The appeal of god(s)

fitz0

It came to my attention recently that one of my friends considers me a "half-arsed atheist"* and that I still find the concept of god(his one not the thousands of other ones) appealing.
*Technically its "half-arsed agnostic" but I find atheist a more convenient label.

Well, it's true. I do find the concept of an all-powerful being watching over me constantly, forgiving everything I do, taking a special interest in me to be very appealing. I find the prospect of the universe being tailored to suit me pleasing in a selfish way. I would like to think that there is some divine plan for humanity.

But, and there's always a but, I don't think for one second that such a thing is true, I harbour no feelings that I am the centre of the universe, I find the prospect of eternal life terrifying and all in all I think the whole notion is ludicrous, even if its a handy crutch for some. I'm content to know that the universe is unimaginably bigger than this planet, and that I'm lucky that such a complex chain of events and coincidences led to me being here. I'd rather not have to invent an omnipotent ghosts to explain that.

My question is do others on this site see the attractiveness of the concept of god(s)? Does it still appeal to you?

coffee_cake

yeah, it's lovely to think that there's some omnipotent being looking out for you, with a definite defined moral standard so you can trust there's always a clear line of right/wrong instead of the real world's shades of grey.
And to satisfy the inner bitterness against people who do badly against you where you can't retaliate that you can rest smugly thinking "they'll get their comeuppance" (read: I'll get my lynchmob tendencies fulfilled)
And being told what to do and never having to question it or deal with the uncertainty of living your own life!
yep
lovely

cls

fitz0 wrote: »

It came to my attention recently that one of my friends considers me a "half-arsed atheist"* and that I still find the concept of god(his one not the thousands of other ones) appealing.
*Technically its "half-arsed agnostic" but I find atheist a more convenient label.

Well, it's true. I do find the concept of an all-powerful being watching over me constantly, forgiving everything I do, taking a special interest in me to be very appealing. I find the prospect of the universe being tailored to suit me pleasing in a selfish way. I would like to think that there is some divine plan for humanity.

But, and there's always a but, I don't think for one second that such a thing is true, I harbour no feelings that I am the centre of the universe, I find the prospect of eternal life terrifying and all in all I think the whole notion is ludicrous, even if its a handy crutch for some. I'm content to know that the universe is unimaginably bigger than this planet, and that I'm lucky that such a complex chain of events and coincidences led to me being here. I'd rather not have to invent an omnipotent ghosts to explain that.

My question is do others on this site see the attractiveness of the concept of god(s)? Does it still appeal to you?

So you're scared of death is basically what you're saying. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't too, but I'm still an athiest. The only comfort I can take is that we are all going to die and no matter what you have done or what you believe in the same thing will happen to all of us. I don't need a God, I simply just try not to think about it because there really is no point. Live life to the full, worry about dying when it happens. Although at that point it will be a welcoming relief from pain.

Benhonan

Wow, thanks for that wonderful endorsement of your life view there.

The things which always appealed to me most about religion were souls and angels. I've been a fairly hardcore atheist for as long as I can remember, but I always liked the idea of these beings of pure spirit just floating around doing good for people. I suppose they featured strongly in the Philip Pullman trilogy, which is clearly a strongly atheist series, so I'm not the only one. Also the idea of having a soul is lovely, being more than a big lump of water and calcium plodding around acting based on instinct and learned behaviour.

Still though who are we kidding like?

Overblood

fitz0 wrote: »

I do find the concept of an all-powerful being watching over me constantly, forgiving everything I do, taking a special interest in me to be very appealing.

Why oh why oh WHY?!!!

Why would you want to live in the shadow of a "Celestial Dictator" or "Thought Police" as Hitchens puts it.

Why would you want your every move watched? Every thought scrutinized? Every sexual desire frowned upon?

Why would you want your life planned out before you're even born? Especially by an evil entity such as the one we all know as... GOD.

Is the concept of privacy not appealing to you at all? Are you not strong enough as a person to cast aside the need for a "comfort blanky"?

By John Hunphreys:

I suspect that on the most primitive level it is not all that different from the little scrap of blanket that so many small children rely on. They need it whenever they get tired or life looks a bit threatening.

I invite you to imagine the impossibly grand figure of the Archbishop of Canterbury sitting on the steps of his cathedral with his thumb stuck in his mouth, stroking his bearded cheek with the little bit of satin at the edge of his comfort blanket.

This image may not do a great deal for the dignity of the primate's office, but the comfort blanket is not a million miles away from what religion offers at its most simplistic.

Overblood

Benhonan wrote: »

Also the idea of having a soul is lovely, being more than a big lump of water and calcium plodding around acting based on instinct and learned behaviour.

I find the latter more amazing and awe inspiring to be honest!

Galvasean

There is something comforting about the notion that you'll be reunited with Granpa Zeek when you die.

robindch

fitz0 wrote: »

My question is do others on this site see the attractiveness of the concept of god(s)? Does it still appeal to you?

Depends on which gods you're referring to.

The Greek and Roman gods sound like fun and don't seem much more than overpowered humans with their various appetites to match. The Norse gods sound ok too from what little I know of them.

The jewish, christian and islamic deities though are far more problematic. While people who've acquired these religions claim that these gods are more concerned about love than anything else, the reported actions of the various deities demonstrate exactly the opposite. They seem unstable, conceited, vindictive, vengeful, and frankly, pretty psychotic individuals. Not sure that I'd really like to have much to do with them at all.

Overblood

So who here would class themselves as an anti-theist?

fitz0

cls wrote: »

So you're scared of death is basically what you're saying. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't too, but I'm still an athiest. The only comfort I can take is that we are all going to die and no matter what you have done or what you believe in the same thing will happen to all of us. I don't need a God, I simply just try not to think about it because there really is no point. Live life to the full, worry about dying when it happens. Although at that point it will be a welcoming relief from pain.

I wouldn't say I'm scared of death. At the same time I very much want to keep on living. I suppose its one and the same though.

Overblood wrote: »

Why oh why oh WHY?!!!

Why would you want to live in the shadow of a "Celestial Dictator" or "Thought Police" as Hitchens puts it.

Why would you want your every move watched? Every thought scrutinized? Every sexual desire frowned upon?

Why would you want your life planned out before you're even born? Especially by an evil entity such as the one we all know as... GOD.

Is the concept of privacy not appealing to you at all?

I only mentioned the things I would find comforting. All the other stuff is part of the reason I can't bring myself to believe in any god. Why would I find the stuff you mentioned comforting? Are you intentionally misinterpreting my post?

Overblood wrote: »

Are you not strong enough as a person to cast aside the need for a "comfort blanky"?

Don't be so condescending and read my post again. I quite clearly stated that I don't believe any of it. Is that not enough to convince you I've thrown away this particular "comfort blanky"?

robindch wrote: »

Depends on which gods you're referring to.

I only threw the (s) in there for fairness sake:p Wouldn't want anyone claiming I'm ignoring their god. Although I am talking about the Christian god in my case.

Black Swan

The only gods I've ever seen in my short life are those that stand before us on two feet behind a pulpit and try to act like one.

Caoimhín

Living forever with your own personal friend the "creator of the universe" 6 days of course, but even he got tired.

Why the hell not? Beats believing you are Napoleon every day.

Overblood

Overblood wrote: »

Why oh why oh WHY?!!!

Why would you want to live in the shadow of a "Celestial Dictator" or "Thought Police" as Hitchens puts it.

Why would you want your every move watched? Every thought scrutinized?

fitz0 wrote: »

I only mentioned the things I would find comforting.

You mentioned:

I do find the concept of an all-powerful being watching over me constantly, forgiving everything I do, taking a special interest in me to be very appealing.

Do you not think that would be a bit disturbing?

Don't be so condescending

I apologize!

Galvasean

robindch wrote: »

.

The Greek and Roman gods sound like fun

You say taht now. Just wait 'til Zeus is disguising himself as a cow and banging your wife.

Zombrex

fitz0 wrote: »

Does it still appeal to you?

Glib answer - Yes, that is the point.

Serious answer, not the Christian god, though some aspects of him do appeal (the after life for example). Other gods are more appealing. But then you get into this silly game were a person simply shapes their personal idea of god to be what appeals to them, and it is hardly surprising that it does

Overblood

Galvasean wrote: »

You say that now. Just wait 'til Zeus is disguising himself as a cow and banging your wife.

Is Zeus from Longford by any chance?

fitz0

Overblood wrote: »

Do you not think that would be a bit disturbing?

In a way yes, but it would still be nice to feel like no matter what you did that there would be somebody or something that won't hate you for it. When considering the idea of a god from a purely emotional perspective I doubt many people look at the negative or even too deep into the positive.

Wicknight wrote: »

Glib answer - Yes, that is the point.

Serious answer, not the Christian god, though some aspects of him do appeal (the after life for example). Other gods are more appealing. But then you get into this silly game were a person simply shapes their personal idea of god to be what appeals to them, and it is hardly surprising that it does

People tend to gloss over the things they don't like in everything. Since the Christian god is usually the only god people in this country are told about I'd imagine every believer has such a different image that they all believe in a different god except under the one label. I just wanted to know whether still finding the idea of a god appealing is common or not.

pH

Galvasean wrote: »

You say taht now. Just wait 'til Zeus is disguising himself as a cow and banging your wife.

Not that I necessarily disagree with robin, but it does take a particularly unpleasant vision of God to make the Greek and Roman ones "fun" by comparison.

Zombrex

fitz0 wrote: »

People tend to gloss over the things they don't like in everything. Since the Christian god is usually the only god people in this country are told about I'd imagine every believer has such a different image that they all believe in a different god except under the one label. I just wanted to know whether still finding the idea of a god appealing is common or not.

What it ultimately comes down to is that people find the idea that they have control over the things they can't actually control, appealing. That is the appeal of gods and other supernatural beings, they allow us to feel that the universe is not outside of our control. It is not a coincidence that the vast majority of religions incorporate the followers having to do something to win favour of their gods (Christians must accept Jesus Christ as their personal saviour and they will be saved). This puts the ball back into our court so to speak, makes us thing that we can control these things that seem out of our control.

This is the appeal. There have been various studies done recently that explore why we feel like this and it has been shown that this thinking is some what related to an evolutionary defence mechanism that is triggered in the brain when we feel out of control. We begin to arrange the world around us in patterns that actually don't exist and we start seeing significance in things that hold none.

We appear to do this to appease our brain which has evolved to seek out structure and order as a way of processing the world. We really don't like chaos, our brains are not designed to process chaos. So we structure chaos in ways that are structured and familiar, and this mostly includes patterns of human behaviour that we imprint on the natural world, for example in the form of gods who control things based on known human behaviour patterns.

This allows us to view the natural chaos of the world around us in familiar terms and this is very appealing to our brains. Which is probably why we all have a strong instinct to do this.

robindch

pH wrote: »

it does take a particularly unpleasant vision of God to make the Greek and Roman ones "fun" by comparison.

Well, going on the tales in the bible and believers' posts, the wine-swilling, thigh-slapping Greek and Roman gods unfortunately do look quite calm and rational when compared to the idea of a sexless, omnipotent, omniscient god who strikes a deal with himself to kill himself as an offering to himself to resolve an earlier error of his, which would otherwise compel him to turn all his little creations into kindling for the eternal fires of hell.

Húrin

bluewolf wrote: »

And to satisfy the inner bitterness against people who do badly against you where you can't retaliate that you can rest smugly thinking "they'll get their comeuppance" (read: I'll get my lynchmob tendencies fulfilled)

This really is one of the most self-righteous posts I have ever read here. Are you claiming to be so pure that you never feel any desire to retaliate against those who hurt you?

Wicknight wrote: »

What it ultimately comes down to is that people find the idea that they have control over the things they can't actually control, appealing. That is the appeal of gods and other supernatural beings, they allow us to feel that the universe is not outside of our control. It is not a coincidence that the vast majority of religions incorporate the followers having to do something to win favour of their gods (Christians must accept Jesus Christ as their personal saviour and they will be saved).

Speaking for Christianity, it is false to say that it promises control over the universe. That is why there is advice in the Bible about dealing with things that go wrong for you and so on. The only control Christ offers over that which we could not otherwise control is our fate after death.

The ideology which proclaims humans to be the masters of their own destiny, bound to use scientific knowledge to shape the world in the service of our own health, will-to-truth and proliferation is not Christianity but humanism.

vinchick

I always like the ol Greek/Roman/Celtic Gods.

It made more sense to me than just one God. I mean how can 1 God do everthing???

However if you have more than one each with a dedicated job you can go to the department that you have a problem with and get it sorted. Hey Ceres give me a good crop etc, like a big public service (that may or may not be run better than our ones down here on earth)

I know in Christianity you have the saints but they were just people and probably died horribly, no way near as fun as the classic gods and godesses!

That and of one of them took and fancy to you, you may get lucky.....and be catapulted in myth and legend!

That and there are godesses which I feel is important. Christianity gave me no female role models, except a pure sin free virgin.....not at all hard to live up to (??!!). There was Mary M but you wouldnt trust that with the smear campaign that has been raging for centuaries.