Road style wheels on mtb

littleknown

just wondering has anybody used the road style wheels with slick tyres on their mtb? how does it compare with a road bike?

blorg

littleknown wrote: »

just wondering has anybody used the road style wheels with slick tyres on their mtb? how does it compare with a road bike?

I haven't, but I have cycled hardtail MTBs both with and without front fork lockout and even with good lockout it will be nothing like a road bike. I have a couple of cyclocross frames on slicks too, which would be closer but still not half as light, nimble, etc. Why do you ask? Are you thinking of the Mavic 700c wheels on a MTB? Might be better just to try cheap slicks to start?

littleknown

blorg wrote: »

I haven't, but I have cycled hardtail MTBs both with and without front fork lockout and even with good lockout it will be nothing like a road bike. I have a couple of cyclocross frames on slicks too, which would be closer but still not half as light, nimble, etc. Why do you ask? Are you thinking of the Mavic 700c wheels on a MTB? Might be better just to try cheap slicks to start?

i have a decent mtb with automatic lockout on the forks and saw a set of wheels for sale with slicks etc and was thinking they mightnt be a bad idea, was thinking that another set of wheels would be easier than swapping the tyres around all the time, The wheels obviously smaller than road wheels but still pretty narrow looked good and i figure it would make a major improvement for the occasional road spin, might even take away the need to pick up a road bike, as i mainly do offroad .

tomc

Cant really compare with a regular road bike but have been using a hardtail with Ritchey slicks for the last 2 years, commuting, Sean Kelly Challenge, Wicklow 200 etc etc and absolutely love it. Ride is more upright and higher which is generally more comfortable and less aerodynamic.:)

blorg

My MTB is carbon and even with knobblies lighter than many road bikes... Have never tried it with slicks but reckon it wouldn't be a patch on even an entry level road bike to be honest. The position is completely off for long road rides, contrary to tomc I would think it is particularly uncomfortable for long distances (have done up to ~75km on it on "road" in the snow apart from cycling to the trails) as it puts too much weight on the saddle while a road bike will balance you between saddle, bars and pedals. Even with lockout the whole thing is a lot more bouncy than a road bike which will be nice and stiff. Position would be no problem around town mind.

If the wheels are cheap worth a punt but honestly even a top of the range MTB is < an entry level road bike on the road (vice versa also applies )

BostonB

littleknown wrote: »

just wondering has anybody used the road style wheels with slick tyres on their mtb? how does it compare with a road bike?

I've a slicks on my MTB. Much better then the knobblies. But if you consider...

... you don't have road ratios in the gears, smaller wheels, wider tyres, heavier frame and different design, body catches more wind. What can you expect? Course it depends on your route. Hills? Bad Surface? Distance etc. I expect it wouldn't make that much of a difference on a short spin. On a longer one it must do.

For the occasional road trip why not. Its cheap to swap tyres just to try it.

blorg

As the others say, swapping knobblies for slicks will make a big difference, did this with my Tricross to use as a commuter and it was like a different bike. The difference really is a lot but it is a world again to a road bike.

doozerie

I currently use my hardtail MTB for commuting but have used it a couple of times in the past for training rides with a road club. The slicks (26x1.3") make a huge difference when inflated to a their max pressure, and it is not that far off my road bikes in terms of performance. In terms of comfort it is better as the sitting position puts less pressure on your back in particular - the cost of that is a less aerodynamic position but depending on your level of fitness, etc., that may only be a small drawback. How much of a difference you experience from a road bike does depend on the geometry of your frame though, and mine (a Kona) happens to be not unlike that of a road bike.

My advice would be to put slicks on your existing wheels and try it out. The ones I use are Continental Sport Contact, and I've been happy with them. On short spins you won't benefit much by using a racer instead. As for long spins on the road, in the worst case you find that slicks alone don't work so well on your bike, making the ride more of a struggle in which case you get more of a workout than you expected (the glass is half full!). If you like it, then consider getting a second pair of wheels for the slicks at that stage.

In terms of weight, suspension and wheels are what add significantly to the weight of an MTB. My own bike has straight forks and the frame+forks are comparable to the weight of a road frame+forks. Swapping knobbly tyres for slicks brings down the weight of the wheels. Overall, my MTB is not heavy. Also, I have a relatively close-ratio block on it so the gear ratio is fine for off-road racing (and even non-racing, you just sweat a little more) or on-road use. Again though, if using it for training on the road, the gear ratios are not that important - a wide-ratio block is less efficient overall on the road but you can still get decent training out of it, you'll just train a little differently than you would otherwise.

When it boils right down to it, you wouldn't go out and buy an MTB to train on the road, but if that is what you already have then there is nothing wrong with adpating it a little to suit your needs, and it may not actually need much adapting at all.

avalanche

doozerie wrote: »

I currently use my hardtail MTB for commuting but have used it a couple of times in the past for training rides with a road club. The slicks (26x1.3") make a huge difference when inflated to a their max pressure, and it is not that far off my road bikes in terms of performance. In terms of comfort it is better as the sitting position puts less pressure on your back in particular - the cost of that is a less aerodynamic position but depending on your level of fitness, etc., that may only be a small drawback. How much of a difference you experience from a road bike does depend on the geometry of your frame though, and mine (a Kona) happens to be not unlike that of a road bike.

My advice would be to put slicks on your existing wheels and try it out. The ones I use are Continental Sport Contact, and I've been happy with them. On short spins you won't benefit much by using a racer instead. As for long spins on the road, in the worst case you find that slicks alone don't work so well on your bike, making the ride more of a struggle in which case you get more of a workout than you expected (the glass is half full!). If you like it, then consider getting a second pair of wheels for the slicks at that stage.

In terms of weight, suspension and wheels are what add significantly to the weight of an MTB. My own bike has straight forks and the frame+forks are comparable to the weight of a road frame+forks. Swapping knobbly tyres for slicks brings down the weight of the wheels. Overall, my MTB is not heavy. Also, I have a relatively close-ratio block on it so the gear ratio is fine for off-road racing (and even non-racing, you just sweat a little more) or on-road use. Again though, if using it for training on the road, the gear ratios are not that important - a wide-ratio block is less efficient overall on the road but you can still get decent training out of it, you'll just train a little differently than you would otherwise.

When it boils right down to it, you wouldn't go out and buy an MTB to train on the road, but if that is what you already have then there is nothing wrong with adpating it a little to suit your needs, and it may not actually need much adapting at all.

thanks doozerie, might save me a few bob and i can see if i want to buy a road bike after that. the bank balance will be happpy. ( for now )

one question though, how do you know which size tyre to get?

niceonetom

Did someone on this board just talk someone out of buying another bike?

WTF?

doozerie

avalanche wrote: »

one question though, how do you know which size tyre to get?

Your existing tyres will tell you the diameter and as for width when it comes to slicks the narrower the better. The narrowest I've used are my current ones at 1.3" although I believe 1.1" are available in other brands - either should work fine on standard MTB rims, but if you are in any doubt with your own rims it'd be worth confirming with the shop/site where you plan to buy the tyres.

The only issue I've had with the Continental Sport Contacts is that they are a tight fit on the rim and therefore can be tricky to remove. I've had the same issue with Continental tyres on a road bike. In both cases the rims were Mavic and I've not had similar problems with other tyre brands, so I think it is a peculiarity of the sizing of Continental tyres rather than Mavic rims, as such. A strong pair of tyre levers helps a lot (I have mangled two sets of plastic Park Tool levers in the past).

tribesman

If you decide to keep your existing wheels and just add slicks you'll need to consider how narrow a tyre will fit on the rims you've got. You shouldn't put a very narrow tyre on a wide MTB rim.

As usual Sheldon as it covered.....
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html

See the section on Width Considerations

blorg

As Sheldon says, that chart is conservative. I have used 23-35mm on the same 700c rim (Mavic Open Pro); I have heard of people going wider and the rim is explicitly approved for narrower.

You would generally want to go significantly narrower with slicks, compared to whatever knobblies you have on at the moment.

Lumen

blorg wrote: »

You would generally want to go significantly narrower with slicks, compared to whatever knobblies you have on at the moment.

On the other hand, a MTB with thin road tyres is a bad attempt at a road bike, whereas a MTB with fat slicks is a passable attempt at a city bike.

Losing the knobbly bits is the most important bit as they are worthless on the road, after that it's all down to tradeoffs between speed and comfort.

blorg

Lumen wrote: »

On the other hand, a MTB with thin road tyres is a bad attempt at a road bike, whereas a MTB with fat slicks is a passable attempt at a city bike.

Losing the knobbly bits is the most important bit as they are worthless on the road, after that it's all down to tradeoffs between speed and comfort.

Sure, but to take typical MTB tyre widths, 2.3" = 58mm, 2.1" = 53mm. These are crazy wide for the road. 1.3" = 33mm (still _much_ wider than a road bike.)

doozerie

I don't understand why people are so dismissive of an MTB with slicks. What'll make the biggest difference in terms of pure speed is the fitness of the rider, and a fit rider will do fine on such a bike on the road (and an unfit rider will become fitter faster by expending the extra effort it requires). The tyre width, aerodynamics, etc., help squeeze greater speed out, but unless you are an incredibly fit rider already you'll generally gain more from working on your fitness than you will on spending more money on tweaking your bike. In this thread we're not talking about breaking the world hour record, or even taking part in a road race, we're talking about someone making the most of what they currently have without having to spend more money than necessary.

If money were no object, and pure speed was the aim, I'd recommend trying a recumbent over a traditional road bike, but as it is such a suggestion wouldn't be very helpful or relevant either.

Karma

if your mtb has discs, get some 700c rims built up on Deore disc hubs(cheap enough) just swap over your block and away you go. there are many varitions of this setup, just get the right one for you. maybe look at a touring crankset(tripple) to cover all your gearing options.

it does look like you will have to swap something everytime you switch your setup.
1) swap tires if you have one set of wheels.
2) swap wheels(and block from regular use wheels)


narrower tires and a track pump...?

blorg

I'm not dismissive myself at all, I think step one is just to try slicks on current wheels, but you are fooling yourself if you think a MTB with slicks is in any was as fast or nimble as a road bike, or as suitable for long distance cycling. I have both and have done long distances on the MTB, I'm not just making it up

MTB with slicks is grand as an about town/commuting bike but not ideal for long road distances. From a comfort point of view the MTB position does not distribute weight as evenly and you lack the multiple hand positions you get in drops. You will also have energy losses but if you are looking for exercise rather than a time or to keep up with someone this is not as critical as the comfort issue.

There will also be an issue if you are on group rides with people on road bikes, unless you are going out with people a fair bit weaker than you, it will be very difficult to keep up. If you are keeping up OK, honestly you are substantially stronger than the people you are with. I notice a big difference even between my road and touring bikes in this manner and there the only significant difference is increased weight on the tourer.

OP did ask "how does it compare with a road bike?" so I was trying to answer that question and the answer is while a MTB with slicks is a hell of a lot better than one with knobblies but it is still not half as good as a road bike for long distances on the road. Weight distribution, hand positions, aerodynamics, bike weight and bounciness from the suspension (even with lockout) are all negatives.

However if you are looking at €50 on tyres versus €500+ for a second-hand/entry level road bike certainly makes sense to try the tyres first.

doozerie

blorg wrote: »

OP did ask "how does it compare with a road bike?" so I was trying to answer that question and the answer is while a MTB with slicks is a hell of a lot better than one with knobblies but it is still not half as good as a road bike for long distances on the road. Weight distribution, hand positions, aerodynamics, bike weight and bounciness from the suspension (even with lockout) are all negatives.

I disagree on how significant a difference there is between an MTB with slicks and a road bike. Certainly the geometry of a full suspension MTB, and the presence of the suspension in the first place, isn't conducive to maintaining a decent speed on the road, but a hard tail should be fine. Yes, it'll require more effort than a decent road bike (and not all road bikes are equal either, of course, so it does depend on the road bike), but the extra effort isn't necessarily huge. I've ridden a hardtail MTB with knobblies and had an easy ride with inexperienced people on road bikes, and I've ridden a hardtail with slicks and had to work hard (but with success) to stay with relatively experienced roadies. I couldn't hold the wheel of the top road amateurs in this country if I were on an MTB with slicks and they were on a good road bike, but I'd also have trouble holding their wheel if they were on an MTB with slicks and I was on a top of the range road bike i.e. the difference in effort involved isn't so huge that it'll override/overcome differences in basic fitness.

The weight difference is often exaggerated too. Take suspension out of the equation and suddenly the weight difference is not very significant. My steel-framed MTB is only marginally heavier than my steel-framed road bike. As for limited hand positions on an MTB, yes this can be an issue, but stick some bar ends on and that gives you several more hand positions and makes a huge difference.

lukester

As someone who went from a MTB with slicks for commuting to a road bike for the same purpose, I would categorise the difference as very large.

Over further distances, I did medium length spins (+/-40k) on the MTB from time to time, and it was perfectly doable, but on the road bike there was a vast difference in this area, in terms of comfort, effort to get to/maintain speed, and overall enjoyment. I tolerated longer rides on the MTB, loved them on the road bike.

To the OP, you will love the difference ditching knobblies gives you, and will want to stretch that bank a/c.

By spending that bit of cash, you are aiding economic recovery, so we all win. Yes, spending money on bikes and related accessories is a sign of moral virtue :pac:

BostonB

So if you've a MTB with slicks, is there any point switching to a hybrid, Like a Sirrus, or FCR for a 10k commute? Or is a case of "it depends". I was thinking of doing this, not because I'd be quicker but it might be slightly easier, and I might enjoy it more. Mind you I've an old MTB.

littleknown

to be honest i would love to get a road bike as well and know that this will be a poor excuse but i would only buy a road bike around the grand mark as i want something fairly decent without going overboard, this would however equal about a fifth of all my savings, and realistically speaking seeing as i may not have a job in a month or two i reckon it would be foolish to spend so much on something that really isnt necessary although i would love to be able to.:D

littleknown

found this pic, which is my bike and what it will look like with slicks, looks fast anyway!

Enduro

I used to do 70 miles+ spins on the road on a knobbly tired MTB weekly a few years back (back in the "only one bike" days). Definitely wasn't uncomfortable. I think comfort is a product of what you are used to. I'm only now (After about 2-3 years of use) getting really comfortable with the various road bike hand positions etc. I still find sitting upright on a big bouncy MTB to be the most comfortable of all bikes on any surface.

Again, a few years back, I put slicks on the MTB to do the Wicklow 200. It does make a big difference to road speed. And I would agree that its definitely the rider and not the bike that makes the speed difference. I had roadies slipstreaming of my rear wheel up most climbs (had they no shame!). ran out of gears trying to keep up with them on decents though.

blorg

littleknown wrote: »

found this pic, which is my bike and what it will look like with slicks, looks fast anyway!

Nice bike, looks like it would be quite nippy. What do you want to do on the bike? If it is relatively short journeys that will be fine, I would only consider the road bike if you want to get into long spins.

@BostonB- it depends, question might be more along the lines of "should I swap my old heavy bike for a new one" and then "what should I get"- I wouldn't bother swapping littleknown's MTB for a hybrid for example. 10km is not that long a distance but I generally enjoy riding a nice bike even over such relatively short distances.

tomc

littleknown wrote: »

to be honest i would love to get a road bike as well and know that this will be a poor excuse but i would only buy a road bike around the grand mark as i want something fairly decent without going overboard, this would however equal about a fifth of all my savings, and realistically speaking seeing as i may not have a job in a month or two i reckon it would be foolish to spend so much on something that really isnt necessary although i would love to be able to.:D

Dont forget the cycle to work scheme, if you can get your employer to agree! I just replaced my slick hardtail with a Focus Cayo and wouldn't have been able to get another bike only for this scheme. My inital reactions are, yes there is a big difference between the 2 bikes.

TomC

lukester

littleknown wrote: »

to be honest i would love to get a road bike

...i may not have a job in a month or two i reckon it would be foolish not to spend so much on something that really is necessary

Buy the bike.

If you lose the job, use the MTB to work as a courier for a bit. Or just enjoy all those spins on your shiny new bike :pac:

BostonB

If you were unemployed getting out on a bike would be great for your sanity and well being.

lukester

BostonB wrote: »

If you were unemployed getting out on a bike would be great for your sanity and well being.

Yep, been there, done that, last year. Proved a nice hiatus from being deskbound :pac:

littleknown

right this is a summary of the dilema,


Current setup.

- mtb bike used 4 times a month cost 1400


The Plan
Plan on doing some road cycling possibly twice a month maximum of 10 hours


2 possiblities

a) spend 50 quid on road tyres and use the one bike for the two.

b) spend another 1300 on a good road bike.

lukester

littleknown wrote: »

2 possiblities

a) spend 50 quid on road tyres and use the one bike for the two.

b) spend another 1300 on a good road bike.

I can't believe I'm about to say this.

Spend the 50 euro on new tyres and see how you get on. If you're hooked and want to do more road riding, you can very easily spend the extra dough.

The other side of the coin of course is that having a decent road bike will more than likely encourage you to get out more :pac:

Gavin

Go cycling with other people, it's more encouragement to cycle than cycling on your own. I find anyway

doozerie

littleknown wrote: »

2 possiblities

a) spend 50 quid on road tyres and use the one bike for the two.

b) spend another 1300 on a good road bike.

The only person who can determine which, if either, of these two choices is appropriate for you, is you. Some people will tell you that option a) will never work, others will tell you that option a) is the clear choice, but regardless of what anyone says only you can determine whether it is an option that actually works for you with your bike. Option b) might not suit you either (e.g. you could end up with a bike that you don't like or that doesn't suit you) so it's not necessarily a clear winner.

Basically, for either of the options you'll just have to try it out and see for yourself. Either might be fine, both could leave you disappointed, so what it boils down to is whether you are willing to gamble 50 euro or 1300 euro on an initial stab at a solution to your current needs.

BostonB

That's a lot of money for not a lot cycling.

avalanche

BostonB wrote: »

That's a lot of money for not a lot cycling.

depends really, im sure a lot of people spend more a year on drink, at least its something healthy and harmless to others,

martyc5674

avalanche wrote: »

depends really, im sure a lot of people spend more a year on drink, at least its something healthy and harmless to others,

I agree but i also agree with doozerie ...id spend the 50 quid..stay in one night ...if your not happy spend the extra.

just got into biking properly myself last year and did a lot of road spins on the MTB which i was well happy with...your fitness will be a lot better especially over short spins.
Boought a road bike recently(similar situation to yourself except not facing redundany fortunately)...and to be honest im only on the road bike to get value for the cash i spent.
At the end of the day its nice to have an opton of MTB V road bike but you could end up in the too many toys category:D.

If its fitness your after i wouldnt even change the tyres your currently running..it will only feel like hard work when you revert to the MTB.
marty