Yesterday approaching a roundabout...

waraf

...I was in the right hand lane and a rigid truck was in the left lane (it was a dual carriageway). We both proceed onto the roundabout, neither of us is indicating at this point as I want to go straight through the roundabout so I only started indicating left once I had passed the first exit. Anyway, the truck completely cut me up but going right around to take the third exit. Luckily enough I wasn't going too fast and I was paying close attention so I went around with him and avoided an accident. Anyway I beeped as I think you're not allowed go around to the third exit of a roundabout if you approach it from the left hand lane. The guy in the truck went mental hanging out the window shouting the gesticulationg rudely. My question is - who was in the wrong?

Note: I can understand if a large articulated truck did this as it has to do with their turning circle but this was a small rigid truck so he could easily have been in the right hand lane and completed the manoeuvre safely

BrandonFlowers

he's in the wrong and if you'd crashed he'd be liable. people are always doing it on the navan road, i hate it!!!!

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

yknaa

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yeah I would agree... you should have been in the left lane and the truck on your right as you approach the roundabout.

BrandonFlowers

yknaa wrote: »

Yeah I would agree... you should have been in the left lane and the truck on your right as you approach the roundabout.

on a dual carriageway you can go straight or right in the right hand lane but he cannot cut acoss you, therein lies his query....

Mr. Presentable

Unless, of course, the roadmarking/signage indicated both lanes for 2nd exit, as often happens on larger roundabouts.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

peasant

To confuse the issue even further ...

Technically and legally and all, that the truck should have been in the inside lane ...however ....going round a roundabout in a truck the legal way is not always easy nor safe.

First the truck has to be positioned in the right lane of the dual carriageway. To do a lane change safely in a truck with its big blind spots takes quite some time as there is a bit of mirror watching involved before you can be SURE that it's safe to pull out ....between reading the sign indicating which exit to take and reaching the roundabout the truck may simply not have had enough time to position itself correctly.

Secondly, going round the inner radius of the roundabout in a truck isn't as easy as in a car. Especially if there is a top heavy load on board, there is a danger of the truck shedding he load/toppling over.

Thirdly, once again changing lanes on the roundabout for the correct exit is trickier in a truck because of the limited visibility.

Personally I find it easier (and much safer) to go (illegally) all around in the outside lane when I'm driving my camper which is about small rigid truck size.

Due to this experience, I try to stay well clear of trucks on roundabouts when in my car, as you can never be quite sure where they are going.

Indicating would help though

waraf

yknaa wrote: »

Yeah I would agree... you should have been in the left lane and the truck on your right as you approach the roundabout.

It was a busy dual carriageway so traffic was queueing for the roundabout in both lanes. My understanding is that it is perfectly acceptable to take the second exit (i.e. to go straight thru') when you approach from either the right or left lanes but you can only take the third exit when you approach in the right hand land and not the left.

Alanstrainor

waraf wrote: »

It was a busy dual carriageway so traffic was queueing for the roundabout in both lanes. My understanding is that it is perfectly acceptable to take the second exit (i.e. to go straight thru') when you approach from either the right or left lanes but you can only take the third exit when you approach in the right hand land and not the left.

Provided the roundabout had no road markings stating otherwise, the left hand lane is used for the first and second exit, anything after that uses the right hand lane.

waraf

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Provided the roundabout had no road markings stating otherwise, the left hand lane is used for the first and second exit, anything after that uses the right hand lane.

Thanks. That's all I needed to hear

Waymaster

peasant wrote: »

To confuse the issue even further ...

Technically and legally and all, that the truck should have been in the inside lane ...however ....going round a roundabout in a truck the legal way is not always easy nor safe.

First the truck has to be positioned in the right lane of the dual carriageway. To do a lane change safely in a truck with its big blind spots takes quite some time as there is a bit of mirror watching involved before you can be SURE that it's safe to pull out ....between reading the sign indicating which exit to take and reaching the roundabout the truck may simply not have had enough time to position itself correctly.

Secondly, going round the inner radius of the roundabout in a truck isn't as easy as in a car. Especially if there is a top heavy load on board, there is a danger of the truck shedding he load/toppling over.

Thirdly, once again changing lanes on the roundabout for the correct exit is trickier in a truck because of the limited visibility.

Personally I find it easier (and much safer) to go (illegally) all around in the outside lane when I'm driving my camper which is about small rigid truck size.

Due to this experience, I try to stay well clear of trucks on roundabouts when in my car, as you can never be quite sure where they are going.

Indicating would help though

Do not agree at all. Had a rigid lesson today and you can never use the wrong lane on a rounabout. Its not that difficult to take a 30ft rigid round a city roundabout properly so a dual carriageway should be nothing but if you take it in the left lane then you risk a car or bike coming up on your inside which could end very nastily. If you shed a load on a roundabout your going to fast or its not secured properly!

(Dont get me wrong your nose may cross slightly into the outside lane to make sure your rear wheels dont mount the roundabout but you have to take your room)

Artics have a better turning ability than a rigid. The trailer follows almost exactly the line of the cab where as a long rigid is completely different.

He should have been in the right hand lane.

sweetbubbly

Waraf, put your mind at rest, the truck was most definintely in the wrong. If you had crashed into him, he would have been completely liable. Well done you for taking evasive action and preventing an accident, shame the driver had to be aggressive towards you when you did him the favour!!

Peasant, I'd have to disagree with you, I've been driving rigid and articulated trucks for years and I've also taught artic/rigid and cars for the last 7 years, and never ever would I approach a roundabout in the left when taking the third exit. Depending on the roundabout particularly the size of it, I would however take the two lanes on the approach, if I felt it was not possible to go around the roundabout safely in the right hand lane. If the driver didn't have enough time to make it into the correct lane, then he should have been apologetic about the incident, instead of bullying his way around and being rude and ignorant to other road users. Sounds to me that this truck driver, was either having an incredibly bad day, or just doesnt know the first thing about the rules of the road. (personally I'm going with the latter!)

Can I advise other road users to be aware of trucks on the road, and be aware that it is not always possible for them to stay within the white lines of the road, especially on a roundabout, (its not that we think we own the road, its just sometimes there isn't enough road there for us and you) if you are approaching a roundabout, with a truck on your left, try to either be ahead of him on it, or hold back behind his rear wheels. Better be safe than sorry.

Gregor Samsa

BrandonFlowers wrote: »

on a dual carriageway you can go straight or right in the right hand lane but he cannot cut acoss you, therein lies his query....

Actually, in the copy of the Rules Of The Road that the RSA sent out to all/most/some households in 2007, the bit about you being able to go straight through a roundabout in the right hand lane has been amended. It states (page 109) that you can only go straight through using the right hand lane when:

1. The left hand lane is only for turning left, or is blocked or closed
2. when directed by a Garda

Older copies of the ROTR say that you can use the right lane to go straight, unless the signs/markings at the roundabout state otherwise.

I'm not sure if the law has changed or what, but that's what's in the most current version of the ROTR.

In any case, there's no circumstance when the truck should have been doing what he was doing, it's just plain dangerous (but you do see it a lot, so OP was right to be cautious)

Waymaster

Exactly sounds to me like he was just plain ignorant. Don't worry about it.He just has a bad case of road rage and was bullying because he was bigger. Unfortunately the ignorant drivers tend to stand out much more than the courteous ones. Its everywhere unfortunately!

macroman

Something similar happened to me with a coach today, fairly large roundabout, I was taking 2nd exit and as there was a massive queue in the left lane I moved into the right lane. Myself and the coach pulled out, I indicated on approach to my exit and the coach just cut me up with children on board!

It wasn't as if the coach was a big one either. 10 meter mid-engine type - and the lanes were pretty wide too!

My horn has stopped working, so I couldn't make him aware of my 'disapproval'

romah

waraf wrote: »

It was a busy dual carriageway so traffic was queueing for the roundabout in both lanes. My understanding is that it is perfectly acceptable to take the second exit (i.e. to go straight thru') when you approach from either the right or left lanes but you can only take the third exit when you approach in the right hand land and not the left.

Exception to every rule

There are some roundabouts off dual carraigeways that might have 4 exits rather than 3

LEFT LANE - 1st ... 2nd... & 3rd exits inside lane [straight ahead dual carraigeway]

RIGHT LANE 3rd exit outside lane [dual carraigeway] & 4th exit

This seems to be common practice...rightly or wrongly ??

Pablod

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Agreed - you and the trucker were both in the wrong lanes

waraf

Ok so this is what I found on http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/roundabouts.html

Turning left:


Going straight through:


Turning right:

waraf

Pablod wrote: »

Agreed - you and the trucker were both in the wrong lanes

Maybe but (using the diagrams above) it is acceptable to take the second exit from the right hand lane but unacceptable to take the third exit from the left lane. If there had been an accident I would not have been at fault.

theocn

A lot of this confusion could be eliminated if the local coucils marked the roads correctly. I don't understand why they can't put arrows on the approach to R/A's to highlight the correct lane to be in.

There are 2 r/a's near me which confuse everyone. Both of them have only 2 exits, one to the left & one straight ahead. There are 2 lanes on the approach to both, but only 1 lane on the r/a & 1 lane off them. Most cars go into the left lane for going left & right lane for going straight, but the ROR states that you should be in the left lane when going straight unless it's marked otherwise.

It would make more sense to be in the right lane in this instance when going straight but arrows on the road would be a big help.

Alanstrainor

waraf wrote: »

Ok so this is what I found on http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/roundabouts.html


Going straight through:

it should be noted that the red broken line is only applicable where the road markings allow.

AllGunsBlazing

The diagram posted above by waraf comes with a clear stipulation in the latest Rules Of The Road as phutyle said earlier.

phutyle wrote: »

Actually, in the copy of the Rules Of The Road that the RSA sent out to all/most/some households in 2007, the bit about you being able to go straight through a roundabout in the right hand lane has been amended. It states (page 109) that you can only go straight through using the right hand lane when:

1. The left hand lane is only for turning left, or is blocked or closed
2. when directed by a Garda

The latest ROTR can downloaded here for anyone who doesn't have the book at hand.

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/pdf-downloads/english/rules-of-the-road%20eng.pdf

forkassed

waraf wrote: »

...I was in the right hand lane and a rigid truck was in the left lane (it was a dual carriageway). We both proceed onto the roundabout, neither of us is indicating at this point as I want to go straight through the roundabout so I only started indicating left once I had passed the first exit. Anyway, the truck completely cut me up but going right around to take the third exit. Luckily enough I wasn't going too fast and I was paying close attention so I went around with him and avoided an accident. Anyway I beeped as I think you're not allowed go around to the third exit of a roundabout if you approach it from the left hand lane. The guy in the truck went mental hanging out the window shouting the gesticulationg rudely. My question is - who was in the wrong?

The exact same thing happened to me this morning, roundabout on a dual carriageway.
I was going straight from the right hand lane. Some fella in the left lane comes around in front of me to go right around the roundabout. (Just missed each other)

From now on i'l just be staying in the left lane for going straight at a roundabout.


I was ok going straight on a dual carriageway from the right hand lane??

Alanstrainor

forkassed wrote: »

The exact same thing happened to me this morning, roundabout on a dual carriageway.
I was going straight from the right hand lane. Some fella in the left lane comes around in front of me to go right around the roundabout. (Just missed each other)

From now on i'l just be staying in the left lane for going straight at a roundabout.


I was ok going straight on a dual carriageway from the right hand lane??

If the road markings said that the right hand lane was for going straight through then yes you were correct. Otherwise, standard roundabout rules apply, that is to say if you were going straight through, use the left hand lane. Clearly the other driver was in the wrong staying in the left lane, despite wanting to take a third or subsequent exit.

angeldelight

I absolutely hate the roundabout in Naas where the big ball is... the amount of times I have been cut up on that roundabout and then beeped at as if it's me that's in the wrong when if I hadn't braked hard there would have been an accident!

Basically when coming from Naas the road widens into two lanes. The roundabout has, I think 6 exits, one at six o'clock as I come onto it, one at 8, one at 10, one at 12 and one at 2 with a smaller one to a yard of some kind at 4. So as you approach normally to go off at the 12 o'clock exit (N7 dublin direction) you'd be in the left hand lane as my instructor told me, anything up to 12 oclock on a big roundabout like that go in the inside lane. That's what almost everyone does EXCEPT it is very clearly painted on the road to use the inside lane only for the first and second (m7 south bound) and to use the outside lane for everything else. So I correctly go in the outside lane and almost every time have someone cut me up and then give abuse about it grrr