IAA Class 1/2 Medical Refusal on Eyesight

Swingingdoor

Hey Everyone,

This is my first post and thread in here.


I just wanted to gather a few opinions, some advice, or whatever on said subject. I am currently going through my PPL and have done 17 hours and was just cleared to fly solo. I know it's my own fault for not getting the medical done first but I just loved the flying so much that I think sub-conciously I deliberately left the medical late.
But anyways after being cleared to fly solo I was told I need at least a class 2 medical, but seeing as the plan is to go commercial I thought it best to attempt a class 1 medical to see if the whole thing was worth while.

I failed the Class 1 medical on eyesight I have 2.5 astigmatism in each eye with the IAA limiting astigmatism to 2.0 dioptres. GUTTED! To say the least. Even more so when they stated that I couldn't even pass for the issue of a Class 2 to finish PPL.

Was wondering if anyone else is/was in this situation before? I would appreciate any advice, suggestions, or opinions. So please drop a line on this thread or feel free to send me an IM if you get the chance.

Thanks for reading guys!

TheCosmicFrog

I hope to take the medical some time in the future. I'm scared sh*tless about the hearing test though. What's the hearing test like?

ian.k

TheCosmicFrog wrote: »

I hope to take the medical some time in the future. I'm scared sh*tless about the hearing test though. What's the hearing test like?

For the class 1 they put you in a tiny sealed room(or big box:D), you wear a headset and they play a series of tones into either ear which progressively get higher/lower pitched and lower volume until they are barely audible, you just press a button if you hear a tone. It's not too bad but it is fairly thorough.

.... OP, you could always try for a caa medical. I've heard they're not as strict, how true that is i've no idea , this might help :
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=49&pagetype=90&pageid=534

TheCosmicFrog

ian.k wrote: »

For the class 1 they put you in a tiny sealed room(or big box:D), you wear a headset and they play a series of tones into either ear which progressively get higher/lower pitched and lower volume until they are barely audible, you just press a button if you hear a tone. It's not too bad but it is fairly thorough.

.... OP, you could always try for a caa medical. I've heard they're not as strict, how true that is i've no idea , this might help :
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=49&pagetype=90&pageid=534

Brilliant, thanks!

EoinC010

I done my medical a few months ago, its no problem... Don't worry bout it... Eyesight is a colourblind test where the show you a book with a number in coloured dots, all you have to do is say the number, the other is a book with small text, all you do is read the test. The hearing is the headphones, they do a heart rate test, a breath test and take a urine and blood sample. This was my Class 2. Had a friend who took the Class 1 and failed too on eyesight, it seems to be common enough...

Owen

Swingingdoor wrote: »

I failed the Class 1 medical on eyesight I have 2.5 astigmatism in each eye with the IAA limiting astigmatism to 2.0 dioptres. GUTTED! To say the least.

Steve, is that you? If not, you're not the only person in Ireland with the same issue!

pclancy

Yes. I'm in exactly the same situation except I havent done as many hours. I cant get a class 2 either because my left eye is 6/60> and right is 6/9 I think. Im considered monocular. I have no problem seeing traffic when flying, nor airports or the cockpit instruments. I'm not bothered by glare too much and have normal colour vision but they wont let me fly either! I won a trophy before Xmas for my non-precision circuits and i've bascially continued flying just for fun, going up to do circuits, cross country trips or ILS approaches, all with instructors obvisouly but with different aircraft to vary the experience. You just have to accept you'll never fly anything big by yourself without an instructor, but there's no limit to the number of lessons you can take and still enjoy the hobby.

What about other types of flying-Im totally out of touch with the JAA requirements for gliders, microlights, handgliders, balloons etc being in NZ so maybe thats an option? Gliding is something im itching to try when I can get down to the South Island again.

I'd kill to be a pilot as a job but never will so feck it, just have to focus on the other fun areas of aviation and keep up the day job to fund them.

diverdriver

I think the CAA are just as strict, if not more. We are all JAA after all. But they may have flexibility in certain things. You might also look at an FAA licence.

Stupid question, as I know nothing about eyesight. But is there no way glasses can correct the problem even for a class 2?

It just makes me feel grateful I never had eyesight problems, well until now that the old reading glass issue had cropped up.

JustaJourno

Hi..

Dont be too disheartened. Do you wear glasses? If you don't, I suggest going to an eye specialist and seek their opinion. The IAA may even refer you for an appointment if you persist them.

The CAA in the UK issue the same medical (under JAR) but it is known that the IAA are very strict and black and white when it comes to medical issues. If you definitely can't get it here, its worth a shot doing it in the UK, even if its not successful.

Also, I'm surprised they told you they can't certify you for a Class 2, because JAR FCL 3 (document which details all medical requirements for Class1 and 2) states the limit is 3.0 dioptres for Class 2;

...
(2) Astigmatism
(i) In an initial applicant with a
refractive error with an astigmatic
component, the astigmatism shall not
exceed [ ][3,0] dioptres.

Full document here: http://www.jaa.nl/publications/jars/606984.pdf

Anyway, best of luck. Don't let this knock you back if you want to be a pilot. The woman in the IAA who issues medicals is a very unpleasant person to deal with, and shows no flexibility. But don't give up, and you will get places.

Good luck.

pclancy

diverdriver wrote: »

Stupid question, as I know nothing about eyesight. But is there no way glasses can correct the problem even for a class 2?

Sometimes even with glasses and vision being good enough to drive for example, they still refuse. My experience was that because my left eye is so bad, if something happened to my right eye I wouldnt be able to land or see other traffic i guess.

Swingingdoor

JustaJourno wrote: »

Anyway, best of luck. Don't let this knock you back if you want to be a pilot. The woman in the IAA who issues medicals is a very unpleasant person to deal with, and shows no flexibility. But don't give up, and you will get places.

Good luck.

I hear ya brother. She was very quick off the mark to say no, without offering any other advice.

Heading over to CAA at Stansted for a class 2 initial. I got chatting to the doctor on the phone, very relaxed and informative man, really put my mind and rest, and really seems like a lad that wants to help you out. So fingers crossed all goes to plan!

Thanks everyone for the replies!

Happy Landings!

pclancy

Good luck.

MicK10rt

I know from experience that the person dealing with the issueing of class 1 medical certificates in the IAA is very unproffesional and unjust in her analysist of applicants. I failed the medical because of my lazy eye. Basically the examiner was unable to prove that I don't suffer from double vision or binocular vision. I do not under any circumstance suffer from double vision. I find it very hard to accept her decision. I'm rely at logger heads as to what to do next. If any one is in a similar position or has some advise I would most appriciate it.

Delta Kilo

MicK10rt wrote: »

I know from experience that the person dealing with the issueing of class 1 medical certificates in the IAA is very unproffesional and unjust in her analysist of applicants. I failed the medical because of my lazy eye. Basically the examiner was unable to prove that I don't suffer from double vision or binocular vision. I do not under any circumstance suffer from double vision. I find it very hard to accept her decision. I'm rely at logger heads as to what to do next. If any one is in a similar position or has some advise I would most appriciate it.

Go to the UK and do the Class 1 medical there. I think it is widely accepted that they arent as strict as the IAA

the beerhunter

MicK10rt wrote: »

I know from experience that the person dealing with the issueing of class 1 medical certificates in the IAA is very unproffesional and unjust in her analysist of applicants.

herself has moved on.

on a different tack, laser-eye surgery is an option for getting over the vision hurdle. i know two people who this worked for, but obviously check with a doctor first whether or not it will solve your problem.

MicK10rt

Hey thanks very much for the swift replys. Laser wouldn't work in this case I think. Its still a problem with binocular vision. What implications would be associated wiith getting a class 1 in England i.e would I have to do my training there?, work there?

donkey balls

MicK10rt wrote: »

Hey thanks very much for the swift replys. Laser wouldn't work in this case I think. Its still a problem with binocular vision. What implications would be associated wiith getting a class 1 in England i.e would I have to do my training there?, work there?

I also failed my initial Class 1 due to the lazy eye I went off and got the aul glasses and passed a few months later,Lazer surgery wont work for everyone as for the Aeromed team not once ever did I have a problem with them.
As for doing the class 1 in the Uk it works out alot cheaper and is regonised here by the IAA also both the CAA&IAA normally transfer licences&ratings between both member countries so there used to the process of swapping Med 1 etc.

Manic Moran

Before spending any money at all, I went and got a First Class medical, to make sure I could do most anything I put my mind to. Passed it, but barely. (And as medicals are public record in the US, I suddenly got a lot of very interesting and irrelevant to my standing as a pre-student junk mail.) I'm right on the borderline due to a slight colour deficiency. The FAA allows one to miss I think up to six of those god-awful dot plates, I'm right at that.

However, First Classes are generally only required for Air Transport Pilot licenses, for scheduled commercial passenger service. As I don't think I'm going to be heading that way as a career, I'm quite happy only working with a Second Class, which has slightly looser requirements, and get a general Commerical certificate doing flight instruction or some such on the side as a bit of pocket money.

Where I'm going is 'if you really love flying, then don't be kept out of the cockpit just because you can't fly for Aer Lingus or whoever.' Get the medical you can, and fly accordingly.

NTM

Cessna_Pilot

Do it with the CAA. I hold an IAA issued Class one but for renewals wouldn't dream of doing it in Ireland. Always go to the UK to sit it.

MicK10rt

Thanks all for the advise. From what i gather it seems to be easier to obtain a class 1 certificate in from the CAA. Its something I've always wanted to do. At this stage I would be happy just to get into the air in any form but really the goal at the end of the day would be to fly commercially.

xflyer

I'm not sure where people get the idea the CAA is easier when it comes to medicals. If you don't meet the standard you won't pass any class 1. The initial class 1 is to a higher standard than any renewal. What the CAA do is demonstrate higher levels of flexibility and may use slighter different tests particularly for colour vision.

As for the 'lazy eye' go to an Opthamologist and get it sorted if you can, although it may be too late. One of my kids had that problem and wears glasses to correct it. But I was told that unless it's caught early it may not be possible. Don't go to the CAA unless you're sure you will pass with your problem.

globemaster1986

the beerhunter wrote: »

herself has moved on.

on a different tack, laser-eye surgery is an option for getting over the vision hurdle. i know two people who this worked for, but obviously check with a doctor first whether or not it will solve your problem.

The Dutch lady? Since when may I ask?

searescue

EoinC010 wrote: »

I done my medical a few months ago, its no problem... Don't worry bout it... Eyesight is a colourblind test where the show you a book with a number in coloured dots, all you have to do is say the number, the other is a book with small text, all you do is read the test. The hearing is the headphones, they do a heart rate test, a breath test and take a urine and blood sample. This was my Class 2. Had a friend who took the Class 1 and failed too on eyesight, it seems to be common enough...

Jesus! Your class 2 was alot more thorough than mine.

I did the urine test, read the book for the eyetest (also wear glasses so I brought the optamologlist report. I'm actually +5 dioptres in my right eye and the limit is +5 but was no problem). Also did the colour test, there's one there and you might think there's something wrong because you can see no number...it's a trick one. For the hearing test I had the headphones on and kept laughing through it as I was told that I'd be in a very quiet room....window wide open and cars flying by, no problem though.

After that I went into the doctor, all he asked me to do was touch my toes and then bend to each side as much as I can.....Class 2 stamped, paid €130, sorted.

donkey balls

When I failed my intitial class 1 they gave me a class 2 med (iaa)yet when I had an FAA class 2 the doc noted on my medical that i needed corective eye wear:eek:

AlSC

searescue wrote: »

Jesus! Your class 2 was alot more thorough than mine.

I did the urine test, read the book for the eyetest (also wear glasses so I brought the optamologlist report). For the hearing test I had the headphones on, no problem though. After that I went into the doctor, all he asked me to do was touch my toes and then bend to each side as much as I can.....Class 2 stamped, paid €130, sorted.

Where did you do it, searescue?

LeftBase

I have a blood condition(Haemochromatosis meaning my blood is too Iron rich) and "herself" failed me for my Class one. I got a letter from my Haemotologist(which was the 2nd one as I presented one with my blood work the 1st time) explaining that it does not affect my health in the slightest as long as I get some blood let every few months(to keep Iron levels normal) and "herself" slinked off with tail between legs and I was issued my Class one.

Some people fail for reasons that are not actually reasons(or reasonable) and are passed when this is pointed out!
Apparently 1 in 4 Irish people(highest incidence in the world) have what I have to some degree and don't know it. My bloods were as normal as anyone elses but I was failed because I pointed out I had it!:rolleyes:

I found out later the JAA's own medical directory states that pilots may be issued a class one with Haemochromatosis as long as they don't fly within 24 hours of having their blood let. It's the same policy as for blood donation and many people with the condition donate their blood as a "2 birds with one stone" way of keeping their iron level in check. Blood banks often will direct the iron rich blood to hospitals for severely anemic patients to get.
That raises questions as to whether or not the AMEs actually know the rules and regulations they are supposed to enforce....

Lynchy747

I know I'm bringing up an old thread here! I went to Specsavers a couple of years ago and did the plate test for colourblindness, got told anyway that I'm colourblind. The optometrist was so negative about everything, showed me a list of everything I couldn't do. I was heartbroken thinking that it was the end for being a pilot fullstop.

Am I right in saying that a Class 2 medical will be issued with a "Daytime flying only" restriction on the face of the medical? Or is this something which is not tolerated whatsoever?

Thanks in advance for any responses!

cherrytaz

Hi there, I know how this feels. I got to the final interview for the Aer Lingus Cadetship two years ago. This was after passing initial online application, then aptitude tests, then passing assessment day out in the Airport Hotel and then got to the final interview. We had to bring a colour test cert with us and I failed on red/green using the Ishihara plates. I also went to the Mater off my own accord and done the lantern test and again failed. It was heart breaking. Flying commercially was all I wanted to do.

Back to your question I think you can get a Class 2 but with certain limitations i.e. daytime flying only. You should clarify this however

You'd be surprised at how many people don't realise they have a colour deficiency. Colourblind does not mean you can't distinguish any colours, it may just be a deficiency with certain as is my case

Best of luck

Lynchy747

Cheers for getting back to me!

I know it's awful like, it took me a while to realise there was no way around it really, bar being a private pilot. That's my plan anyway!

I think I have minor deficiency to be honest, my main difficulty is distinguishing purple and blue which is a bit strange

As far as I know the plates don't indicate severity and only a pass fail indication.

It is mad that there are people who will never realise they have a colour vision deficiency. I can't comprehend how you felt after coming through all those stages..... has to be the worst way to find out

I'll be so happy with a Class 2 even with a restriction though! Thanks again for getting back to me!!

martinsvi

In the case of Class 2 medical certificates, when the applicant does not have satisfactory perception of colours, his/her
flying privileges shall be limited to daytime only.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2011:311:0001:0193:EN:PDF

You're good to go, colorblindness is not a showstopper for a PPL

Alaba320

If you are determining whether you are "colour safe" or "colour deficient" (the EASA terms) by means of an Ishihara test plate test, then you will be happy to know that the Ishihara isn't the test that rules you colour deficient.

It's a little confusing -

If you identify the first 14 of the 21 Ishihara plates without hesitation then the test is stopped and you are deemed colour safe. straightforward enough!

However, If you have trouble identifying any of the first 14 Ishihara plates then you must complete the 21 plates with no more than 1 mistake (IIRC) If you do this then you are deemed colour safe.

If you fail the Ishihara, even if you didn't manage to get 1 correct it does not rule you colour deficient, it just means that you have to carry out another type of test. CAD is used in the UK and Holmes Wright Lantern Test is used in Ireland. You pass this then you are deemed colour safe. My personal experience is that the lantern test was 100 times easier to pass that the Ishihara, got my unrestricted Class 1 and I'm now flying for an airline, so don't give up just because of the Ishihara test.

It boils my blood when Aer Lingus require you to come to the Cadet Interview with a letter from optician stating you have passed the Ishihara.. When it's not even a requirement! They are only fuelling the rumours that you can't be a pilot if you can't pass the Ishihara.

Hope this helps you out

EASA part Med has more details on this and is available on PDF on the EASA site. Good luck