Part Time Farming? Yes or No?

camera

I would be grateful for any views on my situation....

I have access to 90acres of land. Didnt have until recently due to variety of factors, living away from home, attending college, parents in farm retirment scheme etc

I work a 9 to 5 job and have been out of farming for a long time but have kept a few bullocks in last few years, which I have thoroughly enjoyed. Set up is two cubicle houses with haybarn and open slurry pit. I have a MF 168 (great yoke!),a sprayer and a transport box.

Ideally, I would like to buy a few sucklers and a few bullocks and combine this with the job

I would need to invest a few bob to get started. For example, some kind of job would need to be done on teh cubicle houses (put in slatted tanks etc).

I suppose my question is, am I mad to be thinking of doing this? Am I wasting money by investing this kind of cash in part time farming?

I'd love to hear from anyone who is doing something similiar or who has any thoughts on the above. Thanks.

fig mclough

id say go for it but with your job you might not be able to keep cows!!!!
few nice small lads is wat you want and rare them for factory!!!!!!
Money wise it is a waste but its for your own personal enjoyment!!!!!
many part time farmers around me say its just a hobby!!!!

irish_bob

camera wrote: »

I would be grateful for any views on my situation....

I have access to 90acres of land. Didnt have until recently due to variety of factors, living away from home, attending college, parents in farm retirment scheme etc

I work a 9 to 5 job and have been out of farming for a long time but have kept a few bullocks in last few years, which I have thoroughly enjoyed. Set up is two cubicle houses with haybarn and open slurry pit. I have a MF 168 (great yoke!),a sprayer and a transport box.

Ideally, I would like to buy a few sucklers and a few bullocks and combine this with the job

I would need to invest a few bob to get started. For example, some kind of job would need to be done on teh cubicle houses (put in slatted tanks etc).

I suppose my question is, am I mad to be thinking of doing this? Am I wasting money by investing this kind of cash in part time farming?

I'd love to hear from anyone who is doing something similiar or who has any thoughts on the above. Thanks.

tremendous value to be had at the moment when it comes to building sheds , the cost of labour and steel has collapsed and slats can be bought cheaper too

The_Conductor

Once you accept that its purely a hobby, and that you are unlikely to see a return on your investment- be it both time, effort and money- is unlikely- go for it!

90 acres is a very reasonable sized holding- keeping some drystock is not necessarily a viable economic usage of the holding- would you consider combining other on-farm enterprises with your 9-5 job? Some horticultural endeavours have reasonable returns, and reasonable time requirements.

It would be well worth your while consulting an agricultural advisor- 90 acres is a very reasonable sized holding- there is no reason it should not be a valuable income stream for you.

charliecon

You should definitely go for it and maybe buy light store heifers which are great value at the moment ,put them on grass for the summer and then in the backend shed them and push them to finish around the 24 month mark which will get you a better price.
There is very small money in suckling cows for the amount of work you would have to put in and if you have a job its going to be difficult to manage them. I wouldn't go building any new sheds yet if I were you camera ,maybe just a slatted tank outside the cubicle shed with a feed barrier around it and install an automatic scraper to push the dung out on it which the cattle will then tramp down.
Whatever you do decide to do I wish you the best of luck but start small and build up gradually and dont put a pile of debt on yourself

ravima

agree with smccarrick - consult advisor and consider REPS. What part of the country are you?

reilig

ravima wrote: »

agree with smccarrick - consult advisor and consider REPS. What part of the country are you?

REPS 4 closes on May 15th. Its almost too late to go to a planner now to get him/her to do out a plan. I tried it last week and was told by 10 different people that they are completely booked out and I should have though of applying in January. Realisticly the only way you'll get a plan done is if you know a reps planner well and they do it as a favour for you.

dryan

There has been no announcemant on this yet -REPS4 closing on May 15th - is it deffinitely true?
This is a disaster for the farming community as a whole.

reilig

dryan wrote: »

There has been no announcemant on this yet -REPS4 closing on May 15th - is it deffinitely true?
This is a disaster for the farming community as a whole.

I don't know if there was a public announcement or not, but the REPS planners have all been told that May 15th is the deadline for people who want to join REPS 4. They have been told that there is no guarantee that anyone who joins after this date will be accepted into the scheme. (A budget cut I'm sure). They haven't said that REPS 4 is closing. They have just said that anyone who joins after this date is not guaranteed to get in.

locky76

camera how's the form?
i was in a similar situation to you about three years ago and took on the running of the family farm, similar size, badly run down, no stock.
drop me an e mail and i'll give you some advice about mistakes i made, things i did ok and things that really worked out for me (purely by luck!)
my e mail address is: 0510858@student.ul.ie
i've no doubt that farm could be making €15k to €20k a year for you in two or three years times as a part time enterprise!

camera wrote: »

I would be grateful for any views on my situation....

I have access to 90acres of land. Didnt have until recently due to variety of factors, living away from home, attending college, parents in farm retirment scheme etc

I work a 9 to 5 job and have been out of farming for a long time but have kept a few bullocks in last few years, which I have thoroughly enjoyed. Set up is two cubicle houses with haybarn and open slurry pit. I have a MF 168 (great yoke!),a sprayer and a transport box.

Ideally, I would like to buy a few sucklers and a few bullocks and combine this with the job

I would need to invest a few bob to get started. For example, some kind of job would need to be done on teh cubicle houses (put in slatted tanks etc).

I suppose my question is, am I mad to be thinking of doing this? Am I wasting money by investing this kind of cash in part time farming?

I'd love to hear from anyone who is doing something similiar or who has any thoughts on the above. Thanks.

adne

reilig wrote: »

I don't know if there was a public announcement or not, but the REPS planners have all been told that May 15th is the deadline for people who want to join REPS 4. They have been told that there is no guarantee that anyone who joins after this date will be accepted into the scheme. (A budget cut I'm sure). They haven't said that REPS 4 is closing. They have just said that anyone who joins after this date is not guaranteed to get in.

May the 15th is deadline for joining this year... u can join after this but no gurantee and you will be joining for the subsequent year

reilig

adne wrote: »

May the 15th is deadline for joining this year... u can join after this but no gurantee and you will be joining for the subsequent year

The fear is that the scheme will be closed. They've taken everything else, I'm sure they'll close this one too and just keep the people that have already joined it before may 15.

The_Conductor

Is it true that REPS payments are going to have the income levy applied to them? There is a story in the farming Independent today discussing applying levies on all disbursements by the Department. Does anyone know?

reilig

smccarrick wrote: »

Is it true that REPS payments are going to have the income levy applied to them? There is a story in the farming Independent today discussing applying levies on all disbursements by the Department. Does anyone know?

Yes, I read that too. Its hard to know how they will apply it though. Personally, after spending a lot of money on farmyard investments and machinery in 2009, I stand to make a significant loss on my farm this year. But that was planned as I am trying to grow my farm over the next 3 years. (Thank god for the off farm job). One has to wonder will they base the levy on profit made or will they go hell for leather for the REPS and single Payment and take 2% to 4% from it at source. The farming independent suggests that they will deduct it straight from these payments, but could they actually do that?
Tomorrow's Journal will have more to say on it.

johnstown

Doubt it would be deducted by DAFF at source. Forestry premiums (as yet to be paid) are not being adjusted for the levy.

reilig

johnstown wrote: »

Doubt it would be deducted by DAFF at source. Forestry premiums (as yet to be paid) are not being adjusted for the levy.

To quote yesterday's independent

"Questions have been raised regarding the legality of the proposed reduction in the premium payments"

and

"The decision to impose the levy on Gross Farmer Incomes without capital allowances being taken into consideration, has been widely criticised by farmer bodies"

Both suggest that we will be hit directly on premiums received for 2% to 4%.

Also with regard to forestry premiums I quote

"It has been suggested that forestry premium payments will be hit by the levy, even though the scheme is marketed as being tax free"

Maybe they held back on paying forestry premiums for a reason?

johnstown

There is no doubt the levy will apply, but not at source, i.e. I would imagine it would be the usual self-declaration.
Farmer payslips are supposed to include a note reminding them that the income may be subject to the levy.

The forestry premium run is just waiting to be sanctioned.

iron man

yea

i have a similar question to ask about "Hobby farming". I am a civil servent. this last couple of years or so i have taken to a bit of sheep farming on a part time basis. Its in my blood!!! i got a Herd number and now have 20 sheep. Im not goiung to add to this. the thing is that I have been told that i should be paying Tax on anything that i earn on them. The thing is... im making nothing on them. it costs a fortune to keep them.i dont keep any receipts on what i spend, but its a Hobby should i be paying tax??? can anyone give me any usefull advice. Loads a guys are doing the same thing as me but do they pay tax??

The_Conductor

iron man wrote: »

yea

i have a similar question to ask about "Hobby farming". I am a civil servent. this last couple of years or so i have taken to a bit of sheep farming on a part time basis. Its in my blood!!! i got a Herd number and now have 20 sheep. Im not goiung to add to this. the thing is that I have been told that i should be paying Tax on anything that i earn on them. The thing is... im making nothing on them. it costs a fortune to keep them.i dont keep any receipts on what i spend, but its a Hobby should i be paying tax??? can anyone give me any usefull advice. Loads a guys are doing the same thing as me but do they pay tax??

You don't necessarily have to pay tax- you are statutorily required however to make a tax return. Tax only has to be paid if you have a taxable income on which to pay it. In your case, you don't. You really should take a lot more care in collecting receipts etc for absolutely everything- as a civil servant with an alternate income stream- you are a prime candidate for an audit.

reilig

smccarrick wrote: »

You don't necessarily have to pay tax- you are statutorily required however to make a tax return. Tax only has to be paid if you have a taxable income on which to pay it. In your case, you don't. You really should take a lot more care in collecting receipts etc for absolutely everything- as a civil servant with an alternate income stream- you are a prime candidate for an audit.

I'll add to that a little bit. A tax return for yourself (a paye worker) is as simple as keeping a profit and loss account and filling the details of any profit or loss into a form 12 and returning it to the Revenue. When you're not taking in or spending out a lot of money you don't have to make it too complicated.

I know its hard to keep receipts for everything because like myself you probably pay for some things by cash or you may even pay people that don't or can't issue receipts. This can be overcome by keeping a cheque book and pay for everything with cheques. Most banks can supply you with a cheque book with duplicate page after each cheque. These are your receipts and are acceptable to revenue.

iron man

yea

im hearing all these horror stories about revenue catching guys out and then collecting all the tax owed. not alone that, there are massive penalties involved as well. i guess im just a bit nervous on what to do. once you go to revenue your stuck for life..... An accountant was telling me that if you describe yourself as a hobby farmer, then you can be exempt from paying tax. i have checked the revenue web sit and cant find this. is this true?

The_Conductor

iron man wrote: »

yea

im hearing all these horror stories about revenue catching guys out and then collecting all the tax owed. not alone that, there are massive penalties involved as well. i guess im just a bit nervous on what to do. once you go to revenue your stuck for life..... An accountant was telling me that if you describe yourself as a hobby farmer, then you can be exempt from paying tax. i have checked the revenue web sit and cant find this. is this true?

iron man- it sounds like you do not have a tax liability associated with your small flock of sheep at all. Its not that difficult to do an annual tax return- its a bit of a pain in the arse- its mind numbingly boring, but you may find that there are credits that you're not currently claiming as a PAYE employee- the balance of probability is that you probably have money due to you.

Don't put off ringing Revenue to normalise your affairs- the longer you leave it, the deeper the hole you'll find yourself in. They are actually fairly reasonable people, and once its obviously that you're not trying to pull a fast one, they will more often than not, do their best to help you in any manner they can. Ring them sooner rather than later though- and do your damndest to try to recreate records if at all possible.

You can get a small profit and loss ledger in your local shop which is a very good way of keeping track of your inputs and outputs.

S.