Damn those Nazis for taking the swastika from religion :(

Thirdfox

I happen to like its symbolic meaning (love, mercy or strength, intelligence - depending on which way the circle is turning). And coming from an Asian background I see plenty of Buddhist temples, monks etc. wearing/displaying the swastika proudly... but over here it's been (irreparably?) tainted by the Nazis - I recall one lady on the radio talking about how "shocked!" she was to see an Asian designed bag had swastikas on it...

Similar to KKK hoods and their legitimate religious use in Spanish ceremonies... is anyone else fed up with people misinterpreting symbols? One of my Buddhist charms has a swastika (the left facing version and not the Nazi right facing one) but I'd still feel uncomfortable letting people see it here.

We took the tricolour off the 'RA - can't we take back our other symbols too? Is there some way to separate these symbols with some of their history (at least in the Western world - over in Asia swastikas are fine - unless you actualy have the Nazi symbol).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#Etymology_and_alternative_names

liah

I've always really liked the look and meaning of the original swastika, too. It's a wonderful symbol, just a shame so many people are ignorant about its legitimate meaning and origins and don't understand that it's only the swastika that's rotated at that angle that represents anything bad, not the "default."

Sigh, what can you do...

amacachi

I agree with the OP, this is by far the worst thing the Nazis did.

Thirdfox

And I'm sure the poor religious Spanish who wish to wear their "capirote" hoods can't wear it anywhere outside the Spanish countries without misunderstanding
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capirote_(cucurucho)

liah wrote: »

I've always really liked the look and meaning of the original swastika, too. It's a wonderful symbol, just a shame so many people are ignorant about its legitimate meaning and origins and don't understand that it's only the swastika that's rotated at that angle that represents anything bad, not the "default."

Sigh, what can you do...

I suppose knowledge is power - well, at least those who have read this thread know about the original meaning (and current meaning in quite a few countries) now.

amacachi wrote: »

I agree with the OP, this is by far the worst thing the Nazis did.

Since this is AH I'll take it you're mocking me - I think the genocide of the Jews is ranked somewhat higher than debasing a holy symbol (and in many cases not holy but a basic symbol that humans have used throughout ancient times). But I still think I raise a legitimate question - in that can "tainted" symbols be washed clean? I gave the example of Irish pride in seeing our tri-colour again... care to give your views?

xOxSinéadxOx

amacachi wrote: »

I agree with the OP, this is by far the worst thing the Nazis did.

holocaust? just sayin...

cHaTbOx

xOxSinéadxOx wrote: »

holocaust? just sayin...

Apparently it didn't happen

xOxSinéadxOx

cHaTbOx wrote: »

Apparently it didn't happen

just sayin?

cHaTbOx

xOxSinéadxOx wrote: »

just sayin?

Imagine finishing every statement or insult with "just sayin'".
I ****ed your mum, just sayin'
Hitler was a great guy , just sayin'
He wanted peace , just sayin'
His role model was Charlie Chaplin,just sayin'
I have no point to this , just sayin'
Sorry,just sayin'

Zebra3

Totally agree with the OP, but there's still plenty of swastikas around Ireland. Check out the inside of the papist church on Francis St in Dublin if you wanna see a sh!t load of them.

Use the swastika all you want. Brits and Americans happily fly their flags despite them being symbols of ethnic cleansing and genocide.

Fck the clueless pc brigade.

cHaTbOx

In September 2007 the United States Navy announced it would spend $600,000 to "camouflage" a barracks at the Naval Amphibious Base Coronado near San Diego, so that it would no longer resemble a swastika from the air

It is ignorance. It is such a powerful symbol , it is engrained in most peoples minds as resembling something evil. I'd imagine if the cross was used in that way there would be hangups about that

xOxSinéadxOx

cHaTbOx wrote: »

Imagine finishing every statement or insult with "just sayin'".
I ****ed your mum, just sayin'
Hitler was a great guy , just sayin'
He wanted peace , just sayin'
His role model was Charlie Chaplin,just sayin'
I have no point to this , just sayin'
Sorry,just sayin'

jeez, calm down, I was just sayin...

cHaTbOx

xOxSinéadxOx wrote: »

jeez, calm down, I was just sayin...

;)I know

hussey

amacachi wrote: »

I agree with the OP, this is by far the worst thing the Nazis did.

xOxSinéadxOx wrote: »

holocaust? just sayin...

galwayrush

Next thing, inverting a pentagram will be deemed evil.:eek:

biko

The Finnish air force use a swastika

http://reclaimtheswastika.com/

Jesus Wept

The Nazis, a great bunch of lads.

Rabies

They created a very personal form of baking and smoking food.

My name is URL

They also ruined the goose-step.

I can no longer do it when walking around town without getting crooked looks

Burkatron

Can't believe I remember this. Crispin Mills from Kula Shaker (remember them?) caused "national outrage" on this topic 12 years back, gas!:

Taken from their wiki page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kula_Shaker

Controversy

On Sunday 20 April 1997, the national UK newspaper The Independent ran a front page article in which it claimed that Crispian Mills "had dabbled with Nazism and its most potent symbol, the swastika."[2] The article drew together various comments Mills had made to the UK music press in 1996 and early 1997. In one of the interviews from March 1997 for the NME (New Musical Express) the following was printed:

Crispian: (in reference to his vegetarian beliefs that killing animals is just as bad as killing humans) The principle is we've got a violent society, we always go on about the virtues of peace but we aren't living a peaceful lifestyle
New Musical Express: It's an obvious comparison, but Hitler was a vegetarian who had no qualms about murdering humans, babies included, by the thousands.
Crispian: Right, but Hitler knew a lot more than he made out. Hitler and his whole gang weren't just a bunch of f___ing psychos, they were also into magic and all that. I mean, talking about ruffling feathers with statements in magazines, I love the swastika. It's a brilliant image, it symbolises peace and the sun and illumination - it's everywhere in India. I'd love to have great big flaming swastikas onstage just for the f__k of it. It's like, that was Hitler, don't let him steal something like that from you. I mean the Nazis studied the Vedas, the Scriptures, the Holy Grail, but they were just using it as a power trip.
New Musical Express: You have a sneaking admiration for Hitler don't you?
Crispian: No...but it's a shame the baddies always get the good uniforms. Ha ha!.[3]

The other statements quoted in the article were "You can see why Hitler got support. It was probably the uniforms that swung it," said in an interview with NME in November 1996, and "Well, we know that democracy doesn't work. If we had a non-elected body that set the right standards . . ." from a January 1997 edition of Melody Maker [4]. The article also revealed that the Objects of Desire had used the motto "England will rise again" [5], and had performed at a 1993 conference at Wembley called "Global Deception" at which speakers included renowned conspiracy theorists Eustace Mullins (who has been denounced as an antisemite because of his writings, which he later recanted) and William Cooper. William Cooper was also thanked in the credits of Kula Shaker's album.[6]
Mills responded to the allegations by fax and his responses were incorporated in the article. Mills admitted having played at "Global Deception", but claimed not to have fully understood the nature of the event. He indicated that he now felt that the swastika, which has origins outside Nazism and different meanings in different parts of the world, was hopelessly connected to Nazism in the West. He indicated that it was the outrage that his comments had sparked that had lead him to this conclusion. He also offered an unequivocal condemnation of right-wing ideology.
"I think there is no better example of my naivete and insensitivity than the swastika comments . . . my comments derive from my long interest in Indian culture, from which the swastika has its origins . . . I apologise to those who have been offended by my comment and humbly ask that they accept that I am completely against the Nazis, their crimes and any other latter-day form of totalitarianism. For the record I have never been an anti-semite especially as my dear grandmother was Jewish . . . I loathe totalitarianism, far right thinking, oppression of all forms, denial of human rights and all things that would limit the free spirit of humankind. I stand for peace, love, generosity and learning."[7] [8]

Biggins

http://italy.indymedia.org/uploads/2005/07/scientology.jpg
http://german.volunteerministers.org/img/Scientology-vm.jpg


...well if the Scientology wacko's can steal the crucifixion and use it as part of their symbolism (even though the character of Jesus I'm told was not an alien despite what Xenu might rant about), stealing symbols is nothing new and still goes on.

Be it the Nazi's of the past ot the wacko's of the future, its just another indicator of weak philosophies/agendas that is unable to stand up on its own merits and needs subsequently to steal from other areas to falsify a legitimacy and foundation.

Only the stupid, ignorantly blind and/or 'sheep' of populations will fall and follow such crap.

barleybooley

The-Rigger wrote: »

The Nazis, a great bunch of lads.

I love that episode of Father Ted

Isn't it supposed to be one of the world's oldest and most enigmatic symbols? It's been found all over the world allegedly and isn't linked in particular to any culture. The Nazi's took it as a symbol of rebirth. My aunt-in-law showed us pictures from her Grandmother's funeral, she's from Singapore, and the body was covered with a swastika sheet because of the whole reincarnation thing.

Mr.Lizard

Thirdfox wrote: »

I happen to like its symbolic meaning (love, mercy or strength, intelligence - depending on which way the circle is turning). And coming from an Asian background I see plenty of Buddhist temples, monks etc. wearing/displaying the swastika proudly... but over here it's been (irreparably?) tainted by the Nazis - I recall one lady on the radio talking about how "shocked!" she was to see an Asian designed bag had swastikas on it...

Similar to KKK hoods and their legitimate religious use in Spanish ceremonies... is anyone else fed up with people misinterpreting symbols? One of my Buddhist charms has a swastika (the left facing version and not the Nazi right facing one) but I'd still feel uncomfortable letting people see it here.

We took the tricolour off the 'RA - can't we take back our other symbols too? Is there some way to separate these symbols with some of their history (at least in the Western world - over in Asia swastikas are fine - unless you actualy have the Nazi symbol).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#Etymology_and_alternative_names

I hear what you say. I like a drink but I hate what the Irish have done to the image of drinking.

echter

the nazis had great style, for such disgusting people.

It's no coinky-dink they picked such a potent symbol - I know i'd wear it if there wasn't such a stigma.

brianthebard

Thirdfox wrote: »

Since this is AH I'll take it you're mocking me - I think the genocide of the Jews is ranked somewhat higher than debasing a holy symbol (and in many cases not holy but a basic symbol that humans have used throughout ancient times). But I still think I raise a legitimate question - in that can "tainted" symbols be washed clean? I gave the example of Irish pride in seeing our tri-colour again... care to give your views?

What is this taking back you are referring to? When was the tri colour more related to the IRA than the Irish state? Also considering the inclusion of orange in the tri colour it would appear fairly anathema to the IRA's long term goals...

Paddy Samurai

This must have really confused the Japanese,when they invaded china.


In 1922, the Chinese Syncretist movement Daoyuan founded the philanthropic association Red Swastika Society in imitation of the Red Cross. The association was very active in China during the 1920s and the 1930s.One can see swastika on Pillars of Ashoka where swastika is a symbol of cosmic dance around a fixed center and guards against evil .REF:WIKIPEDIA

galwayrush

The-Rigger wrote: »

The Nazis, a great bunch of lads.

That's a gas thing to say.:D

Mr.Lizard

galwayrush wrote: »

That's a gas thing to say.:D

Zyklon Believe you just said that?!

Thirdfox

brianthebard wrote: »

What is this taking back you are referring to? When was the tri colour more related to the IRA than the Irish state? Also considering the inclusion of orange in the tri colour it would appear fairly anathema to the IRA's long term goals...

Just like until the last world cup many Germans did not feel comfortable with with displaying their national flag at matches, I have been told by Irish history teachers that the tri-colour was a very nationalistic IRA symbol - that until the Italia '90 world cup, wasn't a regular sight at Irish competitions. Of course, that may well be a grandiose portrayal of the power of football - but this is what I've been told anyway.

pablomakaveli

I know ive heard of British soldiers in WWI having swastikas imprinted on whiskey flasks and cigarette holders for luck. Kind of ironic that it became the symbol of their enemy in WWII.

I can't really see the swastika regaining it's former status for a long time. There's too much stigma attached to it now.

Riddle101

Yeah I know what you mean OP, you can't even burn a cross anymore without someone getting up you're bum about it.

Seriously though I hate the fact that people are ignorant about stuff like that, it is a religous symbol and people need to respect that. I wonder how Germany feels about Buddism?

Latchy

The Romans used the Swastika as a symbol .

A Dublin laundry company called Swastika based out in Ballsbridge ,also used the name, with the symbol as a logo on the side of it's vans .

Thirdfox

Riddle101 wrote: »

Yeah I know what you mean OP, you can't even burn a cross anymore without someone getting up you're bum about it.

Seriously though I hate the fact that people are ignorant about stuff like that, it is a religous symbol and people need to respect that. I wonder how Germany feels about Buddism?

I've actually contacted my German law friend and this is what he found (in regards to religious uses of the swastika in Germany):

§ 86 a StGB. So, here's the deal:

It is forbidden to use symbols of unconstitutional organisations. The Nazi Swastika is by definition one of these symbols. Hence, of course and like you said, the Nazi Swastika is forbidden.

In addition, the Code says that it is forbidden to use symbols that are so similar that an objective observer might find them to be a symbol of an unconstitutional organisation. It has been decided that this was the case for deformed, split and even crossed out swastikas. So if people were wearing a button with a crossed out swastika they would be punishable under 86 a StGB. However, this particular decision has been reversed by the highest criminal court. Nevertheless, you can see that using a swastika in whatever way, shape or form can get you into trouble really fast. There has been an investigation against a clothings company because their clothes racks looked similar to swastikas.
I did not find a decision concerning symbols that are used for religious purposes. However, applying the standard of an "objective observer who might find the symbol to be of an unconstitutional organisation" I am quite sure that those signs are covered and may not be used in Germany. This makes sense to me since otherwise Neonazis would use those symbols at their demonstrations. I think the legislator thought of that case and excluded it.

---

So it may appear that Buddhist/Hindu etc. temples probably can't make use of those symbols in Germany.

...I suppose it doesn't help that Buddhist monks shave their heads too (or conversely for the Neo-Nazis, what a delightful coincidence :mad: )

bigeasyeah

Well you do realise that regardless of the previous meaning it will always be associated with the Third Reich.The effects of World War II are still being felt and seen today.

Latchy

It may have being around since the time of the Eygytians but it will always be associated with the Nazis yes .