Whats good at towing

db330

I need a cheap enough car (under €5000) that can tow a box trailer that weighs between 1300kg and 1800kg

i will be doing alot of motor wa driving on weekends with the trailer,
and then driving through the centre of dublin during the week,

also i need something that is good on fuel as i'm still a student.

i was thinking about a bmw 330d or audi A4 2.5 V6 Tdi,

also would a 1.9tdi tow that weight, or what would i need someting bigger.

68coupe

Heya. Might sound a little strange, but if you're gonna do a LOT of towing maybe you should consider getting something like a jeep, a short wheelbase one maybe? But my main point is that I would recommend that you go for an automatic gearbox. With a LOT of towing, you will inevitably end up seriously testing your clutch. The auto box would probably make life easier.

Seth Brundle

Make sure that you also have the correct licence for the trailer!
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/travel-and-recreation/motoring-1/driver-licensing/categories_of_motor_vehicles_and_minimum_age_of_drivers_in_ireland

Mycroft H

You would need a jeep or a van for that weight.

Jeeps i can comment on are the landrover defender, and discovery. Both of them could pull the back end off a house.

The defender can comfortably tow 2.5 tonnes easily, in fact you can tow up to 3.5t.


Vans you have the ever reliable transit.

A skoda octavia has a limit of 1500kg, i'd presume the a4 is much the same. Towing often at the limit is not a good idea. The engine will be under constant strain, the gearing is not designed for towing and you will get awful mpg.


Meanwhile you will still get 30+mpg on a defender or a transit. And decent examples can be bought for under 5k. The defenders hold their value really well also

cashmni1

db330 wrote: »

I need a cheap enough car (under €5000) that can tow a box trailer that weighs between 1300kg and 1800kg

i will be doing alot of motor wa driving on weekends with the trailer,
and then driving through the centre of dublin during the week,

also i need something that is good on fuel as i'm still a student.

i was thinking about a bmw 330d or audi A4 2.5 V6 Tdi,

also would a 1.9tdi tow that weight, or what would i need someting bigger.

Forget about the 330d for under 5k, and not the car you want for towing either. You need a longer wheelbase with weight also. Passat would be better. 1.9 TDI should be fine. Don't get me wrong, powerful car the 330d but for 5k your market will be limited, Peugeot 406 Hdi, Toyota Avensis D4D, or something of a similar size for towing a trailer. Otherwise you are in jeep territory for heavier loads.

BrianD3

Seeing as you're a student it's probably safe to assume that you have a normal B car licence rather than an E+B licence? You cannot legally tow an 1800 kg max laden weight trailer with a B licence. There are several conditions that need to be adhered to and no matter what tow car you choose, you'll be in breach of at least one of them.

Then again the rules for towing are widely ignored and the Gardai don't seem sure of the law either.

CJhaughey

Forget towing 1.3-1.8t with a car, Cars are not designed to do that on a regular basis, you need a Jeep or a Van, not a car van but a proper Transit type.
The clutches on Jeeps are much larger than cars to cope with increased loads.
Autoboxes can be good, but are expensive to repair if anything goes wrong.
I don't think you are going to be able to tick all your boxes with one vehicle.

Economical.
Able to tow 1.8t
Good for city and motorway.
The first two are kiind of mutually exclusive IMO.
Sounds like a SWB landcruiser would be a good bet but you won't get much more than 30mpg out of it and less with a slushbox tranny.
You can pick up early KZJ90/95's for around 5k but you would want to check them over well before purchase to make sure that everything is OK, work on 4x4's is seldom cheap due to the additional parts in the drivetrain.

db330

i was pointing towards the car for tax reasons, as the 330d is 430 or 600 per year while the landcruiser is 2000, so really a car is my only affordable way,

the 330d can be got from the uk for under 5000, no vrt, so this was o.1 on my list but is there anything else that i should consider, also need 4 seats, which eliminates the vans and commericals jeeps.

about the limits i'm not to worried about the law on weight as i doubt the gardes weigh cars and trailers,
and yes you were right about my licence,

so far i'm considering these
330d, 320d / 5 series
A4 2.5TDI, 1.9TDI
mondeo 2.0
accord 2.2
saab 9 3 2.2tid

i'm also looking for a nice lookin car and nothing to old out,

so if you have any input on these cars or would recommend something else.

db330

the trailer would normally be 1.35 tones but i wouldlike to be able to have the opption to put 1.8 t in it

and also i cannot get decemt insurence on a van due to my age (19)
(4300 on a Vito with motorbikes in the back)
and yes before anyone says i have checked the rest out and it alot cheaper.

bazz26

db330 wrote: »

i was pointing towards the car for tax reasons, as the 330d is 430 or 600 per year while the landcruiser is 2000, so really a car is my only affordable way,

the 330d can be got from the uk for under 5000, no vrt, so this was o.1 on my list but is there anything else that i should consider, also need 4 seats, which eliminates the vans and commericals jeeps.

about the limits i'm not to worried about the law on weight as i doubt the gardes weigh cars and trailers,

so far i'm considering these
330d, 320d / 5 series
A4 2.5TDI, 1.9TDI
mondeo 2.0
accord 2.2
saab 9 3 2.2tid

i'm also looking for a nice lookin car and nothing to old out of these,

so if you have any input on these cars or would recommend something else.

A pre 2008 3.0 litre engined car costs around €1600 to tax per year not €430 or €600 and what do you mean by no VRT. You have to VRT it once you get it landed here.

bazz26

db330 wrote: »

the trailer would normally be 1.35 tones but i wouldlike to be able to have the opption to put 1.8 t in it

and also i cannot get decemt insurence on a van due to my age (19)
(4300 on a Vito with motorbikes in the back)
and yes before anyone says i have checked the rest out and it alot cheaper.

At 19 your insurance quotes are not going to be much cheaper on the majority of cars on your earlier list.

db330

accoring to the revenue web site produces 177g/km which is €600
and i will try to reg it in a friends name from antrim

bazz26

db330 wrote: »

accoring to the revenue web site produces 177g/km which is €600
and i will try to reg it in a friends name from antrim

Cars older than 2008 are taxed on their engine size not Co2 output. Also Revenue are clamping down big time on VRT dodging so don't think you will get away with that either. Check out the threads here on the subject. If it was this easy we would all be doing it.

db330

bazz59926393 wrote:

26;Cars older than 2008 are taxed on their engine size not Co2 output.

:eek:aww i didn't know that thanks, i would have bought a car based on the co2 emmissions thanks again

bazz59926393 wrote:

Also Revenue are clamping down big time on VRT dodging so don't think you will get away with that either. Check out the threads here on the subject. If it was this easy we would all be doing it.

i know but there has to be ways around it and we just have to figure them out:P

dutchcat

is the trailer single axel or twin [4 wheel] if so you will need a 4x4 to tow it regardless of weight its the LAW ,most single axel trailers are 1 ton max

CJhaughey

db330 wrote: »

i know but there has to be ways around it and we just have to figure them out:P

My crystal ball sees you at the side of the road looking at the backside of a car transporter carrying your car away to the pound:D
Seriously, have you read any of the threads on here about the revenue?
Any dodge you can think up they will have already seen.

db330

its a twin axle

but this post is not about vrt, but i will sort it out, most likely by paying but i will avoid if i can

Biro

You'll be laughed out the door by the insurance companies with a 330d. Not a hope will you have of insuring it. Tax is massive too.
You should look into an L200 or something like that. Forget a car for towing that kind of weight. You'll make pure sh!t of it within 6 months.

Hooch

BrianD3 wrote: »

Seeing as you're a student it's probably safe to assume that you have a normal B car licence rather than an E+B licence? You cannot legally tow an 1800 kg max laden weight trailer with a B licence. There are several conditions that need to be adhered to and no matter what tow car you choose, you'll be in breach of at least one of them.

Then again the rules for towing are widely ignored and the Gardai don't seem sure of the law either.

Firsty we dont ignore this, anymore anyway. It is now becoming more and more enforced.

dutchcat wrote: »

is the trailer single axel or twin [4 wheel] if so you will need a 4x4 to tow it regardless of weight its the LAW ,most single axel trailers are 1 ton max

Spot on and you need the trailer to have itss own brakes.

*OP beware that the DPP have a request into the high court to clarify about trailers and weight. Lets say your vehicle weighs 2 tonnes. And your trailer with whatever in it weighs 2.5 tonnes. Your total weight is 4.5 tonnes. Your EB licence covers you ONLY for vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes. You are now going into goods vehicles catagory of EC licence. If you think about it, it is logical. If this wasnt the case everyone could have a 3.4 tonne vehicle pulling any size or weight trailer*


Also in relation to VRT just because its not in your name doesnt mean customs wont take it, or us in fact.

Hope this helps, and i'll update in future with regard to the licence issue, but at present AGS is prosecuting for no licence if the incident like above occurs!

Terrontress

If I were you I'd look in to getting a Ford Ranger crew-cab diesel from the UK.

The cars are cheap, have a good pulling ability, 5 seats, flat bed. They are never going to win any awards for style but will fit your bill.

The VRT is at a commercial rate too.

Gtec

is the trailer single axel or twin [4 wheel] if so you will need a 4x4 to tow it regardless of weight its the LAW ,most single axel trailers are 1 ton max
Spot on and you need the trailer to have itss own brakes.

Can someone point me to a piece of Irish Legislation that specifies that I must use a 4x4 to tow a twin axle trailer?

The only legislation I have ever seen concerns to kerb weight of the towing vehicle, nowhere have I seen mention of the number of driven wheels.

I spent a long time looking at this when I was looking to buy a trailer recently and have seem many mentions of this 4x4 requirement on many boards, It's just that I can't belive that, let's say, a suzuki Vitara is legally allowed tow an 8x4 builders trailer full of sand and a big saloon car (like a 7-series) is not!

Thanks

Hooch

Its not the 4x4, its the weight of the trailer and what the vehicle is rated to tow. Mostly 2 axel trailers are too heavy for standard cars where as 4x4s have a bigger rating.
So from that there is no legisation that states that 4x4 are required, its just operational requirements

lancerwall

best to forget about the car with that weight it will use more fuel than an 4x4. would look into a commercial pajero or landcruiser. I was only 20 wen i got a 4x4, tax is under 300 and my insurance was something like 1400 if you buy any of the cars on your list it will be more likely to be 2000+ for your insurance

tin79

dutchcat wrote: »

is the trailer single axel or twin [4 wheel] if so you will need a 4x4 to tow it regardless of weight its the LAW ,most single axel trailers are 1 ton max

Hi could you let me know your source for this law that states that about the twin axel and 4X4? i am not doubting you as i have heard this several times but cannot find the law myself and i was just wondering about the wording etc. Thanks

i wouldnt tow a 1,800 kg trailer with a car, it would be just too much for it and at that weight it would be heavier than the unladen (kerb) weight of the vehicle too so you would need an EB licence.

The information on the citizens information site is a bit misleading and seems to suggest you cant tow on a b licence at all. i think the correct information is:


Trailers
Cars and trailers

If you hold a Full category B licence, you may tow a trailer only if:

* the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer is 750kg or less, or
* the unladen (empty) weight of your towing vehicle is at least the same as the trailer's design gross vehicle weight, and the combined design gross vehicle weight of the vehicle and trailer is no more than 3,500kg.

BrianD3

Can someone point me to a piece of Irish Legislation that specifies that I must use a 4x4 to tow a twin axle trailer?

The only legislation I have ever seen concerns to kerb weight of the towing vehicle, nowhere have I seen mention of the number of driven wheels.

I spent a long time looking at this when I was looking to buy a trailer recently and have seem many mentions of this 4x4 requirement on many boards, It's just that I can't belive that, let's say, a suzuki Vitara is legally allowed tow an 8x4 builders trailer full of sand and a big saloon car (like a 7-series) is not!

You are correct - the number of axles on the trailer is irrelevant and bears little relationship to the weight of the trailer. I know of lots of twin axle trailers which weigh around 250 kg empty and 750 kg fully laden. And I was once looking at getting a single axle car transporter which was fair deal heavier than the above twin axles and was rated to take a 900 kg car.

Even a triple axle Ifor Williams is not that heavy unladen and could be towed by a lot of medium sized large cars if it was loaded well below its max capacity. They have very high design gross vehicle weight which is the figure that matters for licences so not a chance of towing one of these with a B licence.

A B licence covers you to tow a combination of up to 3.5 tonnes d.g.v.w and the kerb weight of the towing vehicle must be more than the d.g.v.w of the trailer. An EB licence allows you to exceed the 3.5 tonne limit and the rule about kerb weight does not apply. The towing vehicle must be in category B obviously. These rules are standard across the EU. There is a lot of misinformation in this thread.

rocknchef

db330 wrote: »

I need a cheap enough car (under €5000) that can tow a box trailer that weighs between 1300kg and 1800kg

i will be doing alot of motor wa driving on weekends with the trailer,
and then driving through the centre of dublin during the week,

also i need something that is good on fuel as i'm still a student.

i was thinking about a bmw 330d or audi A4 2.5 V6 Tdi,

also would a 1.9tdi tow that weight, or what would i need someting bigger.

what I dont get is why do people come here looking for advice and then when given good advice not take any notice to it

tin79

BrianD3 wrote: »

You are correct - the number of axles on the trailer is irrelevant and bears little relationship to the weight of the trailer. I know of lots of twin axle trailers which weigh around 250 kg empty and 750 kg fully laden. And I was once looking at getting a single axle car transporter which was fair deal heavier than the above twin axles and was rated to take a 900 kg car.

Even a triple axle Ifor Williams is not that heavy unladen and could be towed by a lot of medium sized large cars if it was loaded well below its max capacity. They have very high design gross vehicle weight which is the figure that matters for licences so not a chance of towing one of these with a B licence.

A B licence covers you to tow a combination of up to 3.5 tonnes d.g.v.w and the kerb weight of the towing vehicle must be more than the d.g.v.w of the trailer. An EB licence allows you to exceed the 3.5 tonne limit and the rule about kerb weight does not apply. The towing vehicle must be in category B obviously. These rules are standard across the EU. There is a lot of misinformation in this thread.

Thanks, good post

Ferris

I have used a citroen xantia for towing boats (~750kg - 1T) and its a very good towcar because of the self leveling rear suspension. This stops the rear end squating and lifting the front off the ground. The C5's have the same suspension and the estates have a suspension height control button in the boot which makes hooking up the trailer easier.

I would look at a good C5 hdi 110 estate with a good service history, clutch, brakes and tyres.

Like this:
http://www.usedcarsni.com/24468328

Farls

Do you need 4 seats? Tax on a commercial is only 288euro for the year. If you do need 4 seats look up a crew cab, they are commercial tax also.

I wouldn't even entertain the idea of towing that load with a car, not only would it be illegal but also dangerous. I'd like to see what the braking distance would be with a weight like that behind a car. I you insist on a car though there's always a fleece of old vento's at marts with big trailers on them...could be something in that?

Matt Simis

Have a look at
http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp#tab1

Woot, our Allroad can tow 2100kgs (max, 85% "rule" around 1600kg)! Ive towed some light stuff with it myself.
The Audis can tow heavier capacities than BMWs and from both marques there is an towing weight advantage to the estate and mid size model (A6/Allroad and 5 series) over small models. Saying that, they dont hold a candle to something like a VW V10 Touareg, which is rated max at 3.5tons.

EPM

Something like this can tow 1800kgs

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Volvo/V70/SE-20T/200840190274535/advert

Matt Simis

EPM wrote: »

Something like this can tow 1800kgs

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Volvo/V70/SE-20T/200840190274535/advert

http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp#tab1
According to the website I linked the Volvo V70 range is limited to 1800 max, at 85% of vehicle weight rule is worse (lower limit) than all 3 series diesels listed and well worse than the 5 series and A6 class..

thethedev

Get yourself a short wheel base pajero commercial. You should have no problems getting comercial insurance if you have a full licence and they're everywhere.
If your towing I find that a 4x4 cant be beaten at all, when you have a long heavy trailer your chances of getting caught in mud or the ditch increase and a 2wd van with road tyres wont get you out of it

Darsad

I had an 02 Subaru Forester and towed plenty and chose it as it won tow car of the year many times . From memory the 2.0 non turbo could tow up to 1500 Kg braked and the 2.0 Turbo 1800 Kg braked .

db330

thanks for the input,

the suggestions on certain cars were just what i was looking for,
so now i have a few other to add to my list,

but gain a 2 seater is no good but i will look into the pick ups, espiecily with €50 vrt(was last time i checked)

but if it means anything
the trailer is a ivor williams box trailer(twin axle) 750kg empty
2 motocross bikes 10kg each
250 - 300 litres of water=300kg
tool box, pressure washer, gear, parts, cannapey, petrol(30l full)=100kg?

so i'd say 1350ish kg, but i would like the option to carry extra water and a bike+gear,


but if there is anything else you can think off that in not a commerical jeep that has not been listed please post a comment on it

Fey!

Toyota Landcruiser Prado? Or Amazon? A lot of these around crew cabbed with commercial tax and 5 seats.

A lot of them are on the same chassis as a Hilux Surf, the unladen weight of which is 1800kg (commercial). Also, a lot of them will be automatic.

Don't expect good mileage, though...

snowman707

I have towed well in excess of 2000kgs with saloon cars, not in recent years but I have done it, & never had any problems,


To be be legally covered by insurance however in to day's world , the total weight of trailer & load must not exceed a certain limit.

This is usually well under the car's capabilities, e.g. for Citroen C5 Dsl which I would class as an excellent towing vehicle, the limit I think is about 1550kgs for a twin axle trailer with brakes.

CJhaughey

db330 wrote: »

but gain a 2 seater is no good but i will look into the pick ups, espiecily with €50 vrt(was last time i checked)

Twin cab will be 13.5% of OMSP.

SAABMAN

Guys, towing isn't the real problem. A mini would pull a ton. Stopping is the problem, esp. at motorway speeds. For that reason alone you should not really be using a short wheel base vehicle, unless you want your load to end up towing you.
Also there are very strict limits on carrying petrol and it includes what is in the tank of the bikes.

Get an old Transit and with the money left over from not buying 3.0 BMW, buy a smaller town car

Mr.Boots

Something like this......http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=1378299 ?????

Or this...http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=1371366

Or this....http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=1183619

or this...http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=1239351
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=1370964

The LDV gets my vote

db330

ye i better take your advice then,
so i will look a vans/ pick up/ jeep now then as an alturnitive,

but would you have any advice on getting insurance on 2 veichels for a 19 yr old, my dad said he would go on a policy but i would like to be independent and also start build no claims bonus.

rocknchef

op just one question. what are all the other motocross guys pulling there trailers with surely if any of those are pulling with a car then that car would work for you.

dutchcat

dutchcat wrote: »

is the trailer single axel or twin [4 wheel] if so you will need a 4x4 to tow it regardless of weight its the LAW

Thats rubbish, I have seen it on another thread today as well. The car trailers that nearly every farmer in the country have are twin axle, most are pulled by cars and never have I heard of this rule. Also I would say 95% (including me and a large number of people I know) pull trailers on their normal car license and again I would think no one was ever questioned about it.

db330

rocknchef wrote: »

op just one question. what are all the other motocross guys pulling there trailers with surely if any of those are pulling with a car then that car would work for you.

most have vans and just throw the bikes in the back, but van insurance was really expensive 4300, while the 330d was 2600, both fully comp, but someone said something about the petrol so i will get another quote and not mention the bikes,

but some tow with 4x4's and then some use saloon cars(A4 quattro, skoda octavia tdi) but i was just looking for opinions to see if there were any cars that would do the job

db330

sorry what is osmp?

darragh o meara

This any good to ya??

http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=96247&cat=500

SWB pajero, Commercial tax, 4 seats, tested for two years last week, taxed til end sept, serviced and just under 60,000miles in immaculate condition.

I had it down for 6k but I'm open to offers

PS. would pull for Ireland, its the second one I've had and they are seriously good for towing. This one has only pulled a small trailer twice and has no clutch to worry about either...

darragh o meara

db330 wrote: »

sorry what is osmp?

Id imagine its meant to be omsp reffering to "open market selling price"