The Revenue can bug you...

kmick

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0417/1224244903756.html

As part of the new proposed legislation to combat gangs the Revenue will be able to bug your home for up to 3 months. Which means you can be video and audio surveiled for suspected non-payment of taxes. Seems a bit harsh to me.

Carlow52

kmick wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0417/1224244903756.html

As part of the new proposed legislation to combat gangs the Revenue will be able to bug your home for up to 3 months. Which means you can be video and audio surveiled for suspected non-payment of taxes. Seems a bit harsh to me.

The Revenue already have powers to get a court order to enter a premises, including private houses, if they think tax evasion is being planned.

This new option is being implemented so as to allow the offices of tax advisors and accountants lawyers, estate agents etc to be bugged, ostensibly for money laundering but the real thrust is to catch tax planning at source.

The current problem is that schemes such as the one Gerry McCaughey availed of come to the Revenues attention after the event: now they want to be able to attack them before they are availed of.

oscarBravo

Carlow52 wrote: »

This new option is being implemented so as to allow the offices of tax advisors and accountants lawyers, estate agents etc to be bugged, ostensibly for money laundering but the real thrust is to catch tax planning at source.

The current problem is that schemes such as the one Gerry McCaughey availed of come to the Revenues attention after the event: now they want to be able to attack them before they are availed of.

You're seriously suggesting that a court will give Revenue permission to bug a tax advisor's premises so they can find out what legal loopholes are being taken advantage of?

John_Mc

I pay my taxes so this wont affect me. Anything that catches the scumbags who evade taxes is a good thing imo

MoominPapa

kmick wrote: »

Seems a bit harsh to me.

Why? They will require a court order and it will have time limits, the evidence when used will be in open court. Can't see a problem

Carlow52

oscarBravo wrote: »

You're seriously suggesting that a court will give Revenue permission to bug a tax advisor's premises so they can find out what legal loopholes are being taken advantage of?

Yes because the legislation that is there already clearly states that they DO NOT have to give a reason to enter your premises

oscarBravo

Carlow52 wrote: »

Yes because the legislation that is there already clearly states that they DO NOT have to give a reason to enter your premises

Does it state that they don't have to give the court a reason?

kmick

Revenue have very strong powers already. Allowing them to bug people is a bridge too far in my opinion. Tax evasion/avoidance is not a crime that merits it. Gang crime fair enough. If the argument is that they will be able to jail gang members for tax evasion a la Al Capone its a bit of a stretch of the imagination. They cant even convict them for shooting people in the street and there are very well paid people all over the country who fight and mostly win cases against the Revenue in cases of tax evasion. These cases tend to run on for years and generally do not result in custodial sentences. It would be a very pyrric victory for the general public. The CAB seems a much better option here. So with that line of thinking this legislation seems to be aimed at tax evaders rather than gangs. If that is the case then it looks like a piggyback maneouvre on the governments part. "Punish the gangs" and by the way pay your taxes joe public.

hk

Revenue are part of CAB, CAB as an organisation has a few agencies who are involved in differnt parts of investigations, as such revenue officers working for CAB require similar powers. Revenue/customs also have a role to play in combatting narcotics and the collection of narcotics intelligence and can often initially conduct investigations independant of the Guardi. Similarly the Defence Forces have been granted powers under this act, presumably for similar purposes. I strongly doubt that this leglislation is aimed at tackeling tax offenders, but if it does so much the better in my opinion, tax evasion screws us all who do pay, remember we pay more when others arnt paying at all.

kmick

hk wrote: »

Revenue are part of CAB, CAB as an organisation has a few agencies who are involved in differnt parts of investigations, as such revenue officers working for CAB require similar powers. Revenue/customs also have a role to play in combatting narcotics and the collection of narcotics intelligence and can often initially conduct investigations independant of the Guardi. Similarly the Defence Forces have been granted powers under this act, presumably for similar purposes. I strongly doubt that this leglislation is aimed at tackeling tax offenders, but if it does so much the better in my opinion, tax evasion screws us all who do pay, remember we pay more when others arnt paying at all.

Most people pay their taxes as most people are PAYE. Many self employed try to mimise their taxes through legal means of doing so. A very small percentage of people try and cheat their taxes directly. Eventually they usually get caught because it is not easy to launder money and therefore most people have vast amounts of cash under a matress which can only be used for conspicous consumption.

It is too simplistic just to say this benefits us all. The cost is too high. Revenue are powerful enough. This is a step too far.

MoominPapa

kmick wrote: »

They cant even convict them for shooting people in the street and there are very well paid people all over the country who fight and mostly win cases against the Revenue in cases of tax evasion.

kmick wrote: »

A very small percentage of people try and cheat their taxes directly. Eventually they usually get caught because it is not easy to launder money and therefore most people have vast amounts of cash under a matress which can only be used for conspicous consumption.

So which is it?

kmick

MoominPapa wrote: »

So which is it?

Well by their very nature the people who fight the Revenue are people who are very well bankrolled and can afford to tie up the Revenue for years. They tend to be people who try speculative tax avoidance and when the Revenue come after them they either settle or take their chances in court. We are mainly talking CT or IT.

The type of person who hides cash under the bed from their sandwich business or building company eventually tend to get caught as evidenced by the tax defaulters list. That is cash rich business and self assessment.

Its not as black and white as which is it.