100 Years Ago, Were the Jews the Muslims of today.

ckristo2

Ok it's a rather provocative title. Let me explain.
At the turn of the 19th/20th Centuries there were large Jewish communities living in Europe and America. The land where the Jews had once lived was occupied by a foreign power and many Jews in Europe and the U.S. were very political calling for the downfall of capitalism in America and many were involved in direct action politics, assassinations, bombings etc.
I'm still researching this idea but would be interested in any feed-back.

THIS IS A SERIOUS PIECE ABOUT POLITICAL/SOCIAL HISTORY AND NOT ABOUT ISRAEL OR THE SO-CALLED WAR ON TERROR TODAY.

Would the average non Jew in the U.S. or Europe in say 1900 have looked with the same worry and suspicion on a Jewish Anarchist as they do upon say an outspoken political Muslim Cleric today?

Hookey

Short answer; no. Circumstances are completely different, and while many Jews were involved in terrorism or violent direct action a hundred years ago, it wasn't specifically Jewish action; it was generally communist or anarchist.

Zionism didn't really turn into a violent movement until the 30s and not significantly until the 40s. And its worth bearing in mind that Zionism is more nationalist with a religious (but primarily racial/cultural )angle rather than the religiously motivated activity of Islamic fundamentalists.

Serenity Now!

ckristo2 wrote: »

Would the average non Jew in the U.S. or Europe in say 1900 have looked with the same worry and suspicion on a Jewish Anarchist as they do upon say an outspoken political Muslim Cleric today?

No but Jews were treated like second-class citizens, anarchist or not, throughout European history and that includes Ireland.
Prof Dermot Keogh wrote two excellent books on Jews in this country. Firstly 'Jews in Twentieth Century Ireland' and then a more in-depth look at the despicable Limerick Boycott in 1904.

ckristo2

Thanks for the comments.
I'm not really interested in anti-semitism as such, although at the time Jews felt targetted by the police as do many Muslims today.
I'm reading an essay by Paul Knepper "The Other Invisible Hand" about how the press/police/politicians in England blamed Jews for every violent act from Jack the Ripper to the Siege of Sydney st in 1911. Apparently anti-semitism was fuelled by fear as well as bigotry.
The case of Lazarus Averbuch is also interesting. This totally innocent unarmed man was shot five times by a Chicago police chief in 1908 when he called to the policeman's house. George Shippy (the Policeman) more than likely panicked on seeing an intense "Jewish looking man" on his door step at 9am on a Saturday morning. Shades of Jean Charlez Jiminez?
It's more the perception of how Jews and especially political Jews were regarded a hundred years ago that I am interested in.
Keep the comments comin'

brianthebard

The fear you are talking about is just the other face of bigotry, if you are serious about this topic then you can't discount anti-semitism; instead consider the reasons for it.

Serenity Now!

ckristo2 wrote: »

Thanks for the comments.
I'm not really interested in anti-semitism as such, although at the time Jews felt targetted by the police as do many Muslims today

Your question is way too broad. Which muslims? Where? If you're referring to here or even Europe, "Muslims today" have full rights to citizenship, are entitled to an education and allowed to maintain social standing, can hold professions. Also are entitled to free movement across boundaries both national and internal. A non-muslim can convert to Islam without legal recrimination.

This was not the case for Jews one hundred years ago.
If you are running a comparison like this, you cannot omit antisemitism from the equation.

ckristo2

Conditions for Jews varied greatly in the western world 100 years ago. For example the United States had (has) a secular constitution so Jews faced no official discrimination by law but suffered racism socially and many changed their names to sound more Anglo Saxon. European countries varied quite a bit with the British Isles being the same as America in law but privately social bigotry and downright racisism existed. One has to go no further than the novels of Sax Rhomer or even Enid Blyton (and of course the Limerick pogrom of 1904,) Though it should be said this was never as brutal as what went on across the water.
Of the states in Continental Europe where the vast majority of Jews lived 100 years ago, Russia was the worst. There was both official government animosity and widespread racist attacks and murders. Germany on the whole wasn't too bad and Austria Hungary especially Bohemia (modern Czech Republic) welcomed Jews in commerce if not into politics. But there were occasional bouts of anti-semitism especially in what would later on become Poland and the Baltic States.
As I said it's not the purpose of this thread to deal with anti-semitism. I'm more interested in the PERCEIVED attitude people had at the time toward EXTREMIST POLITICAL Jews (Emma Goldman, Johann Most, Trotsky, Rudolf Rocker etc) and how similar is that attitude to modern day extremist political Muslims (Abu Hamza, Yusuf al-Quaradawi) I know that there are obvious differences between the Anarcho-Syndicalists of 1900 and the Jihadists of today but it's the general public's perception I'm more interested in.

brianthebard

That's fine and all, but why don't you see that anti-semitism is what feeds into the public perception of those individuals you mentioned? do you think if there wasn't an undercurrent of anti-semitism in western society, people would have been as shocked by their actions? Were there attacks in retaliation against innocent jews out of fear/bigotry, exacerbated by these people? If you're going to ignore anti-semitism then you don't have a topic of social history research.

ckristo2

I guess the starting point for this thread was the assassination of American president Mc Kinley (weirdly in Sept 1901) by an anarchist Leon Czolgosz. Cozolgosz had one Jewish parent and he had been involved with other Jewish activists (Emma Goldman, Alexander Berkman, Johann Most) All Anarcho-Syndicalists. Not all revolutionaries in America at the time were Jews but most of the leadership was.
Ten years later in Russia the prime minister Pyotr Stolypin was assassinated by a Jew Dimitri Bogrov. Again not all the Bolsheviks in Russia were Jews but Jews were highly represented in it's leadership, (Trotsky, Kameniev, Zinoviev, Litvinov)
There were people who hated Jews certainly then as now but the fact that most of the violent revolutionary movements in Europe and the U.S. at the time had many Jews leading them gave such people a reason to fear and hate Jews.
Today in the popular press and I believe society in the West generally (and in the police forces too: witness the recent over the top arrests in the north of England) there is abroad a perception very similar to a hundred years ago that where there is a Muslim (for 1909 read Jew) there is a radical. It takes no more than a few Muslim men to meet in someone's house to discuss Iraq or Gaza for a Special Branch squad car to be sent out.
A hundred years ago a group of Jewish Syndicalists discusing workers rights would find themselves behind bars as fast as the police could get them there.

brianthebard

I think the suggestion that a large percentage of radical organisations had jewish people in the top ranks is a bit ott tbh, have you figures? How many people were in charge of the running of the Bolsheviks for instance?? Hundreds, thousands? Also, why do you think so many Jews were involved in radical movements? Could it perhaps be a result of the discrimination they suffered due to anti-semitism?

Zebra3

OP,

You use very sweeping terms.

When you talk about jews of 100 years ago, some suffered were poverty stricken and suffered discrimination. Others were at the top of the banking world and controlled the financing of states.

ckristo2

I suppose the Jewish communities in Europe and the United States 100 Y.A. were faced with the same dilemma that many Muslims living in the West are faced with today.
To what extent do you celebrate your differences to the communities in which you live.
In America 100 Y.A. most Jews took the path that most Muslims take today.
Shave off the beard (if you're a man) dress like a Westerner, embrace Western culture and even change your name or religion to be more like the primarily European people around you.
This is how most Muslims (and Jews 100 Y.A. adapted to life in the United States) Though it has to be said that the "Radical/Political" Jews in America were not particularly interested in their religion, their main concern was the evils of capitalism and organisating labour unions (and occasionally planting bombs and trying to shoot the C.E.O's of large American Corporations (See Henry Clay Frick's near brush with an assassin's bullet in 1892 and the famous Haymarket bombing in Chicago)
Many European Jews also tried integration but in countries where they were ostracised they turned as you said to radical politics,(BUT NOT BECAUSE OF ANTI-SEMITISM)
Their targets were the Imperial ruling classes and they like their American brethren longed for the day when revolution would sweep away hated mercantile capitalism.
It's important to understand that they didn't make a big deal about being Jewish, they saw no distinction between a Jewish Communist and a Christian Communist (in fact both would have regarded themselves as Atheists)
Today being a Jihadist is of course all about ones' religion (Jihad means defending the faith)
But the point I'm trying to make is that many people 100 Y.A. (apart from C.E.O's and European Emperors) regarded Jews as dangerous radicals, revolutionaries, anarchists and SOME (not all) Some of the Anti-Semitism of the time may have stemmed from this fear of "Terrorism" Just as today many people in the West regard Muslims who are interested in the interventions of the West in the Middle East are in their turn regarded as dangerous.
There is no exact 21st Century anti-Muslim equivalent of the kind of Anti-Semitism around 100 Y.A. (though it does exist in news coverage and popular attitudes toward Muslims. Note the uncritical coverage of the arrests of the 12 men in North of England last week and after they were all released without charge how few papers/TV/radio stations were interested in the misery they were put through.
Do people today feel the same way toward radical political Muslim living in the West as people 100 Y.A. felt about radical political Jews living in the West?

bigeasyeah

No.

Serenity Now!

ckristo2 wrote: »

I suppose the Jewish communities in Europe and the United States 100 Y.A. were faced with the same dilemma that many Muslims living in the West are faced with today.
To what extent do you celebrate your differences to the communities in which you live.
In America 100 Y.A. most Jews took the path that most Muslims take today.
Shave off the beard (if you're a man) dress like a Westerner, embrace Western culture and even change your name or religion to be more like the primarily European people around you.
This is how most Muslims (and Jews 100 Y.A. adapted to life in the United States) Though it has to be said that the "Radical/Political" Jews in America were not particularly interested in their religion, their main concern was the evils of capitalism and organisating labour unions (and occasionally planting bombs and trying to shoot the C.E.O's of large American Corporations (See Henry Clay Frick's near brush with an assassin's bullet in 1892 and the famous Haymarket bombing in Chicago)
Many European Jews also tried integration but in countries where they were ostracised they turned as you said to radical politics,(BUT NOT BECAUSE OF ANTI-SEMITISM)
Their targets were the Imperial ruling classes and they like their American brethren longed for the day when revolution would sweep away hated mercantile capitalism.
It's important to understand that they didn't make a big deal about being Jewish, they saw no distinction between a Jewish Communist and a Christian Communist (in fact both would have regarded themselves as Atheists)
Today being a Jihadist is of course all about ones' religion (Jihad means defending the faith)
But the point I'm trying to make is that many people 100 Y.A. (apart from C.E.O's and European Emperors) regarded Jews as dangerous radicals, revolutionaries, anarchists and SOME (not all) Some of the Anti-Semitism of the time may have stemmed from this fear of "Terrorism" Just as today many people in the West regard Muslims who are interested in the interventions of the West in the Middle East are in their turn regarded as dangerous.
There is no exact 21st Century anti-Muslim equivalent of the kind of Anti-Semitism around 100 Y.A. (though it does exist in news coverage and popular attitudes toward Muslims. Note the uncritical coverage of the arrests of the 12 men in North of England last week and after they were all released without charge how few papers/TV/radio stations were interested in the misery they were put through.
Do people today feel the same way toward radical political Muslim living in the West as people 100 Y.A. felt about radical political Jews living in the West?

First of all, your sweeping generalisation of 'Jews' makes its obvious that you should actually read more about the history of Jews in Europe through the centuries. You seem to have them all down as hasidim (:rolleyes:) and if they're not, its because they shed all traits of outwardly looking so. This is wholly incorrect and misled. The Jewish people have always been as divisive as your own (presumed) religious background on bases of secularism v religious tacets. This is where things differ. The ' jewish activists' you mention did not do so out of religious beliefs.

Secondly, its apparent that you're asking a question that leads to the answers you already have made your mind up on in your own head. There's a glaring reason why so many Jews migrated to the US and mainland Europe as well as other parts of near-Asia.

Muslims in Europe for example tend to face bigotry because of a minority hardcore religious element via violent and sedacious actions tarring them as a threat. Jews faced because they were simply...Jews long before the likes of Trotsky.

baldieman

I think anti semitism may be a consequence of what you are trying to research. there always is a boogy man of some kind, but good luck with your research, you're sticking your neck out here. All things should be questioned, even those that are not politically correct!

ckristo2

Thanks for your support Baldieman.
At the outset I stated quite clearly that Anti-Semitism was not the purpose of this thread but history and how people 100 Y.A. viewed left wing Jewish activists and if there were similarites with how people view political Muslims today.
I would refer to two pieces of research I have discovered on the internet on this subject:
An anarchist site that hosts an article by the American historian James L. Gelvin:
http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=1629
and a lecture by the English sociologist and historian Paul Knepper "The Other invisible Hand, Jews and Anarchists in London before the First World War."
To get into the heads of people 100 Y.A. you need to read their newspapers, listen to the songs they listened to, read the books they read.
I think today we would be shocked even by the words people casually used to describe not only Jews but Asians, Black people, Chinese Irish emigrants! Everybody who wasn't one of them, (depending of course on who "them" was)
That aside because it is not what I want to talk about.
This aside most left wing organisations especially the revolutionary kind in both Europe and the United States 100 Y.A. had many Jews as members or in leadership positions.
(I won't give the list of names again, see my earlier postings) In most cases they were not very religious but the important thing is that the "law abiding people/police forces/politicians and popular press of the countries in which they were actiive tarred all Jews with the same brush as being "Dangerous revolutionaries."
I am asking today do the same "law abiding people/police/etc/etc look upon Muslims in the same way?

leninbenjamin

ckristo2 wrote: »

Thanks for your support Baldieman.
At the outset I stated quite clearly that Anti-Semitism was not the purpose of this thread but history and how people 100 Y.A. viewed left wing Jewish activists and if there were similarites with how people view political Muslims today.

through anti-semitic lenses in a lot of cases.

anti-semtism simply cannot be ignored in research along these lines. it'd be like trying to examine the financial crises while ignoring the role the banks played. the four are just far too intrinsically linked (unfortunately).

ckristo2

1892 a Jewish anarchist Alexander Berkman attempts to shoot the industrial magnate Henry Clay Frick.
1901 a half Jewish political activist Leon Czolgosz assassinates the U.S. president James Mc Kinley
1911 a Jewish revolutionary Dimitri Bogrov shoots dead the Russian prime minister Pytor Stolypin.
1911 a Jewish anarchist known as Peter the Painter (real name Janis Zhaklis) shoots and kills three policemen in London and with several accomplices holds a company of the Scots Guards at bay for several days in the famous Siege of Sydney street.
A series of events that would have shocked people today but a hundred years ago it was like a "9/11" every few years and for those who already looked upon Jews with suspicion and even hatred (and many shamefully did, we're all agreed on that) then these were violent acts committed by an easily identifiable group in society very like people of Middle Eastern origin in the west today.
If the perpetrators had been Chinese or Black no doubt those communities would have been targeted as well.
If a man stabs another man in the London tube it will make the news somewhere but won't lead. However if the killer belonged to an extremist Islamic group and happens to be of say Pakistani origin then it will make headlines probably on the Continent. and in the U.S. as well. It is easy to scapegoat a whole nation/race because of the actions of a few extremists. How the Jews were looked upon in the West 100 Y.A. is very similar to how Muslims especially politically aware Muslims are looked upon today.
as I said earlier there is no 21st century equivalent of the Anti-Semitism extant in Europe/U.S. 100 Y.A. but there is a lower level Anti-Muslim (Anti-Semitic as well if you're going to ethnically accurate) extant today as well (police surveilance, Muslim "Bad guys" in TV thrillers, Sneering cartoons designed to insult Islam etc) So how far have we come in a hundred years, transferred our bigotry from one group to another? The Jewish community in the West is now too powerful to insult and persecute so we go after the Muslims. When will we ever learn.

Serenity Now!

ckristo2 wrote: »

The Jewish community in the West is now too powerful to insult and persecute so we go after the Muslims. When will we ever learn.

*sigh* :rolleyes:
The equivalent of that old Irish favourite, "There's no such thing as a poor protestant"...

As for the rest of your post, as I said you're 'asking a question' without even giving credence to any other contribution but your own.

ckristo2

If say a Danish magazine published a cartoon showing Ann Frank naked having sex with Nazi officers wouldn't the Jewish community be up in arms? And quite rightly, such an image would be degrading and outrageously insulting.
But when a cartoon of Mohamed is published with a bomb in his turban we titter and laugh at the silly protesting Muslims who have no sense of humour.
100 Y.A. we looked upon Jews in the same way as many people in the west look upon the Muslim community today. Outsiders, a bit odd, some of them are downright dangerous, too political by half and why don't they stop dressing in those funny clothes and behave like us.
I welcome all opinions. A number of people have mentioned Anti-Semitism as a subject and while this is worthy of a thread all of it's own what I'm trying to do here is draw comparisons between people's perceptions of Politically active Jews 100 Y.A. and politically active Muslims today.
Jews as I said before did (and do) suffered persecution in the Western World. But it's more underground today and far less prevalent in the west as it was 100 Y.A. At that time it was not illegal to target any ethnic minority or race but there are many laws nowadays and very powerful Israeli lobbies and Jewish lobbies in the West.
But while many groups suffered bigotry in the west 100.Y.A. (Blacks people, Chinese, Asians, all kinds of Immigrants) what set the Jews apart was their involvement in direct action politics. Ditto many Muslims today.

Serenity Now!

ckristo2 wrote: »

what I'm trying to do here is draw comparisons between people's perceptions of Politically active Jews 100 Y.A. and politically active Muslims today

Look at your thread title. You never asked about 'politically active Jews'. You said "Jews". Since Muslims today are not prohibited from entering selected professions, are allowed to avail of infratructural and cultural benefits, are free to practice their religion and are allowed to live wherever they want in Europe, there's a difference. Why? Because of antisemitism.

As for the cartoons in the Danish newspaper, you make it out as if they were part of an orchestrated campaign against Muslims, which they weren't. It was not only hijacked by the anti-Islamic element in Europe but by the hardline Islamic element hence the threats which ensued against the (failed) satirist and anyone who published them.

brianthebard

ckristo2 wrote: »

If say a Danish magazine published a cartoon showing Ann Frank naked having sex with Nazi officers wouldn't the Jewish community be up in arms? And quite rightly, such an image would be degrading and outrageously insulting.
But when a cartoon of Mohamed is published with a bomb in his turban we titter and laugh at the silly protesting Muslims who have no sense of humour.
100 Y.A. we looked upon Jews in the same way as many people in the west look upon the Muslim community today. Outsiders, a bit odd, some of them are downright dangerous, too political by half and why don't they stop dressing in those funny clothes and behave like us.
I welcome all opinions. A number of people have mentioned Anti-Semitism as a subject and while this is worthy of a thread all of it's own what I'm trying to do here is draw comparisons between people's perceptions of Politically active Jews 100 Y.A. and politically active Muslims today.
Jews as I said before did (and do) suffered persecution in the Western World. But it's more underground today and far less prevalent in the west as it was 100 Y.A. At that time it was not illegal to target any ethnic minority or race but there are many laws nowadays and very powerful Israeli lobbies and Jewish lobbies in the West.
But while many groups suffered bigotry in the west 100.Y.A. (Blacks people, Chinese, Asians, all kinds of Immigrants) what set the Jews apart was their involvement in direct action politics. Ditto many Muslims today.

Yes we all see the comparison you're trying to make, its just most of the people posting here feel you are only addressing your own question with the answer you want to hear, aren't taking account of others suggestions and that you are, quite frankly, wrong in your conclusions.

ckristo2

I suppose the difficulty with trying to make comparisons between events in history and events today is that you're very rarely going to get a perfect match.
A deliberatley eyecatching title like the one I've chosen for this thread is to...well deliberately chosen to catch people's eyes. I went on at some length to try to explain what I was asking in my postings and subsequent replies to people's messages for which I am grateful.
All contributions are welcome.
I feel it would be too easy to allow this thread to degenerate into an argy bargy about Anti-Semitism. That would be for the Political section this is the History section.
As I have said before there is no 21st century equivalent to the bigotry and persecution meeted out to people of the Jewish faith 100.Y.A. Of course there isn't.
But I do believe there is a more underground more insidious Anti-Muslim bigotry at work especially against Muslims (living in the west) who protest against the treatments of their brethern in the Middle East by the western military.
I keep repeating my question over and over not in a pig headed way to deny the contributions people have offered to this thread but to try to bring it back to History and away from becoming a discussion on a contemporary political/social issue.
Of course I've made my mind up on this question but if you disagree with me then use historical research to make your point. I'd be very interested to read what you have to say. thanks again.

brianthebard

Political issues can be discussed in a historical context. Likewise economic, social, cultural, etc, etc, etc. What do you think history is exactly? And just to contradict yourself you want to discuss a historical issue but you use a contemporary comparision, then complain when others continue this topic? If you've made your mind up then the only point of this thread has been to try and prove that your opinion is better than everyone elses.

ckristo2

It's always interesting to look at the values and beliefs of people who went before us to see how different they are to our own.
In some cases they don't change much or the emphasis has changed.
Take a fictitious character Hans Mann. He's German. He lives in Frankfurt the year is 1909. Hans is middle class, regards himself as a nationalistic German.
He votes for the Centre Party.
There are 2 million Jews living in Germany but Hans has no Jewish friends. He knows a tailor and a baker but they're ok.
He laughs at the Anti-Semitic Jokes of the music hall comedian but that's ok, it's only fun.
He is worried though. Most of these Jews have families in Russia.
Who would they support if Russia went to war with Germany?
He thinks many of them are Socialists or worst Anarchists. He thinks the police should keep an eye on them.
Fast Forward to 2009. Hans Mann's great grandson is still living in Frankfurt.
There are no more Jews but now there are many Muslims.
Hans is worried, many of them have families in Afghanistan and Iraq, There are German soldiers fighting in those countries. Who do these Muslims in Germany support?
He laughs at their funny clothes and beards but in private. It is not politically correct to do so in public. Hans thinks this is silly.
He has heard that many of them are radicals and want to impose Sharia law in Germany. Some of them were caught trying to plot a suicide bombing last year .
He thinks the police should keep an eye on them.

Serenity Now!

ckristo2 wrote: »

It's always interesting to look at the values and beliefs of people who went before us to see how different they are to our own.
In some cases they don't change much or the emphasis has changed.
Take a fictitious character Hans Mann. He's German. He lives in Frankfurt the year is 1909. Hans is middle class, regards himself as a nationalistic German.
He votes for the Centre Party.
There are 2 million Jews living in Germany but Hans has no Jewish friends. He knows a tailor and a baker but they're ok.
He laughs at the Anti-Semitic Jokes of the music hall comedian but that's ok, it's only fun.
He is worried though. Most of these Jews have families in Russia.
Who would they support if Russia went to war with Germany?
He thinks many of them are Socialists or worst Anarchists. He thinks the police should keep an eye on them.
Fast Forward to 2009. Hans Mann's great grandson is still living in Frankfurt.
There are no more Jews but now there are many Muslims.
Hans is worried, many of them have families in Afghanistan and Iraq, There are German soldiers fighting in those countries. Who do these Muslims in Germany support?
He laughs at their funny clothes and beards but in private. It is not politically correct to do so in public. Hans thinks this is silly.
He has heard that many of them are radicals and want to impose Sharia law in Germany. Some of them were caught trying to plot a suicide bombing last year .
He thinks the police should keep an eye on them.

ffs...:rolleyes:

Utterly laughable example built on pre-conceived generalisms such as the 'middle class' Jew and all his 'anarchist' friends as well as this wave of 'radical' muslims.
'Fictitious' indeed.

ckristo2

This event happened a hundred years ago in London.
The Times called it "An amazing series of Outrages without parallel in a civilised country."
It was the 9/11 of it's day.
Two Jewish anarchists robbed a factory and were trying to make their get away when they were pursued by a party of policemen. they shot one constable and a ten year old boy on the street but were later apprehended. It stunned the nation that this could occur in an English city.
Just 11 months later another party of Jewish revolutionaries held off several score of police and two companies of the Scot's Guards in the famous Siege of Sydney street.
An organisation called The British Brothers League was set up to deport foreigners particularly Jews.
It cannot have escaped that notice of the authorities that all direct action left wing groups such as the Anarcho-Syndicalists and Socialists were well represented by Jews in their ranks. Zinoviev and Kaminev visited Britain around this time and were treated like the Abu Hamsa of their day with calls for their deportation.
I'm sure it merely inflamed any Anti-Semitism that was already extant but for a long time people associated Jews with revolutionaries much as they do today fundamentalist Muslims with Jihadists.

Serenity Now!

Un-effing-real.
Muslims in Europe (since you're going to generalise on millions of people, I will too) are are not prohibited from living anywhere or denied an entitlement to pursue an education or profession.

Next time you want to say Muslims in Europe get it just as tough as Jews a century ago, don't bother asking a question in the initial post.
This image of "The Jews" being active militants is as daft and misinformed as lumping Muslims these days in the Jihadist pigeon-hole.

ckristo2

Perhaps I've been looking at this the wrong way. Maybe a broader approach might be better. There's never going to be a perfect match and I don't have the ten years research this subject needs but for the moment here we go:
If I stack up the similarities between the Jewish people 100 Y.A. and Muslims today it would look something like this:
Many of them live outside their native homelands. They have the challenge of whether to integrate into western societies and risk compromising an important part of their identity, i.e. their religion which defines them or live seperately from those societies and risk being perpetual outsiders.
They have a strong interest in politics both in the Middle East and the politics of the countries in which they live. this would not be as true for other ethnic minorities iving in the west, Chinese, African, Hispanic, Gypsies etc.
The presence of Jews in Europe 100 Y.A. was regarded as problematic You often read for example of the "Jewish problem" or the "Jewish question"
Today we're a bit more circumspect but there is a feeling that Muslims living in the west are somehow a difficulty to be be watched to be worried about. They must be protected from radicalism and we cannot understand their obsession with religion exactly as Europeans and Americans would have felt 100 Y.A about Jews who did not wish to integrate.
Finally 100 Y.A. the Jewish people of course had no country at all and today many Muslims feel that the various countries from which they come are not happy places. Many feel they are either hopelessly compromised morally and economically with the west (or in the case of the Central Asian states with Russia) who wish to dominates them politically and economically (the Saudis are universally despised by many Muslims not only for their drunkeness and gambling but for their kowtowing to America in particular) And on the other hand they see fanatical Islamic states such as Iran where few educated secular Muslims would care to live.
In short Jews 100 Y.A. no country. For many Muslims today countries they don't want to live in.

brianthebard

Is this about 19th or 21st century Europe? If its the former then just stick to the history, leave out the comparisions, they are confusing and going off the point. If its the latter I'll move this thread to politics. Pick one.

meglome

Op I'm not really getting your overall point, it seems to be changing. Jewish people have been oppressed and scapegoated especially in Europe for a very long time, simple historical fact. So it's not even remotely surprising that you find plenty of cases where Jewish people were involved in let's say direct action. As others have pointed out going back Jews often had few of the rights that there Christian neighbours had. Muslims living in the west whether they were born in the west or not have exactly the same rights as everyone else. Yes they are being racially profiled to a degree in the UK and elsewhere just like the Irish were in the UK up to the late '90's. As someone who was stopped on numerous occasions in UK airports I can imagine some Muslims are angry about this. Unfortunately I don't have a better suggestion as to how people should be checked.

I think many Muslims need to stop blaming the west for their problems and look closer to home first.