history: AAI/BLE/NACAI

hunnymonster

I was wondering if some of the more experienced (no I didn't say older!) peeps on here might be able to fill me in on some history. I ran when I was a kid (gave up for 20 years) and I vaguely remember you couldn't run in BLE events if you were NACA and vice versa and there were rules for international races and so on. I was too young to understand but I assume there were 2 associations? Now everything appears to be AAI, I've no idea what came before BLE/NACA and how the change came about. I was just wondering if anyone has been around long enough to explain to me?

TheRoadRunner

hunnymonster wrote: »

I was wondering if some of the more experienced (no I didn't say older!) peeps on here might be able to fill me in on some history. I ran when I was a kid (gave up for 20 years) and I vaguely remember you couldn't run in BLE events if you were NACA and vice versa and there were rules for international races and so on. I was too young to understand but I assume there were 2 associations? Now everything appears to be AAI, I've no idea what came before BLE/NACA and how the change came about. I was just wondering if anyone has been around long enough to explain to me?

I am but a young buck myself and don't know the full history but there were 2 associations as you say.

Initially there was one and after the usual politics they separated for years into the NACA and BLE as you mention. They were brought back together under the AAI banner.

Probably not telling you anything you didn't already know but I do know there was a good bit of bad blood between the BLE and NACE. As far as I know the BLE was recognised as the national athletics federation so if you wanted to run internationally you had to run BLE championships and not NACA.

Hopefully some auld fart can pad out my brief story

meathcountysec

Oh the joys of the internet...

http://www.athleticsireland.ie/content/?page_id=5990

Enjoy....

thirtyfoot

AAI is the amalgamation of NACA and BLE. BLE were the recognised international body prior to that and NACA athletes could and would need to compete in BLE competitions to represent Ireland. NACA weren't recognised by IAAF etc. BLE techinically couldn't compete in NACA as technically it was an illegal organisation.

The reasons for the original split go back years and were political (as in Northern Ireland etc) and I think the split was in the '30's. Padraig Griffen who was a former President of BLE and he wrote a book on the history which could be worth checking out as it may go into it.

Generally in the majority the best athletes would have resided in BLE as it was the avenue to proper international competition but there were notable exceptions like Ciaran McDonagh of Fr Murphys who was NACA when he was jumping 8m.

Its all worked well I think and now outside of the few old fogies nothing is mentioned of it and most athletes don't even know about it and since the Good Friday agreement any issue regarding a split in athletics were buried as if progress like that could be made in real life matters then there was no reason why athletics should still be split.

The last rumblings I heard was on the old Irish Athletics Chatboards a few years back when some guy was claiming the AAI was unconsitutional etc. Most people get on and just do the sport these days. Mention BLE to many people and their blood would boil (read Eamo's book) as they were a political landmine with the athletes priorities not even a concern while NACA would have been regarded as a bit of a dissident group.

Hard Worker

The main difference was that the NACA were a 32 county organisation. One of the reasons for the unification was financial. I think both bodies were quietly brought together and told there would be no further funding until they got their acts together.

emerald007

Would it be possible to get a simular short history of the AAI's relationship with the other running associations in the country such as IMRA and the BHAA organisations?

thirtyfoot

emerald007 wrote: »

Would it be possible to get a simular short history of the AAI's relationship with the other running associations in the country such as IMRA and the BHAA organisations?

Is mountain running not governed by the IAAF and as a result then AAI. I thought it was as they will wear official Irish gear etc but maybe not.

Don't know much of BHAA as it only came on my radar in recent years. I would love to see BHAA or a version of it merge with the AAI. There would be obvious governance issues to sort out etc but as it stands a huge number of recreational runners are lost or not capitalised on by the AAI. This means that potential coaches, officials and administrators and as importantly recreational or older club runners are being lost to the sport of athletics (road/track/country/mountain the lot). There is no connect between BHAA and AAI aside from the many AAI people who also compete at BHAA.

As it stands the great numbers who compete at BHAA but are not part of the club structure are adding no value to the sport of athletics outside of their own demographic. Might seem harsh but its true, the great races run week in week out will do diddly squat to keep our sport going. If the national governing body created a BHAA style running calender it would negate the need for the BHAA and it would be all one happy family. The best people to do that would be the BHAA people.

In clubs an element of clubs subs even if a nominal amount will go to maintaining clubs, bringing through kids etc etc. The dirth of coaches and recruiters in clubs would also be helped if all the non-club BHAA runners were in clubs. Are there many non-club people who do BHAA?

Don't know much about BHAA but its seems well organised and that expertise would also be welcomed as I said. If I had the reins in AAI it would be something I would look to see could I make it happen. Its a minority sport enough so doesn't make sense to dilute further.

TheRoadRunner

There is a bit of cross over with the AAI and BHAA regarding the Dublin marathon. The DCM is a BHAA event (I think) and it also incorporates AAI National champs.

A lot of non club runners run BHAA events and in fairness most regular runners belong to AAI clubs, those who don't are generally new to running or guys from different sporting codes. The BHAA has unintentionally redirected many new recruits to AAI clubs. It is my experience that AAI clubs haven't always been able to cater for these new recruits. In my experience anyway

thirtyfoot

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

The BHAA has unintentionally redirected many new recruits to AAI clubs.

Exactly and thats why a formal arrangement would work even better.

eltuerto

I agree that there should be a cross over between AAI and BHAA. Unfortunately there is still great animosity towards BHAA. I was at a recent Dublin Board meeting and there was huge resentment at BHAA doing track races. It was mooted by one individual that any athlete from a club doing them should be banned!!. Things haven't moved on since the 1980's when BLE missed out on the last running boom.

BHAA bsically have moved on, get their own insurance, don't bother with asking AAI for permits and organise to a very professional degree their own races. Innovations like scanned race numbers, tea/brack, race commentary, a clock ,results on line and on time and recently youtube movies!!!. What a pity AAI don't see that they could get into companies and their employees via BHAA and cooperate rather than the present attitude. And I know that it is still only a rump within AAI that are like this but it is still a significant rump. Again read Eamo's book to see what I mean.

Enduro

Tingle wrote: »

Is mountain running not governed by the IAAF and as a result then AAI. I thought it was as they will wear official Irish gear etc but maybe not.

From the IMRA website....

IMRA is affiliated through the Athletic Association of Ireland (AAI) to the World Mountain Running Association (WMRA) for the purposes of competing in International Events.

All nice and friendly. There is a similar co-operative arrangement with Ultrarunning Ireland, AAI and the IAU.

RJC

Ahhha, happy days. Back 28 years ago running in the NACA under 10's all-ireland championships in belfield. The bus up from cork, stopping for mass in portlaoise, cheese sangers and cadet lemonade. A far cry from GPS watches and energy gels.

We always thought the BLE guys were a bit hardcore (i.e. elite!).

Common Sense

Initially (50s onwards and before) there were two associations - the AAU and the NACA. The majority of the AAU clubs were based in Dublin while the NACA held sway in the provinces. The first attempted amalgamation took place in 1969 when Bord Luthchleas na hEireann (BLE) was founded. This organisation did away completely with the AAU and absorbed many if not most of the NACA clubs. However, a fairly significant 'rump' of NACA clubs continued to exist until the final amalgamation which saw the birth of the AAI. Pre BLE the only athletes that could represent Ireland at international level were members of the AAU, although there were some fine athletes in the NACA. I remember in the early 60s athletes such as Sean O'Sullivan, Willie Morris, Harry Gorman and a guy called Molloy who dominated the cross country scene in that organisation. From memory (and subject to correction) some Dublin Clubs such as Metropolitan Harriers were NACA clubs.

thirtyfoot

eltuerto wrote: »

I agree that there should be a cross over between AAI and BHAA. Unfortunately there is still great animosity towards BHAA. I was at a recent Dublin Board meeting and there was huge resentment at BHAA doing track races. It was mooted by one individual that any athlete from a club doing them should be banned!!. Things haven't moved on since the 1980's when BLE missed out on the last running boom.

BHAA bsically have moved on, get their own insurance, don't bother with asking AAI for permits and organise to a very professional degree their own races. Innovations like scanned race numbers, tea/brack, race commentary, a clock ,results on line and on time and recently youtube movies!!!. What a pity AAI don't see that they could get into companies and their employees via BHAA and cooperate rather than the present attitude. And I know that it is still only a rump within AAI that are like this but it is still a significant rump. Again read Eamo's book to see what I mean.

Leaving aside the minority that is the '57 old farts' prevalent in every county board not just Dublin and every provincial board and probably the AAI board and if they could be 'washed' out and the focus was the progression of the sport and not turf battles and oneupmanship, do you think there would be an appetite within the BHAA to become affiliated within the AAI if they were still allowed to function pretty much as is? The only difference being all BHAA members would be AAI members also.

thirtyfoot

Common Sense wrote: »

some Dublin Clubs such as Metropolitan Harriers were NACA clubs.

Was Eamo not Metro and his father was a big BLE man, the president?

Philosophress

Commonsense is right Metropolitan Harriers was one of the few old NACA clubs in Dublin before the merger of the AAU and the majority of NACA clubs to form BLE. Eamonn talks about this in his book (pp 37-38).