Driving test reform

Simon Jester

What reforms do you think the RSA shuold introduce to the driver testing system?

My opinions are:
1. Driving tests shold be filmed, so people can see their errors and driving testers could discuss errors without fear of argument as the evidence would be there to support them.

2. We should have a private company operating at the same time and seperately to the RSA. They should be obliged to maintain the same average pass rate as the RSA to prevent undercutting on pass rates but they should be allowed to compete on price and service and waiting list.

3 The waiting list should be reduced to two weeks, the price should be reduced to 50 with a refundable deposit of 200 to prevent no shows. This would eliminate the 75 euro 25 week mistake which is a major cause of nerves.

4. There should be an option to take a test with your ADI with a camera package in the car as some people have difficulty performing under test conditions.

Opinions and counterpoints?

greyc

Simon Jester wrote: »

What reforms do you think the RSA shuold introduce to the driver testing system?

My opinions are:
1. Driving tests shold be filmed, so people can see their errors and driving testers could discuss errors without fear of argument as the evidence would be there to support them.

Not sure how this would work. There would need to be a camera on the driver to watch for their observations & 1 on the road to show how they deal with different situations.

If for example they were marked for Reaction to Hazard for approaching a junction/speed ramp/traffic lights etc. too fast,I'm not sure how this would be captured on film.
What if they broke the speed limit? There would need to be a camera pointing at the speedo while at the same time showing the stretch of road where the fault occurred. Or similarly if they were driving too slow, how would lack of progress be recorded?

I think the idea of allowing the applicants instructor to travel in the car is a good one.

Permabear

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Simon Jester

Quote:
We should have a private company operating at the same time and seperately to the RSA. They should be obliged to maintain the same average pass rate as the RSA to prevent undercutting on pass rates but they should be allowed to compete on price and service and waiting list.
If a private company can provide a service effectively—and SGS has already shown that driver testing can be handled competently in private hands—we shouldn't be relying on a State-run body at all!

If you leave the service completely in private hands the company will take advantage, much as in healthcare in the USA. One thing we do not want is a private company with a monopoly like the RSA has currently.

Quote:
4. There should be an option to take a test with your ADI with a camera package in the car as some people have difficulty performing under test conditions.
I disagree with this. I don't think there's any reason whatsoever for a driving instructor to be in the car while his student is taking the test. Would you argue that a teacher needs to be in the room while her students are sitting their Leaving Certificate?

Let me change this around a bit. Allow the ADI to ride in the back of the car and give directions in a manner the student driver is used to. Have the driving tester sitting in the front grading stuff. This would have the advantage of having the testers supervised by somone who knows the rules, preventing mistests likem Adam Selene's.

Simon Jester

Not sure how this would work. There would need to be a camera on the driver to watch for their observations & 1 on the road to show how they deal with different situations.

If for example they were marked for Reaction to Hazard for approaching a junction/speed ramp/traffic lights etc. too fast,I'm not sure how this would be captured on film.
What if they broke the speed limit? There would need to be a camera pointing at the speedo while at the same time showing the stretch of road where the fault occurred. Or similarly if they were driving too slow, how would lack of progress be recorded?

I think the idea of allowing the applicants instructor to travel in the car is a good one.

Use a gps to measure the speed. You could have a comuter package that plugs into the lighter socket and records data from 5 or 6 wireless cameras held onto the car with magnets.

It would be a one off expense of 300 euro and we would have greater accountability and transparancy.

Permabear

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Simon Jester

No, the instructor would be given a map of the route to be taken. They wouldnt be free to direct the student wherever they wanted, that would be silly.

Simon Jester

donegalfella wrote: »

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Canada is the place to go for Americans who need urgent medical care and can't 80.000 under their own private-run system. Sound familiar?

ztoical

having a complex camera system used and your own instructor take part in the test would make it very hard to offer a test for 50 quid. Also what if the time of your test doesn't suit your instructor? What if they have a few students taking a test at the same time or its their day off?

Permabear

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greyc

I agree with all those points, perhaps no. 4 may be a bit drastic but at the very least no one should get a 3rd LP unless they've actually sat the test.

Adam Selene

5) Lighting a fire under the Gardaí when it comes to enforcing driving legislation. It is simply not acceptable for beginning drivers to cruise around by themselves, without even displaying L-plates, and with a general "Ah, shure jayzus, what's the harm in it at all, at all?" attitude.

I'd go for that, just wait a few weeks for me to get my licence though:D

I dont think this law is fair to enforce given the waiting lists at the moment. I certainly agree with you about Noel Dempsey though, he is a twat.

I heard a figure being bandied today that a third of testees don't bother to show up, any idea if thats true?

sunnyside

Simon Jester wrote: »

This would eliminate the 75 euro 25 week mistake which is a major cause of nerves.
?

Have the waiting times got that long? I just re-applied last week because I failed my first test.

Permabear

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Adam Selene

No, they haven't. The average waiting times as of March 9 are here. They have probably risen somewhat since then, especially now that all SGS centres have closed, but 25 weeks is an exaggeration.

According to the RSAs statistics.

Maybe 25 weeks is a slight exaggeration , but the estimated waiting time for a new applicant in some centers is longer than 17 weeks.

sunnyside

donegalfella wrote: »

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Well I previously didn't turn up for a test because I wasn't able to drive at the time. I had only applied for the test in order to renew my learner permit which had expired from when I previously tried to learn during college. It would have made more sense to have sent me to do a theory test. I'd say there are quite a few people in that position. The system for re-newing expired licences/permits needs to be changed.

When I did my one failed test before Easter I got a bit of a vibe from my tester that he'd have been happier had I not showed up at all. He looked slightly disappointed when the name he called in the almost empty waiting room was there. I'd say they are well happy with the extended breaks they get from no-shows. The desks in the office had a lot of books/newspapers on them which did imply plenty of spare time. I'm certainly not blaming the testers for anything here, I mean if the appointments don't show up they might as well read the paper. It's not their fault.

I think it would be good if people like me wanting to do a test could just show up, sit in the waiting room and take the place of a no-show. I'm not so sure the testers would like that though.

Permabear

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Simon Jester

A "standby" system such as that would be a very sensible solution that everyone other than the testers' union would be happy with.

A few shocks to the testicles with a car battery should overturn that objection:D

Fairdues

My mother told me that the waiting list for tests was much longer some years ago - over a year. At one stage, things got so bad that the government had some kind of amnesty granting drivers on their 2nd provisional, who had applied for their test, a full licence, without ever having to pass a test.

Simon Jester

1977 I believe

brian076

Fairdues wrote: »

My mother told me that the waiting list for tests was much longer some years ago - over a year. At one stage, things got so bad that the government had some kind of amnesty granting drivers on their 2nd provisional, who had applied for their test, a full licence, without ever having to pass a test.

As recently as 4 years ago the waiting list in Naas was 72 weeks at one stage.

John Mason

* night time driving

* dangerous situation driving i.e. ice on roads

* prove you can change a tyre

* what to do if you have blow out at speed

* driving in extreme conditions

* motor way driving (correct lanes etc)

* roundabouts, roundabouts, roundabouts

* parking parallel and otherwise

* correct times to use dipped headlights

* how to check your lights are alined

* how to check air pressure of tyres

fiona-f

My reforms:

1. Waiting lists. Obviously. The time frame is ridiculously, four or six months and likely to continue rising. Dealing with the high level of no-shows would be an excellent start. I like someone else's idea of allowing potential candidates wait in the waiting room in case of an appointment becomes available, but obviously better to reform the waiting list properly.

2. Appeals system. The current appeals system is clearly unworkable. Anyone I've ever seen post on here is advised that it's not worth all the hassle of going to the District Court, etc. Why not have an intermediate appeal where, for example, you could discuss your grievance with an RSA supervisor, within, say, the ten days after test? The supervisor would have the power to reschedule you a test at no extra cost if you had what seemed like a legitimate complaint. Then if you are still unsatisfied then you can go to the Court. It seems to be way too big a leap at the moment between test and court, with no satisfactory remedy in between.

Other than that, I don't have many problems with the actual test itself. Including some form of parking and perhaps some form of night-time driving could help raise standards. In addition, I think people should be retested for each licence renewal; it's way too easy to learn how to drive "for the test" and then lapse forever more into bad habits. On the licencing system in general, I think there should be some way of ensuring that people driving on learner's permits are ONLY using them to learn rather than a means of transport, like for example, requiring the accompanying driver to enter the objective of the session into a log book that could be inspected by the Gardai if stopped at a checkpoint. Again, you would need to sort out waiting lists to ensure that this could be the case.

Edited to add: I would also try to streamline the system by having the tester issue with a licence there and then, rather than with a certificate of competency. It really seems deeply inefficient to have a whole other office involved in the procedure. In some test centres, you can't even collect the application form for the driving licence so you have to go to the Garda station as well. There has to be some better way!

Novella

Simon Jester wrote: »

4. There should be an option to take a test with your ADI with a camera package in the car as some people have difficulty performing under test conditions.

But if you take away test conditions... It's not a test anymore!