One Third Of All Garda Stations Face Closure

Sierra Oscar

The Irish Independent is running a story in today's paper that 236 of all Garda stations face the threat of closure.

So, what are peoples opinions on this?

ONE-third of all garda stations are staffed by a single officer and face a serious threat of being shut down altogether, the Irish Independent has learned.

The fate of 236 'one-man' rural stations will form the focus of a new national review of bases set up by Garda Commissioner Fachtna Murphy.

Justice Minister Dermot Ahern is currently finalising tough new measures that will give gardai significantly increased powers to combat gangland criminals.

However, there are fears the focus on urban crime will leave isolated areas of the country vulnerable to criminals who are increasingly preying on rural businesses and families.

Rural garda stations have suffered a major decline in recent years as the force increased the number of officers in urban bases. Many have fallen into serious states of disrepair as the Government refused to invest in crumbling stations in some of the most isolated areas of the country.

Sources have indicated the cash-strapped force is now preparing to shut down many of the 236 stations being manned by a single officer, out of a total of 703 stations.

However, rural groups and rank-and-file officers last night warned such a move would have a devastating effect on the lives of communities living in some of the most isolated parts of the country.

"They (Government) see the future of the gardai all in centres of population and, like the cavalry in the Wild West, making a foray into bandit country every so often. That's their ultimate goal," Garda Representative Association president Michael O'Boyce said.

A spokesman for Justice Minister Dermot Ahern last night said there are no current plans to close any rural stations.

However, he could not comment on the ongoing review of garda bases or give any guarantee that rural stations would not be shut down in the future.

Figures obtained by the Irish Independent show there has been a huge increase in garda numbers in major city centre stations in Dublin, Cork and Limerick over the past six years.

There are now 292 gardai in Store Street in Dublin's city centre (up from 225 in 2002), 182 in Blanchardstown (up from 132), and 240 in Henry Street in Limerick (up from 184). There have also been big increases in the numbers assigned to specialist units like the Garda National Immigration Bureau.

But the numbers assigned to small rural stations have either remained static or declined.

Inevitable

Mr Boyce said rank-and-file officers are concerned some of the new civilian staff who had joined the upper echelons of the gardai did not understand the value of rural stations.

"There is no ambiguity in our policy -- every garda station in the country is needed and should be maintained," he said.

Fine Gael justice spokesman Charlie Flanagan said it was "inevitable" some of the smaller rural stations would be closed following the review.

However, he warned this would allow mobile criminals using motorways out of Dublin and other major cities to target rural communities with ease.

"The speed with which mobile criminals can leave the cities and carry out a concerted campaign of burglaries and return -- that's where there's a huge rural crime epidemic," he said.

He added that rural areas were already suffering from a "skeleton service" and could not afford any station closures.

"That would be to the detriment of rural communities. Particularly now as we're experiencing a new form of credit crunch crime, where people... are turning to burglary as a way of gaining access to cash," he said.

Rural support group Muintir na Tire has indicated it would be at the forefront of the campaign against any closures of rural garda stations.

"It would be a mistake to close the rural stations because people feel that having an open station and having a garda to confide in makes them feel more secure," community development worker Bernie Kearney said.

The Garda Press Office last night said it did not wish to expand on the information about the national review already provided by Commissioner Murphy.

Threat of closure hangs over 236 'one-man' garda stations

kerry4sam

:eek: Well firstly I personally find it frightening that we have even reached the stage where it is even an option! Secondly, this news could provoke such anger and fear that the moratorium on full-time recruitment may have to come to an end to ensure increased Garda numbers to prevent this huge amount of Garda Stations to close ... re-enforce Community Commitment ; Personal Protection ; State Security

on a side note: thanks Sierra Oscar for the link

Hooch

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The Irish Independent is running a story in today's paper that 236 of all Garda stations face the threat of closure.

So, what are peoples opinions on this?



Threat of closure hangs over 236 'one-man' garda stations

Regular posters here will know my stance on changing AGS community involvement and the ability to be approachable by the public. I think this will have a deathamental effect on AGS.

The olde country Garda is the back bone of AGS (im not one before anyone starts, im only a youngin!) They are the ones who solves the country crime and gets the info for the D/Gardaí. There are the ones with the local knowledge of not only residents, but townlands and areas. They are the ones who make the older residents feel safe calling for the cupa tea everynow any again.

Without these members in these country stations I truely do believe that AGS will become more unapproachable by the country folk. It takes a lot more to gain the trust of a small rural community than it does to gain the trust of a town or town folk.

My opinion really.....but open, as always to healthy debate.
NGA

(Thanks for posting Serria Oscar)

petergfiffin

The main point raised in the article seems to be that one man stations provide a deterrent factor to professional burglary gangs travelling down from urban areas which is something I would seriously question, I would imagine dedicated units backed up with air-support and strong intelligence would be far more effective. I can understand though how having a local station and local guard might provide some comfort to locals and may be invaluable for gathering local intelligence but maybe it's better to have a fewer number of slighlty larger stations with decent facilities than a large number of decrepid ones, I would have also thought that if you have larger stations you might be able to provide 24hour cover, albeit over a larger area.

When looking at the increased number for some stations I just wonder do those figures include reserves or full-time......but the government would never be that cynical would they? :rolleyes:

Hooch

petergfiffin wrote: »

The main point raised in the article seems to be that one man stations provide a deterrent factor to professional burglary gangs travelling down from urban areas which is something I would seriously question, I would imagine dedicated units backed up with air-support and strong intelligence would be far more effective. I can understand though how having a local station and local guard might provide some comfort to locals and may be invaluable for gathering local intelligence but maybe it's better to have a fewer number of slighlty larger stations with decent facilities than a large number of decrepid ones, I would have also thought that if you have larger stations you might be able to provide 24hour cover, albeit over a larger area.

When looking at the increased number for some stations I just wonder do those figures include reserves or full-time......but the government would never be that cynical would they? :rolleyes:

Just to explain, AGS is broken up into regions. Then into divisions. Divisions normally have 4 Districts. A District HQ is a 24 hour station. This may in turn have 4-8 sub stations (1-3 man stations). So when the country station closes the District HQ takes over. The country Garda does more than add comfort. As I said at least 50% of crimes are solved ONLY because they got information off the locals.
My main point is it brings AGS to a more personal level. DOnt know if your city or country. If your city you mightnt get it as easy as a country person will. Its important for country folk to know the local Garda by name, and it goes a long way of the Garda knows them by name.

As for the figures....my guess it it includes full time, reserve, students.....and dare i say civilian staff!!! Just to bulk up figures!

Trojan911

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

So, what are peoples opinions on this?

Does not surprise me, they'll call it cut backs. They did the same in London some years back. Now even some of the bigger stations (my old one) is down to near mothballing stage.

Yep, the locals will suffer. No doubt burglaries will rise in isolated areas.

TheNog

I was thinking about this a while ago and tbh I dont see the point of having one man stations in the rural areas. Of course I realise the importance of local knowledge because I grew up living attached to a 3 man station (then reduced to a 2 man station) with my Dad being one of them.

Having said that I noticed that most of my Dads interaction with local people was not in the station but out on the road/street or at people's homes.

So my question is why cant this local interaction continue even if local Gardai have to go to the District HQ to pick up their patrol cars?

I mean they will still patrol their own area and outside their hours, the sub-district will still be patroled by members from the District HQ so I cant see the problem really.

There is some problems that I can foresee though such as:

1. One man stations could be closed even destroyed but in our current climate it would be very difficult to sell the land and recoup some funds to plough back into the organisation

2. Space at any disctrict HQs is at a premium already so increased numbers of Gardai would be difficult in access to PULSE, lockers, parking etc etc

3. People having to travel further to get forms stamped

Hooch

TheNog wrote: »

I was thinking about this a while ago and tbh I dont see the point of having one man stations in the rural areas. Of course I realise the importance of local knowledge because I grew up living attached to a 3 man station (then reduced to a 2 man station) with my Dad being one of them.

Having said that I noticed that most of my Dads interaction with local people was not in the station but out on the road/street or at people's homes.

So my question is why cant this local interaction continue even if local Gardai have to go to the District HQ to pick up their patrol cars?

I mean they will still patrol their own area and outside their hours, the sub-district will still be patroled by members from the District HQ so I cant see the problem really.

There is some problems that I can foresee though such as:

1. One man stations could be closed even destroyed but in our current climate it would be very difficult to sell the land and recoup some funds to plough back into the organisation

2. Space at any disctrict HQs is at a premium already so increased numbers of Gardai would be difficult in access to PULSE, lockers, parking etc etc

3. People having to travel further to get forms stamped

Dont know your division nog but in most of the southern region members have to share country cars and collect them from District hq

I agree with all your problems listed though.

easyeason3

To most people who hate any member of public service then this will sound like a fantastic idea.
In reality it will be a complete disaster. But people will rant about the local Garda drinking tea or selling poitin on the side to keep himself occupied because there isn't enough crime in the area to justify keeping him there.
Wait for someone to get injured/ killed/ murdered/ not able to get out of the local GAA field because there's no one to direct traffic & then you will see a change in attitude.

Hooch

easyeason3 wrote: »

To most people who hate any member of public service then this will sound like a fantastic idea.
In reality it will be a complete disaster. But people will rant about the local Garda drinking tea or selling poitin on the side to keep himself occupied because there isn't enough crime in the area to justify keeping him there.
Wait for someone to get injured/ killed/ murdered/ not able to get out of the local GAA field because there's no one to direct traffic & then you will see a change in attitude.

Yep need the community roots. Nothing better imho. You made a great point....GAA the backbone of any community and usually the local Garda is stuck in it someway!:D

Sierra Oscar

Just my own view. One of the main issues I have with the plan is the assumption that anti-social behavior is confined to large urban cities.

This really is not the case, and it’s clear that many rural towns all across Ireland have been taken over by gangs of youths where many small local stations were closed in the 90's. Closure of rural stations and relocating to large division/district stations is nothing new - but personally I feel that the removal of Gardai from small towns and villages all around Ireland is resulting in the creation of crime beds in areas that have never experienced serious anti-social behavior crime in the past.

Also, I hate to say it - but the government’s plans of moving families from areas that are to undergo regeneration to rural towns and villages is spreading crime all across the country. Take Limerick city and small towns in County Limerick & Tipperary as an example of this. This latest plan will do nothing to combat crime which is spreading out from the cities.

seanybiker

ah thats a pity. Its more guards we need but they decide to close stations instead.
Someone already posted that its stations like this that are brilliant and the guards working in there stations are part of the community they are in and make the young and old feel safe.


Wonder if the one is gonna be gone from killinaskully

easyeason3

nice guy always wrote: »

Yep need the community roots. Nothing better imho. You made a great point....GAA the backbone of any community and usually the local Garda is stuck in it someway!:D

Well that was just a ridiculous example of what people in support of this will eventually say if stations are closed down. I forgot to add in traffic control for funerals :P

Seriously though as it is there's less recruits after being taken in this year, there won't be anymore taken on until 2011, overtime for Guards is going to be cut & I have it on good authority that over 200 Guards & administration staff have applied for early redundency in the last week alone.

The one thing that seems to flourish in a recession is crime. So take away local Garda stations regardless of how little crime there is in the area & everyone will see a huge increase in post office/ credit union raids, houses being robbed, bogus 'tradesmen' doing work for elderly people & clearing them out of thousands etc.

Sierra Oscar

seanybiker wrote: »

Wonder if the one is gonna be gone from killinaskully

Hehe, as you mention it I may as well point something out.;)

The station covering Ballinahinch (which is the area you see in Killinaskully) is actually Newport, which is a small rural station. In the late 90's the station was closed and officers were forced to operate directly out of Killaloe in the Clare Division. Prior to this there was a continuous Garda presence at the station. Between the closure of the station and last year, anti-social crime soared in the area mainly due to the complete absence of Garda patrols from the Killaloe District. Gardai from the district only responded to calls - as Killaloe is a very long distance from Newport, which is in Co. Tipp. Newport is actually far closer to Henry Street in Limerick City than Killaloe - so it is not all that surprising that there were few patrols from Killaloe into Newport.

Finally realizing that things were getting out of hand in Newport, the Nenagh district under the Tipperary Division took over control of the area, and the station that was closed was re-opened again at a great cost to allow a unit to be in the town at all times.

Basically, I feel this is a good example of how closing rural stations simply does not work - and in the long run we are going to spend heaps more money re-opening stations that were closed to save money in the first place.

I wonder how many rural towns and villages will have to experience this plight in the years to come?

congo_90

This news is terrifying! (not a gard myself, just a civilian). Where I live. The nearest District HQ for my area is a fair bit of a journey as is. Currently the local station is open to the public 3 hours a day. Crime has steadily increased in the area both anti social and "credit crunch crime".
Just today a car was burnt out at the bottom of my road. Recently my car was broken into. Naturally I called the gards who I knew were busy and were very helpful but didn't stay long as they had several other calls apparently. The younger crowd around here have destroyed the only *small* park which locals are afraid to go into and again fair play to the gards trying to keep it clear.

I fear something terrible the response time and crime in general will spiral upwards through the roof!

Is there any actions we can take? surely there is something that can be done?
Not just for the public but for the gards who will lose their jobs.

Sierra Oscar

congo_90 wrote: »

Not just for the public but for the gards who will lose their jobs.

Gardai will not loose their jobs. Instead they will be shoved into larger district and divisional stations, which are already over-crowded as it is.

TheNog

congo_90 wrote: »

This news is terrifying! (not a gard myself, just a civilian). Where I live. The nearest District HQ for my area is a fair bit of a journey as is. Currently the local station is open to the public 3 hours a day. Crime has steadily increased in the area both anti social and "credit crunch crime".
Just today a car was burnt out at the bottom of my road. Recently my car was broken into. Naturally I called the gards who I knew were busy and were very helpful but didn't stay long as they had several other calls apparently. The younger crowd around here have destroyed the only *small* park which locals are afraid to go into and again fair play to the gards trying to keep it clear.

I fear something terrible the response time and crime in general will spiral upwards through the roof!

Is there any actions we can take? surely there is something that can be done?
Not just for the public but for the gards who will lose their jobs.

Get a resident association going or some sort of committee together and discuss these problems. Once you have a committee going chat with the local Superintendent who can then assign one contact Garda for your area. Then you just pass on the information to that Garda but someone will have to make a complaint or statements down along the line to put manners on these thugs. Remember someone in your area knows who these thugs are.

Im one of those guards assigned to an estate where there was alot of goings on, mostly with small kids running amok and making life hell for other residents. I have calmed them down a bit for now and still keep a regular eye on them but especially get to know them and their parents.

There is one thing that people seem to forget. We cannot sort out your problems unless you help us by giving us information (which sometimes can only go so far) and by being witnesses for us in criminal prosecutions. For too long some people have this idea "Ah sure someone else can ring the cops" or "I dont want to get involved". Unfortunately it is your community that is under threat and we need your help in restoring peace for ye to live in.

congo_90

TheNog wrote: »

Get a resident association going or some sort of committee together and discuss these problems. Once you have a committee going chat with the local Superintendent who can then assign one contact Garda for your area. Then you just pass on the information to that Garda but someone will have to make a complaint or statements down along the line to put manners on these thugs. Remember someone in your area knows who these thugs are.

Im one of those guards assigned to an estate where there was alot of goings on, mostly with small kids running amok and making life hell for other residents. I have calmed them down a bit for now and still keep a regular eye on them but especially get to know them and their parents.

There is one thing that people seem to forget. We cannot sort out your problems unless you help us by giving us information (which sometimes can only go so far) and by being witnesses for us in criminal prosecutions. For too long some people have this idea "Ah sure someone else can ring the cops" or "I dont want to get involved". Unfortunately it is your community that is under threat and we need your help in restoring peace for ye to live in.

The trouble is they're coming from several estates, hanging around several estates. There is rumour some of the older crowd of them 16/17 are entering my estate as there's a "dealer" but the details of that is neither to be discussed now nor in best interests.
There is a community system. Don't get me wrong the place hasn't quite gone as bad as some place's i've lived. The thugs are very young and a lot of the trouble can be sourced to a handful.
I'm currently petitioning a neighbourhood watch scheme with the management company as the estate I live in is quite vulnerable

deadwood

This one comes up everyy few years. It'll be post offices next week.

If they start closing more of these places, these small towns will be left with a fire service type response.

Despite the best will in the world, disrict patrols will concentrate their efforts in the largr urban area in which they are based.

Liaison guards for certain areas are okay for PR purposes, but there's nothing like the local man who knows, and is known, by the people he meets every day.

The local man at the GAA match, in the local shops buying his Sun, Times and can of minnerdle can't be topped for p.r., local knowledge and good old policing.

Unfortunately, there is an attitude that these stations should also be last in line when it comes to allocation of resources, training or equipment.

easyeason3

TheNog wrote: »

Get a resident association going or some sort of committee together and discuss these problems. Once you have a committee going chat with the local Superintendent who can then assign one contact Garda for your area. Then you just pass on the information to that Garda but someone will have to make a complaint or statements down along the line to put manners on these thugs. Remember someone in your area knows who these thugs are.

Im one of those guards assigned to an estate where there was alot of goings on, mostly with small kids running amok and making life hell for other residents. I have calmed them down a bit for now and still keep a regular eye on them but especially get to know them and their parents.

There is one thing that people seem to forget. We cannot sort out your problems unless you help us by giving us information (which sometimes can only go so far) and by being witnesses for us in criminal prosecutions. For too long some people have this idea "Ah sure someone else can ring the cops" or "I dont want to get involved". Unfortunately it is your community that is under threat and we need your help in restoring peace for ye to live in.

That's fair enough, but in reality a lot of people don't want to bring trouble on themselves. When I was growing up I lived in what is considered a posh area & some local thugs decided they liked the look of my parents front wall & so took up residence on it.
After being asked politely not to sit on it because they were noisy & marking it with mucky shoes they responded by firing eggs at the house, bringing yet more friends with them to hang around outside & wrote on the wall.
The parents called the Guards a load of times but usually by the time they got there the thugs were gone or were waiting for a chase & took off in different directions.
It came to a head one night when my mother was walking in from the car & was told ' I'll burn your house if you ring the Guards again, you cnut'.
So my parents kept quiet & eventually the thugs looked old enough to buy naggins of vodka & get hammered in one of the carparks in town.

Moral of the story, not everyone is willing to take the chance.

Trojan911

easyeason3 wrote: »

but in reality a lot of people don't want to bring trouble on themselves.

I hear where you are coming from, however, this is what a large part of the problem is, everyone is willing to call police, but very few are willing to chase it up because of a number of reasons i.e. They don't want to go to court, they fear intimidation after or the problem is now gone so let it be etc.

If the police are called then at least people (the complainant) should follow it through, the pondlife might think twice about bothering a person again. But a person should also expect that this might be a drawn out process and may have to make several complaints before getting it sorted.

My advice: A camera or camcorder is a wonderful piece of kit.

deadwood

easyeason3 wrote: »

That's fair enough, but in reality a lot of people don't want to bring trouble on themselves.

That's the beauty of the local guard. On the beat, he'll know those kids don't belong on your wall. He won't have to get a phonecall, he'll know them by name and they'll know him/her. It's amazing the effect you have on a large group of people when you can call just one of them by name.

I'm a fan of taking a stroll around my patch. All the local lads know me by name. I know them too. When they're hanging around a certain area too long, they know i'll move them on. Now when they see me passing in a car on or off duty, they move - with a wave and a smile which I return.

A sneering look from a district car whizzing through a town doesn't have any effect. In fact, it's a challenge!

easyeason3

deadwood wrote: »

That's the beauty of the local guard. On the beat, he'll know those kids don't belong on your wall. He won't have to get a phonecall, he'll know them by name and they'll know him/her. It's amazing the effect you have on a large group of people when you can call just one of them by name.

I'm a fan of taking a stroll around my patch. All the local lads know me by name. I know them too. When they're hanging around a certain area too long, they know i'll move them on. Now when they see me passing in a car on or off duty, they move - with a wave and a smile which I return.

A sneering look from a district car whizzing through a town doesn't have any effect. In fact, it's a challenge!

I don't think it has a hope in hell of happening. It can't happen.
I'd be interested to know if Guards protested against it or went on strike how many of us ordinary people would back them on it?
For all the people who are against it how many would be willing to stand up & protest too? Because it will affect everyone at some level.

santosubito

Some confusion appears to have arisen concerning the closure of Garda stations, particularly in rural Ireland.

Speaking at the Garda Superintendents Association Annual Conference in Westmanstown today, the Commissioner availed of the opportunity to clarify the position by stating that “the Garda accommodation strategy is not targeted towards recommending the closure of Garda stations”.

He emphasised that “The aim of this strategy is clear and simple. It is about ensuring that Garda accommodation is safe, secure and fit for operational purpose to facilitate the ongoing delivery of the highest and most up-to-date standards of professional policing into the future”.

The Commissioner considers that a network of Garda Stations is a key tool in providing an effective policing service and the successful implementation of the National Model of Community Policing which he recently launched with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform

goldie fish

Well, when crime is out of control, they first close a few prisons. then they take legal handguns from their law abiding owners. It makes perfect sense with this logic, to close a few garda stations too.

Next step: All patrol cars limited to 50 miles per tour to save on fuel bills and wear and tear.