Big brother - neighbours watching our every move

cojomo2

ok.. if any1 here can give me advice on this...

i live in a compound of about 40 townhouses in dublin 4. Ive been here about 3-4 yrs, and therese two(
living in seperate houses)sad no-life nosey bitches that live accross from my place. You know the type, always out hanging around, watching every1s move, always looking out the window watching how u park and running out to give out if u do the slightest thing wrong...

anyway, 3 days ago i noticed 4 cctv cameras being installed around the main entrance ..i assumed that this was a new security measure by managment but found out yesterday that management knew nothing about it and has since emerged that these 2 wretches actually paid for them and have monitors in their gaffs so they can spy on us all, know when we leave, arrive, when we have friends over etc..
Ofcourse they will claim its for security but the truth is they are complete sad cases, have no jobs and the height of their lives is watching who is coming nd who is going..

so is this against the law?I plan on complaining to the management...

MysticalSoul

If they are neither the owner/landlord or part of the management company, I would expect that it is illegal. To me, it would create a higher security risk, that someone is observing my movements. I would personally be insisting the management company get onto this asap.

cojomo2

MysticalSoul wrote: »

If they are neither the owner/landlord or part of the management company, I would expect that it is illegal. To me, it would create a higher security risk, that someone is observing my movements. I would personally be insisting the management company get onto this asap.

she is incredibly nosey and as such she is on the management commitee..goes to the meetings to get all the gossip etc..but the cameras are nothing to do with the management..its her and her friends doing..she has been living here for about 20 yrs r so and as such think she owns the place..she owns 1 house here which she lives in-that is all.

Hagar

Dark night, balaclava, hammer.

Repeat as required.

Blazer

Hagar wrote: »

Dark night, balaclava, hammer.

Repeat as required.

Agreed...let see's how deep her pockets are

Any chance you can claim invasion of privacy?

Armin_Tamzarian

Better idea would be to put the balaclava on,
take the cameras down and sell them on eBay.

Now that would be delicious ironing indeed.

Ginger83

Hagar wrote: »

Dark night, balaclava, hammer.

Repeat as required.

Nah-Air Rifle would be my move. you could always practice on the windows first to warm up of course.

The_Conductor

OP- lodge an official complaint with the Management Company- the fact that she is on the committee is wholly irrelevant. If necessary send a solicitors letter. No-one is within their rights to unilaterly spy on their neighbours.

Redzer7

Definately Not Against The Law But Nothing A Hammer And A Balaclava Wont Fix

The_Conductor

Using destructive means to remove the camera could potentially result in a civil liability on the part of the destroyer. There will be no further discussion of this here. Regards, SMcCarrick

Hagar

Just to clear things up, I wasn't seriously advocating the use of violence or any illegal activity. It was ment as a joke, not to be taken seriously. I thought it was fairly obviously a humourous comment. I was wrong. Sorry about that.

Go through the official channels. The people concerned have not got the right to spy on anybody. They probably don't have the right to attach anything to the walls of the buildings much like not having rights to fit tv aerials, washing lines, sat dishes etc.

Redzer7

I Was Also Joking

The_Conductor

Fine. There was a reported post on the matter- which is why Hagar was clarifying the matter.

Matter is now closed.

S.

the_syco

So... if someone go their hands on those tapes, they would see when you'd usually leave, and come back at? I'd get them removed, as someone with those tapes would know when to rob your place!

bug

the_syco wrote: »

So... if someone go their hands on those tapes, they would see when you'd usually leave, and come back at? I'd get them removed, as someone with those tapes would know when to rob your place!

I agree, a basis to go to the guards and express concern that individuals are monitoring CCTV rather than a monitoring company or security firm.

Ask around the complex and see how other people feel about this. Get advice or log a concern with the local Garda.

congo_90

there are also no notices up on the premises to mention the usage of cctv footage which makes it further illegal as I can't remember the law but there has to be clear notices for this. The idea that they've installed the cams is a bit spooky especially the quantity.
For now (with out advocating violence) just accidentally bump into em as you walk by and let the cam record the ground. Otherwise contact your management company and have them remove the camera's with immediate affect. Also, park your car a lil crooked outside sometime :P:P Had neighbours just like yours before except the cams were on their own property (on a 20 foot pole)

homah_7ft

Could there also be a case of bringing it to the notice of the data protection commisioner since they might be keeping the recordings.

mikemac

Supposing you get the cameras removed.

They will probably just install them on their own houses and then you'll have to go through this again.

Having them at the main entrance is out of order.
But if them put them on their house they might still get a panoramic view of the estate but they will just claim they are monitoring their driveway.

Have these curtain twitchers put up signs about cameras?

cls

Why are you so concerned about it? Do you have something to hide? Sounds to me like they're doing everyone a favour.

Ste.phen

You could probably get them in some serious financial trouble if they don't remove the cameras immediately after you request them to (i strongly recommend doing this in writing and via recorded delivery)

Ste.phen

cls wrote: »

Why are you so concerned about it? Do you have something to hide? Sounds to me like they're doing everyone a favour.

Nonsense, if the residents in general wanted CCTV they could pay for it through the management company and have a centrally organised system. This sounds very much like a case of some nosy, somewhat creepy individuals spying on their neighbours.

Paulw

There is no law saying that they can't erect cctv cameras. There is no law about it being monitored by a security firm rather than an individual. Once the cameras are viewing a public area, they are fine.

While you may have an issue with them monitoring you, I'll bet you'd be very glad they had cctv recordings if anything was broken in to and stolen.

Besides, how many cctv cameras do you pass in a day, that would know the time you are home/not home.

If you have a concern, raise it through the proper channels.

DonJose

How could they install security cameras outside their property boundries. Did they receive the permission of the management company to erect these cameras, did they obtain planning permission from the local county council?

cls

Ste.phen wrote: »

Nonsense, if the residents in general wanted CCTV they could pay for it through the management company and have a centrally organised system. This sounds very much like a case of some nosy, somewhat creepy individuals spying on their neighbours.

They don't need their neighbours persmission to erect security cameras. Nor can they be sued for monitoring you. Every time you walk by or enter a commercial business you are being filmed. I can stand on the street corner with a camcorder and film you and there's nothing you can do about it. In fact, if you were to do anything about it it would be you who could be sued.

Mary D

Make a serious complaint to the Management Company, chances are these cameras were erected on a common area and the nosey neighbour would have no authority to place ANYTHNING on a common area. Insist to the Management Company that there are removed immediately. Tell them you live in a private residential area and you don't feel comfortable being monitored by your neighbours.

Ste.phen

cls wrote: »

They don't need their neighbours persmission to erect security cameras. Nor can they be sued for monitoring you. Every time you walk by or enter a commercial business you are being filmed. I can stand on the street corner with a camcorder and film you and there's nothing you can do about it. In fact, if you were to do anything about it it would be you who could be sued.

I suspect you're ignoring the possibility that they're recording the images, in which case the Data Protection Act would kick in.
Businesses all have signs up (or are supposed to) stating that CCTV recording is in place, what the purpose is, and letting you know where to contact for copies of tapes which contain your image.
There's also a suggestion in the OP that the cameras were installed on property other than the people in question's houses.

irishgrover

cojomo2 wrote: »

anyway, 3 days ago i noticed 4 cctv cameras being installed around the main entrance ..

from the OP statement above it sounds like the cameras are not on the neighbors private property, rather on the common area, which would I assume be under the control of the management company?
If this is the case, I would suggest contacting the management company directly and requesting all information about said cameras, who installed them, who monitors the feeds, is information being recorded, if yes, where is it being stored, do they have a compliance statement with regard to the data protect act etc etc

otwb

1) management company should take action against the nosey woman for defacing common area property. Lodge a formal complaint with the management company

2) afaik you are not entitled to view or record people without their consent. There should be signs up stating the reason for and contact details for the monitoring company/person. www.dataprivacy.ie

Paulw

otwb wrote: »

2) afaik you are not entitled to view or record people without their consent. There should be signs up stating the reason for and contact details for the monitoring company/person. www.dataprivacy.ie

In that case, every shop/office, city with CCTV cameras are in breach of your assumption. Your consent is not required if you are in a public area, or in an area where you have no expected right to privacy.

But, in fact, they are within their right to record you, but their use of the recorded information falls under the Data Protection Act. They may be monitoring you, without recording anything (camera straight to TV), and so the Data Protection Act does not cover this at all. Also, signs or no signs, it doesn't make any difference at all.

From what I can see, the only issue the OP can have, is that the CCTV camera(s) are mounted probably without permission from the management company. Nothing more.

cls

otwb wrote: »

2) afaik you are not entitled to view or record people without their consent. There should be signs up stating the reason for and contact details for the monitoring company/person. www.dataprivacy.ie

That kind of defeats the purpose of CCTV cameras. It would mean CCTV evidence would not be admissable in court without the permission of the accused :rolleyes:

bangersandmash

If these residents involved are, as the OP says, actively involved in the management committee, they could have tried having additional security cameras installed in public areas by consensus rather than resorting to this themselves.

It would be interesting to know what kind of anti-social behaviour these people are hoping to capture in an established development of townhouses in D4.

hobochris

Paulw wrote: »

In that case, every shop/office, city with CCTV cameras are in breach of your assumption. Your consent is not required if you are in a public area, or in an area where you have no expected right to privacy.

But, in fact, they are within their right to record you, but their use of the recorded information falls under the Data Protection Act. They may be monitoring you, without recording anything (camera straight to TV), and so the Data Protection Act does not cover this at all. Also, signs or no signs, it doesn't make any difference at all.

From what I can see, the only issue the OP can have, is that the CCTV camera(s) are mounted probably without permission from the management company. Nothing more.

just because the use of CCTV without notice is common practice, doesn't mean it isn't against the law. Like many laws recently introduced They are not observed or well known. And will only be enforced once a prosecution has been made in the public eye, such has been the case in the UK.

The law in question is the European surveillance laws(which are also the reason why the Garda have to publish any planned speed traps in local media) & article 8 in the European consortium human rights.

Also should they record anything the data protection act comes into play.

And as you said there is also the minor issue of not having the management companies permission.

cojomo2

bangersandmash wrote: »

It would be interesting to know what kind of anti-social behaviour these people are hoping to capture in an established development of townhouses in D4.

one of the cameras is aimed at the communal bin room- as on occasion, some people have put bottles etc in there which is not permitted- i dont have an issue with this, but the other 3 are pointed at the entrance where there is an electric gate, one in the opposite direction so they can see which part of the development you turn into when you enter, and anoter pointing rite into one of the communal areas.

for those who see nothing wrong with this, how would you like ur nosey neighbour (who pesters every1 about minor issues) having her own private cctv cameras recording you? these cameras are NOT on her property, and are not even visabble from her property...

Paulw

In our development we have cctv cameras - pointing at the bin sheds (to catch illegal dumping and people not putting rubbish in to the bins), cameras pointed at all entrance gates, and cameras around the car park to see all areas.

I think I'm the only resident with access to the CCTV system, as well as the management agent having access.

Ours were all installed after it was voted in at our AGM two years ago. More than anything, people have been thankful - we've captured crimes being committed, and prosecuted some for illegal dumping.

Are you 100% sure that the CCTV is owned by the one neighbour? That's someone with plenty of money, obviously.

In your case, OP, I can't see what your issue is. So what if they see you come and go? Again, if you've an issue, why don't you join the committee and make a complaint to the management agent?

jmayo

cojomo2 wrote: »

ok.. if any1 here can give me advice on this...

i live in a compound of about 40 townhouses in dublin 4. Ive been here about 3-4 yrs, and therese two(
living in seperate houses)sad no-life nosey bitches that live accross from my place. You know the type, always out hanging around, watching every1s move, always looking out the window watching how u park and running out to give out if u do the slightest thing wrong.....

Why do I get the feeling we are only hearing one side of the argument ?
What do you mean by the "slightest thing wrong" ?

Half the time we are hearing how people don't care about their areas, their communities and don't give a damm about anyone but themselves.
Then when somebody does start watching things they are accused of being "sad no-life nosey bitches" :rolleyes:

To everyone backing up the OP and their viewpoint would you be glad there is someone in your neighbour keeping an eye on things.
Call them nosey or sad if you want, but as another poster said you might be damm glad of them keeping an eye on your property, especially if it helps catch someone breaking into it or prevents damage to it.

Of course the modern PC view is that our personal space is paramount and the individaul rules over the greater good of a community.

Victor

Paulw wrote: »

otwb wrote: »

2) afaik you are not entitled to view or record people without their consent. There should be signs up stating the reason for and contact details for the monitoring company/person. www.dataprivacy.ie

In that case, every shop/office, city with CCTV cameras are in breach of your assumption. Your consent is not required if you are in a public area, or in an area where you have no expected right to privacy.

On private property, consent is implied, presuming there is a conspicuous notice.

In a public area, it may rest on whether the act of filming (not the actual recording) could constitute harassment.

cojomo2

jmayo wrote: »

Why do I get the feeling we are only hearing one side of the argument ?
What do you mean by the "slightest thing wrong" ?
.

well she has stormed over to my house twice because my mate called round and parked in the communal parking area ..which she says is for residents only...this is despite the fact there was loads of free spaces and the fact that she has her son visit for a few days every so often and he parks there. Also some dude in a jeep visits her regulary and parks here too.

on another ocasion, her son(who does not live there) took it upon himself to plaster an A4 page on my car saying 'no parking here' as he didnt recognise my car... i took it up with her on got a half hearted apology..

jmayo

cojomo2 wrote: »

well she has stormed over to my house twice because my mate called round and parked in the communal parking area ..which she says is for residents only...this is despite the fact there was loads of free spaces and the fact that she has her son visit for a few days every so often and he parks there. Also some dude in a jeep visits her regulary and parks here too.

on another ocasion, her son(who does not live there) took it upon himself to plaster an A4 page on my car saying 'no parking here' as he didnt recognise my car... i took it up with her on got a half hearted apology..

Well next time her son or friend in the jeep turn up you could give her a taste of her own medecine and see how she likes it.
As regard son sticking A4 sheet to your car, if he does it again tell her he has no right to do that and if he ever goes near your property again you will report him for damage to your property.

But try and get her on side, because she probably has more time on her hands to play silly buggers. Maybe she gets a kick out of winding you up, you never know ?
I know it does pay if someone is watching what's going on, becuase some day some dude might be leaving with your TV and she is probably the only one that will spot it.