New Rules - Who's For and Against

li@mo

I saw in todays Irish Independent the following counties status. Can people update if they know any others and how they will vote. Thanks

Leitrim - For
Roscommon - For
Limerick - For
Offaly - Against
Fermanagh - Pending dicussion with players
Dublin - Pending Congress Debate

ccosgrave

From HoganStand.com:

For:
Cork
Meath
Down
Dublin
Mayo
Sligo
Kildare
Longford
Wexford

Against:

Tyrone
Monaghan
Donegal

Undecided:

Kerry
Kilkenny
Tipperary

http://www.hoganstand.com/Wexford/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=109818

Daysha

For:
Cork

:eek: The CCB voting for change?! Surely thats a misprint.

Pride Fighter

Personally I am in favour of some of the football ones but to it seems hurling sot tarred with the same brush as football in terms of cynical fouling. It does not go on as much in hurling.

ccosgrave

I heard on Newstalk yesterday evening that the rule changes are going to be dropped due to the lack of a 2/3 majority. Anyone know where they got that from and if it's actually the case?

sam34

it was on rte news last night, the new rules are gone

pickarooney

What were the new rules, as a matter of interest?

Daysha

pickarooney wrote: »

What were the new rules, as a matter of interest?

Basically they redefined what merits a ticking and what merits a yellow card for the majority of the rules, while a yellow card meant the player had to be substituted for the remainder of the game.

keane2097

Daysha wrote: »

Basically they redefined what merits a ticking and what merits a yellow card for the majority of the rules, while a yellow card meant the player had to be substituted for the remainder of the game.

I would advocate trying a slight variant, with a yellow card meaning a player has to be replaced for 10 - 15 minutes rather than for the duration...

Still, it's all entirely pointless unless they're willing to try it in the championship. It's infuriating that they consistently cop out like that tbh.

Daysha

keane2097 wrote: »

I would advocate trying a slight variant, with a yellow card meaning a player has to be replaced for 10 - 15 minutes rather than for the duration...

Still, it's all entirely pointless unless they're willing to try it in the championship. It's infuriating that they consistently cop out like that tbh.

What I don't understand is that when they experimented with a sin bin a few years ago, it was rejected on the grounds that it would have to be implemented across the board at all levels....yet fast forward 5 years they were perfectly happy to introduce these rules for just the senior hurlers

I certainly think a re-examination of a sin bin would be worthwhile.

Daysha

And while I'm at it, like you said, I don't like the idea of solely using the leagues as a testing ground for new rules.

How are they meant to expect players and fans to be 100% behind the NHL and NFL if the GAA use it as their own little play-thing to try out new rules and systems?

keane2097

Daysha wrote: »

And while I'm at it, like you said, I don't like the idea of solely using the leagues as a testing ground for new rules.

How are they meant to expect players and fans to be 100% behind the NHL and NFL if the GAA use it as their own little play-thing to try out new rules and systems?

I think we need a smaller body capable of forcing these things through for the good of the game.

The GAA is one organization where the traditionalist vote is ridiculously strong and a two-thirds majority in a vote on an issue like this is never going to be achieved.

A smaller body of qualified, respected, forward-minded people should be given the power to introduce these measures on a trial basis in the only arena that matters - the AI Championship.

At that point, fine, allow the congress to vote on it, but at least give the thing a chance to worj before dismissing it.

Also, it's patently clear that hurling and football should be governed by separate bodies in every sense.

ccosgrave

What exactly was the problem with the sin bin back then? Why didn't it work? I think a sin-bin being somewhere between a yellow card and a red card would be worth another look.

I'm glad the new rule changes were scrapped anyway, particularly for hurling. I think that the rules should be looked at again for next season, though, I'm not against a bit of experimentation here. In the long-term, I think we'll be better off for it.

That said, what I'd really like to see is a more rugby-style attitude from players towards referees. It might not help the cynical fouling too much, but it would definitely a step in the right direction.

keane2097

ccosgrave wrote: »

What exactly was the problem with the sin bin back then? Why didn't it work? I think a sin-bin being somewhere between a yellow card and a red card would be worth another look.

I *think* the problem was that the introduction of the sin bin didn't coincide with the rethink of what merits a yellow card offense that we've had this year.

This, unfortunately, led to huge number of players being sin binned for relatively minor offences early on, and later to players getting away with murder because the refs were trying to avoid teams ending up with 12 men each.

It would definitely be worth revisiting in light of the changes made to the yellow card offences, although I'm leaning towards this years attempt as a better alternative in football at least.

ccosgrave wrote: »

I'm glad the new rule changes were scrapped anyway, particularly for hurling. I think that the rules should be looked at again for next season, though, I'm not against a bit of experimentation here. In the long-term, I think we'll be better off for it.

I thought they were quite good in football then and am unhappy they've been scrapped. Just goes to show the fatuousness of using the same rules in both codes.

ccosgrave wrote: »

That said, what I'd really like to see is a more rugby-style attitude from players towards referees. It might not help the cynical fouling too much, but it would definitely a step in the right direction.

Undoubtedly. Players need to be penalised heavily for protesting with the referee, by having free kicks overturned, opposing teams' kicks brought to more scoreable positions, yellow cards, red cards - the whole nine yards. Essentially, anything it takes to stamp out that behavior.

Native Hawk

What exactly was the wording of what the delagates were voting on? I know that a vote was taken in our club in the past few weeks for the rules to be implemented in club football.

premierstone

keane2097 wrote: »

I thought they were quite good in football then and am unhappy they've been scrapped. Just goes to show the fatuousness of using the same rules in both codes.

+1 this imo is the crux of the problem and there should at the very least have been a seperate vote for each code

ccosgrave

keane2097 wrote: »

I *think* the problem was that the introduction of the sin bin didn't coincide with the rethink of what merits a yellow card offense that we've had this year.

This, unfortunately, led to huge number of players being sin binned for relatively minor offences early on, and later to players getting away with murder because the refs were trying to avoid teams ending up with 12 men each.

Wait, so how exactly did the sin-bin work, then? Was it not similar to how it's done in rugby - a particularly bad foul resulting in a player spending ten minutes on the sidelines? From what you said, I'm guessing it wasn't, so why couldn't the GAA try something like that?

keane2097 wrote: »

I thought they were quite good in football then and am unhappy they've been scrapped. Just goes to show the fatuousness of using the same rules in both codes.

Absolutely. I honestly don't think hurling has much of a problem at all with regard to discipline, and so the rules just weren't needed at all.

keane2097 wrote: »

Undoubtedly. Players need to be penalised heavily for protesting with the referee, by having free kicks overturned, opposing teams' kicks brought to more scoreable positions, yellow cards, red cards - the whole nine yards. Essentially, anything it takes to stamp out that behavior.

Unfortunately, it's not just amongst the players that this type of attitude exists - it permeates almost the entirety of the GAA. If you attend a rugby match, you will hear very few people calling for the referee's head to the same extent that you hear it in GAA. In that regard, I really don't know how exactly the organisation would go about fixing this problem. However, I do feel that if the change were to be initiated by the players on the field then, it'd eventually hit the stands too. The underage structure can also be altered to deal with this - trying to have coaches impress upon the players from a young age to respect the referee and to trust his decision.

Of course, one could say that once the standard of refereeing improves, then maybe the respect of the crowd will follow. I personally feel it ought to be the other way around.

Without bringing in a completely different debate here, I honestly feel that this is the one place in which the GAA would benefit enormously were professionalism introduced.

yahoo_moe

premierstone wrote: »

+1 this imo is the crux of the problem and there should at the very least have been a seperate vote for each code

Agreed - this "tripping with the hand or hurl" stuff can make the changes seem more complicated than they really were. I would have enjoyed a football championship with the new rules in place especially, even on a continued experimental basis.

keane2097

ccosgrave wrote: »

Wait, so how exactly did the sin-bin work, then? Was it not similar to how it's done in rugby - a particularly bad foul resulting in a player spending ten minutes on the sidelines? From what you said, I'm guessing it wasn't, so why couldn't the GAA try something like that?

No this was pretty much the system we had, except that there was no real thought put into what exactly constituted a "yellow card offence". Essentially this led to people being sin-binned for all sorts of fouls, some very innocuous, leading refs to then leave players off for much worse offences later on to avoid having ridiculous amounts of players sidelined.

If the system was tried now, with more thought having been put into the classification of a foul as a yellow card offence, it would no doubt work better.