Recording vocals in same room as monitors??

Long Johns

Hi
Just wondering, as a musician and complete recording novice, would it be common practice for a producer to record vocals in the same room they are listening back to it through the monitors?

I would have thought that even with minimal spill it would be a big no no but that's why I'm a novice, I dont know...

thanks

dav nagle

Long Johns wrote: »

Hi
Just wondering, as a musician and complete recording novice, would it be common practice for a producer to record vocals in the same room they are listening back to it through the monitors?

I would have thought that even with minimal spill it would be a big no no but that's why I'm a novice, I dont know...

thanks

Spill and bleed is another word for slop. Always try to sing at a level where you headphones are not 2 loud and a good tight fitting pair can help reduce sloppy bleed. Best bet is to sing in a nice quite place, build a home booth or use pillows and stuff to reduce the sound a bit.

Long Johns

I figured. thanks

so obviously then...singing into a mic located near the monitors (which are giving the guide rather than headphones) is just simply unprofessional?

As would be accepting any bleed at all in the mix, if it can be helped?

dav nagle

Long Johns wrote: »

I figured. thanks

so obviously then...singing into a mic located near the monitors (which are giving the guide rather than headphones) is just simply unprofessional?

As would be accepting any bleed at all in the mix, if it can be helped?

Exactly.

studiorat

Depends on the microphone used. Some people only work that way, Freddy Mercury did and Bono from the rock group U2 always uses an SM-58 in his hand with the big monitors turned up loud in the control room. No sound check, nothing, one, two, one, two, is this on? Lets go!!!

The trick is not to have anything in the mix that isn't already a keeper. A cardioid mic like a 58 will reject quite a lot. I think people worry way too much about spill. A bit of spill is seldom a major problem.

I reckon what ever the singer feels most comfortable with do it that way.

dav nagle

studiorat wrote: »

Depends on the microphone used. Some people only work that way, Freddy Mercury did and Bono from the rock group U2 always uses an SM-58 in his hand with the big monitors turned up loud in the control room. No sound check, nothing, one, two, one, two, is this on? Lets go!!!

The trick is not to have anything in the mix that isn't already a keeper. A cardioid mic like a 58 will reject quite a lot. I think people worry way too much about spill. A bit of spill is seldom a major problem.

I reckon what ever the singer feels most comfortable with do it that way.

Surely when you go to stick a compressor on a vocal track with spill the spill is ever more present? By the way I bumped into Gavin Glass last night, very nice guy.

studiorat

dav nagle wrote: »

Surely when you go to stick a compressor on a vocal track with spill the spill is ever more present? By the way I bumped into Gavin Glass last night, very nice guy.

Only if you have the compressor with a huge make-up gain. With the output at unity it won't be any different. (try using those slidey up and down things on the desk too;))

We're not talking about facing the mic at the speakers here, but I've done vocals in the control room in loads of places and some singers just love it so I think it's always worth a punt and it hasn't been problem yet. Try it!

Mr. Glass would be the first to tell you getting a good sound is all about performance and musicians being in a comfortable place before it is about microphones or whatever. Those recordings he did in Nashville all were done with the whole band in the same room as the desk, tape machine the works!

I heard you were all down in "the Wheel" last night, would have headed in but the since I cycled nearly 40 miles on Sunday I wasn't moving off the sofa!

dav nagle

studiorat wrote: »

Only if you have the compressor with a huge make-up gain. With the output at unity it won't be any different. (try using those slidey up and down things on the desk too;))

We're not talking about facing the mic at the speakers here, but I've done vocals in the control room in loads of places and some singers just love it so I think it's always worth a punt and it hasn't been problem yet. Try it!

Mr. Glass would be the first to tell you getting a good sound is all about performance and musicians being in a comfortable place before it is about microphones or whatever. Those recordings he did in Nashville all were done with the whole band in the same room as the desk, tape machine the works!

I heard you were all down in "the Wheel" last night, would have headed in but the since I cycled nearly 40 miles on Sunday I wasn't moving off the sofa!

Congrats on the charity cycle good shizzle outta ya. Maybe when I am a bit older I might stop being such a self indulged ego maniac and do something for someone else!

So back to the topic!

If you want a thrilling performance and that live feel then blast it out of the monitors but if you want a polished shoe then use cans yeah?

johnnylakes

I've seen Shure Sm7 s used alot in control rooms. Metallica..Springsteen and a few others..seen it on film I should say, so who's to know if it was what I was actually hearing!!
A good old 57 would be a good option on a budget I think and maybe use headphones instead of the monitors when laying down the vocal??

teamdresch

Using the right mic with the singer listening back to the monitors is perfectly valid.
****, Sinatra used to sing in the room with a frickin' ORCHESTRA, dudes.

Aridstarling

If you're that worried about spill you can always record that spill at the same level with everything exactly the same and flip the phase, just leaves a clean vocal. Its always an option.

PaulBrewer

An Olde Day trick was to put mic and two monitors making the corners of an equilateral triangle.

Run the mix in mono then flip the polarity of one monitor.

Tweek the mic slightly to get minimum signal from the mic with a bit of experimentation i.e the point of maximum cancellation.

This can give you the best of both worlds - the freedom of no headphones with very little spill.

RealEstateKing

Myself included just HATE singing with headphones on.

My pitching is far better , phrasing more natural and performance more honest and artistic when Im singing along with monitors.

I can hear some old vocals recorded with cans, where I sound like Im singing to nobody and the performance just doesnt convince.

Besides which, spill is not your enemy: Spill is actually what holds records together. You might actually just find its the missing "warmth" ingredient that you've been looking for: And then you'll never need to go out and by some bull****ty peice of "tube" gear or tape simulator ever again!

dav nagle

I don't fancy the idea of mixing a vocal full of bleed but there you go.

madtheory

If you're going to use the cancellation trick, set it up before the singer arrives, because it takes ages. And it will only really work in an acoustically treated room.

Have to agree with realestateking, spill can be your friend.

studiorat wrote: »

I reckon what ever the singer feels most comfortable with do it that way.

Absofukinlutely.