, he suggested replacing Hayes because he was out-scrummaged by a 21 year old prop, which is not a ridiculous observation to make.

MG

Podge_irl wrote: »

Replace a Munster player playing out of position (Leamy is not a seven) with a HEC semi-finalist. (not that I would put Jennings there mind). He also didn't suggest replacing Horan with Healy, he suggested replacing Hayes because he was out-scrummaged by a 21 year old prop, which is not a ridiculous observation to make.

Leamy has often played 7 for both Munster and Ireland. Not his best position at all but this is a Lions team, not an Irish team. No way Jennings would tour ahead of Leamy or say Jonathon Thomas.

No way either that Cullen, Micko or Cian Healy would tour ahead of more established internationals from the other nations - the likes of Jacobson, Jason White, Charteris etc. Same for Reddan and Stringer- they'd never tour ahead of Blair, Peel or Cusitor.

premierstone

bamboozle wrote: »

Leo Cullen, Mal O'Kelly, Donncadh Ryan, Bob Casey, Trevor Hogan and possibly Ryan Caldwell are all far better players than Mick O'Driscoll, thats why he's played more in the AIL this season than in the Heiniken Cup.

Dare i suggest Mick O'Driscoll's close rugby relationship over the years with kidney saw him get his place in the Irish squad ahead of far better players.

I lol'd the reason Micko has been playing magners league and AIL is to do with the fact that 2 of the 3 best 2nd rows in the NH are in the same squad - and btw I say this as someone from there home club but when was the last time you seen Donaccha Ryan or Trevor Hogan have a good game, Donnacha has defo had a bad year and Trevor has never really recovered from he's injury problems

Podge_irl

MG wrote: »

Leamy has often played 7 for both Munster and Ireland. Not his best position at all but this is a Lions team, not an Irish team. No way Jennings would tour ahead of Leamy or say Jonathon Thomas.

No way either that Cullen, Micko or Cian Healy would tour ahead of more established internationals from the other nations - the likes of Jacobson, Jason White, Charteris etc. Same for Reddan and Stringer- they'd never tour ahead of Blair, Peel or Cusitor.

Well its the best players left behind, rather then a Lions team but I get your point. Leamy is clearly one of the best left behind and is probably on the stand-by list, but whatever about playing at 7 the odd time (and he has to my knowledge only played there once for Ireland and it was not a success) he isn't as good a 7 as Jennings or a host of other candidates. Mind you, thinking about it now I'm not sure who I think would be on stand-by if Williams/Wallace get injured. One of the Scots?

I agree on the rest (though again, no one actually suggested Healy for the team).

anonymous_joe

Podge_irl wrote: »

Well its the best players left behind, rather then a Lions team but I get your point. Leamy is clearly one of the best left behind and is probably on the stand-by list, but whatever about playing at 7 the odd time (and he has to my knowledge only played there once for Ireland and it was not a success) he isn't as good a 7 as Jennings or a host of other candidates. Mind you, thinking about it now I'm not sure who I think would be on stand-by if Williams/Wallace get injured. One of the Scots?

I agree on the rest (though again, no one actually suggested Healy for the team).

Hines is a lock and Murray a prop.

If Williams or Wallace is injured I'd surmise a call would be made for a Worsley or something. Maybe a Scot, they've some decent flankers. Because the only Irish 7's of note outside the squad are O'Connor (not the same man who was at Wasps ), Niall Ronan and Shane Jennings, while Wales have a Thomas I think, England tried Armitage there over the 6 Nations who was fairly awful, while Worsely would be a very defensive option and not much of an attacking threat.

Podge_irl

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Hines is a lock and Murray a prop.

Eh....I know. I meant one of the Scot backrows might be called up. But its certainly far from clear who would be next in line for an openside spot.

anonymous_joe

Podge_irl wrote: »

Eh....I know. I meant one of the Scot backrows might be called up. But its certainly far from clear who would be next in line for an openside spot.

Sorry, my bad.

Is Barclay the openside? The young one the Scots are raving about. Glasgow I think.

MG

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Is Barclay the openside? The young one the Scots are raving about. Glasgow I think.

Yeah that's him....as you say the Scots were raving about him but he had an awful 6 nations.....replaced by Scott Gray for the last game I think and was subbed a few times Had Barclay on my fantasy rugby team and he was a disaster.:(

Dev7

I'd have Tom Rees as my back up 7, class player

barnesd

MG wrote: »

Yeah that's him....as you say the Scots were raving about him but he had an awful 6 nations.....replaced by Scott Gray for the last game I think and was subbed a few times Had Barclay on my fantasy rugby team and he was a disaster.:(

He didn't have an awful 6N, he's a good player but doesn't suit Scotlands style of play at all, they are just so defensive and conservative. If you remember the France - Scotland game, any time one of those Evans lads made a break Barclay was the only other Scots player even remotely on their wavelength, he'd be invariably there to take an offload or hit the ruck but they were so isolated most of the time it came to nothing. He's got all the traits and awareness of a good 7.

MG

barnesd wrote: »

He didn't have an awful 6N, he's a good player but doesn't suit Scotlands style of play at all, they are just so defensive and conservative. If you remember the France - Scotland game, any time one of those Evans lads made a break Barclay was the only other Scots player even remotely on their wavelength, he'd be invariably there to take an offload or hit the ruck but they were so isolated most of the time it came to nothing. He's got all the traits and awareness of a good 7.

He's a good player alright - that's why I expected him to have a good 6N but he didn't. An openside is the one player who should be able to prosper in either an open or conservative side. But again I have to say he didn't. Before the 6N I expected him to be the star Scot and a dark horse for the Lions but I think he played himself out of contention.