Would munster beat the best of the super 14?

heybaby

Would Munster fair well against the sharks or crusaders etc? perhaps some of the southern hemisphere posters could give us an idea?:)

Stev_o

heybaby wrote: »

Would the NH clubs fair well against the sharks or crusaders etc? perhaps some of the southern hemisphere posters could give us an idea?:)

Fixed.

IMO it's a different breed of game down there at the moment, all about off loading out of the tackle and the like not the same as what is being played up here so it's near impossible to say who would beat who.

siltirocker

Brent Pope is confident they would!

louthandproud

heybaby wrote: »

Would Munster fair well against the sharks or crusaders etc? perhaps some of the southern hemisphere posters could give us an idea?:)

Wasn't there some talk of a play off between HEC and Super 14 winners?

thomond2006

There should be a World Club Challenge, like in Rugby League where the winners of the big NH and SH competitions face off to be crowned world champions (this year it was Manly Sea Eagles of NRL vs Leeds of Super League).

Munster vs Crusaders would be cool! I'm sure 50,000 Munster fans would pack Christchurch!! :D

wixfjord

Depends on which rules are played, but with the amount on sh players up here Id say munster would beat most s14 teams, as wpuld many of the top tier of european rugby. The S14 game at the moment is like watching a different sport, a lot faster and much better handling and offloading but lacking the intensity of a good Hcup game.

barnesd

The Autumn/Summer tours show pretty much every year that the SH are miles ahead of the NH.

louthandproud

barnesd wrote: »

The Autumn/Summer tours show pretty much every year that the SH are miles ahead of the NH.

Eh? that's their national sides.

Davei141

louthandproud wrote: »

Eh? that's their national sides.

And which clubs do you think they get picked from? As for the Munster v Crusaders question, if it was 2 years ago no doubt in my mind the crusaders. At the moment against the sharks? It would be a seriously cracking game and a monster of a battle upfront.

chupacabra

Tho i would love to see it happen, there isnt much room in the rugby calendar for another tournament like that and there isnt much time in which it could be held without giving an unfair advantage to one side due to the different times of the year the seasons begin.

louthandproud

Davei141 wrote: »

And which clubs do you think they get picked from?

Mostly if not all their own clubs I imagine. Doesn't necessarily correlate that the clubs are better just because the National sides are, even though I'd expect that by and large they are, but the question was about specifically about the HEC champions playing their best not a general question about the standard of rugby overall in each hemisphere.

Davei141

louthandproud wrote: »

Mostly if not all their own clubs I imagine. Doesn't necessarily correlate that the clubs are better just because the National sides are, even though I'd expect that by and large they are,

It's a pretty good indication though, especially in the southern hemisphere.

but the question was about specifically about the HEC champions playing their best not a general question about the standard of rugby overall in each hemisphere.

At the moment its the sharks, but i couldn't call it. Guess thats the great thing about rugby.

Orizio

Stev_o wrote: »

Fixed.

IMO it's a different breed of game down there at the moment, all about off loading out of the tackle and the like not the same as what is being played up here so it's near impossible to say who would beat who.

Yes, the Super 14 is much faster and probably more skillful, although in my opinion less exciting, and not just because I haven't gotten an interest in who wins. I have to remind myself I'm not watching Rugby League sometimes.

Stev_o

Orizio wrote: »

Yes, the Super 14 is much faster and probably more skillful, although in my opinion less exciting, and not just because I haven't gotten an interest in who wins. I have to remind myself I'm not watching Rugby League sometimes.

Difference is League is exciting :P

[Jackass]

I think there should be a world club cup final between HEC & S14 in the mid-point of off season - what would that be - S14 just finishing and NH just starting or something? I don't, can't think, but anywhoooo should be hosted in a neuatral venue in NH then SH on a rotating basis in developing nations, such as Japan, Fiji, Italy, Portugal, USA, Canada etc. etc. etc.

gosplan

There used to be a one match intercontinental cup in soccer that had the winners of Europe vrs the winners of S.America.

That's all that's needed - one test match a year, playing for your hemisphere. Rotate the location each year.

Who the hell wouldn't want to play that? - half the time it'd be a SA/European anyway which is pretty much in the same time zone and everything.

CatFromHue

if i remember around 1998 or 1999 when the heinken cup was young there was a game between the winners of the european cup aginst the winners of the super 12
i remember brive getting beaten very badly by auckland blues, i think there was another fixture played the following year but that was it.

anonymous_joe

gosplan wrote: »

There used to be a one match intercontinental cup in soccer that had the winners of Europe vrs the winners of S.America.

That's all that's needed - one test match a year, playing for your hemisphere. Rotate the location each year.

Who the hell wouldn't want to play that? - half the time it'd be a SA/European anyway which is pretty much in the same time zone and everything.

It's a bigger tournament now, but still going.

Be hard to do it given that the teams are playing two different sports.

makker

I reckon the current Munster team would beat the best of the Super 14.

However IMO the standard of the super 14 is has weakened this year and reckon Munster would have struggled against the Crusaders team of last year and and previous years

Reckon the bulls would run them close as they could get the upper hand in the set piece, also have a good no 8-9 combo, and bags pace out wide

anonymous_joe

makker wrote: »

I reckon the current Munster team would beat the best of the Super 14.

However IMO the standard of the super 14 is has weakened this year and reckon Munster would have struggled against the Crusaders team of last year and and previous years

Reckon the bulls would run them close as they could get the upper hand in the set piece, also have a good no 8-9 combo, and bags pace out wide

Bulls or the Sharks would be easily able to match Munster up front and would be better placed in the backlines.

Most of the other teams aren't anywhere complete enough in reality.

Serenity Now!

thomond2006 wrote: »

Munster vs Crusaders would be cool! I'm sure 50,000 Munster fans would pack Christchurch!! :D

They're both competitions currently playing different law sets.
What is the best time of year to hold it? Should the venue be midway logistically?

Digifriendly

CatFromHue wrote: »

if i remember around 1998 or 1999 when the heinken cup was young there was a game between the winners of the european cup aginst the winners of the super 12
i remember brive getting beaten very badly by auckland blues, i think there was another fixture played the following year but that was it.

Remember this as well and AFAIK RTE showed this game live from France.

Chucky the tree

There's enough fixtures as there is. The World club championship in RL is always a poor affair with the SH team usually only using it as a weeks holiday.

escobar

Munster have the all time top try sorer of the Super 14
and basically the pack that won the grand slam . My hats off to them.

They'd most probably destory S14 opposition.

GiftofGab

where can i catch a round up of super 14 highlights on tele??? Do sky sports still have a programme on it on saturday mournings?? I dont like watching it on the internet, also I have sky plus so i can put it on series link

anonymous_joe

escobar wrote: »

Munster have the all time top try sorer of the Super 14
and basically the pack that won the grand slam . My hats off to them.

They'd most probably destory S14 opposition.

:eek:

Ignoring the shít teams.

The Bulls, Sharks, Tahs and Chiefs, Canes and Blues would all be very strong teams.

They might lose, they might win, they wouldn't be destroyed.

But anyway, different rules, so which ones would you use?

LumpyChicken

I agree that Super 14's is a different breed of rugby. There is a lot less emphasis on defence in Super 14's and this leads to faster games but in my opinion demeans the quality of the sport. I don't think a Super 14's team would have the know how to breakdown a defence like Munsters and for this reason I think Munster would beat any one of them.

Tomtom364

LumpyChicken wrote: »

I agree that Super 14's is a different breed of rugby. There is a lot less emphasis on defence in Super 14's and this leads to faster games but in my opinion demeans the quality of the sport. I don't think a Super 14's team would have the know how to breakdown a defence like Munsters and for this reason I think Munster would beat any one of them.

I agree. Alot of super 14 games display shocking defence when compared to that of the likes of munster

anonymous_joe

LumpyChicken wrote: »

I agree that Super 14's is a different breed of rugby. There is a lot less emphasis on defence in Super 14's and this leads to faster games but in my opinion demeans the quality of the sport. I don't think a Super 14's team would have the know how to breakdown a defence like Munsters and for this reason I think Munster would beat any one of them.

They're not idiots in fairness to them.

Some of their teams are pretty poor, but the big teams, like the Canes and the Sharks would be a match for anything the NH could offer.

DonkeyPokerTour

Tomtom364 wrote: »

I agree. Alot of super 14 games display shocking defence when compared to that of the likes of munster

This comes from my limited experience of super 14's but all the teams seem to have the "Barcelona" attitude from soccer. Barca's attitude is, if you score 4 we'll score 5! Munster's attitude is to first prevent the opposition from scoring, then score themselves. So I think Munster should prevail. However if were played under the "free kick for everything" rules then it would be much tougher for Munster.

buck65

Munster have beaten every other team I don't knw why a SH club team would be any different.

anonymous_joe

DonkeyPokerTour wrote: »

This comes from my limited experience of super 14's but all the teams seem to have the "Barcelona" attitude from soccer. Barca's attitude is, if you score 4 we'll score 5! Munster's attitude is to first prevent the opposition from scoring, then score themselves. So I think Munster should prevail. However if were played under the "free kick for everything" rules then it would be much tougher for Munster.

Uhm, this being the Barcelona who are destroying everyone at the moment?

I mean, defensive play isn't better than attacking play, it's just easier to be effective by playing defensively than by playing attacking rugby. Then again, I don't think Leinster are any better or worse than a couple of seasons ago in terms of results, but they've completley changed from being attacking to being defensive. By your logic, that makes them better, by visual observation, they've neither progressed nor regressed massively.

And yeah, Munster would probably lose badly under souther ELVs, as any team from the NH would.

buck65 wrote: »

Munster have beaten every other team I don't knw why a SH club team would be any different.

They've also lost to most teams. :pac:

A team like Toulouse on a good day, versus Munster on a good day, well, it's nigh on impossible to call. Munster are very good, but come on, even the world's best can lose regularly.

escobar

anonymous_joe wrote: »

:eek:

Ignoring the shít teams.

The Bulls, Sharks, Tahs and Chiefs, Canes and Blues would all be very strong teams.

They might lose, they might win, they wouldn't be destroyed.

But anyway, different rules, so which ones would you use?

I dunno, maybe......Basketball rules??

Forgetting about the Grand slam pack and the all time top try scorer in the S14...Even Munster's second team almost beat the all blacks ......

Truly they are a very special team. They have top class opposition week in week out . Four of the top eight in Europe this year are in the ML.
Their points on the European club ranking system are so high that even if they didn't compete this year they'd still be no. 1.

So they'd be pretty much ready for whatever would be thrown at them...... I'm a leinster fan but credit where credits due

escobar

buck65 wrote: »

Munster have beaten every other team I don't knw why a SH club team would be any different.

Most of the S14 top players are in Europe now anyway so I'd tend to agree with you.

Amabokke

heybaby wrote: »

Would Munster fair well against the sharks or crusaders etc? perhaps some of the southern hemisphere posters could give us an idea?:)

Before they beat Ospreys I'd say in Limerick maybe but in SA or NZ they will find it very difficult. But after that match, it will be close call and I'd say 50/50. Was very impressed with their backline (thanks to the SH players) and the combining effort of their forwards and backs. Crusaders are not really top dog at the moment but Munster vs Sharks could be good.

DonkeyPokerTour

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Uhm, this being the Barcelona who are destroying everyone at the moment?

I mean, defensive play isn't better than attacking play, it's just easier to be effective by playing defensively than by playing attacking rugby. Then again, I don't think Leinster are any better or worse than a couple of seasons ago in terms of results, but they've completley changed from being attacking to being defensive. By your logic, that makes them better, by visual observation, they've neither progressed nor regressed massively.

I didn't say its a bad thing to be very attack minded, but i think if you look at consistent results you'll find teams with a more defensive set up tend to do better.

Leinster are probably winning more games now than a few years ago but winning by fewer points. Back a few years if the Attack didn't spark (like it didn't in the final pool game the year vs edinborough in the ERC) Leinster probably would have lost the game. However when the attack sparked they could easily run in 6 or 7 try's. Now due to conceding fewer points even when the attack has an off day they have a chance of winning.

These are just my view's I haven't done any leg work in terms of looking at Leinster's results in detail over the last say 5 years, so I stand open to correction on this.

Nothingcompares

Do the Munster fans (and i assume they are all munster fans) who think they'd beat the best In SH club rugby believe Munster would beat Ireland if the players like POC that play for both were cloned and able to play for both sides?

anonymous_joe

escobar wrote: »

I dunno, maybe......Basketball rules??

Forgetting about the Grand slam pack and the all time top try scorer in the S14...Even Munster's second team almost beat the all blacks ......

Truly they are a very special team. They have top class opposition week in week out . Four of the top eight in Europe this year are in the ML.
Their points on the European club ranking system are so high that even if they didn't compete this year they'd still be no. 1.

So they'd be pretty much ready for whatever would be thrown at them...... I'm a leinster fan but credit where credits due

That New Zealand team they lost to would be ravaged by the Canes, the Sharks, teh Bulls, the Tahs, and probably most of the others. Except the Highlanders. And the Reds. :P

Seriously Munster are good, but we're seriously overhyping them here.

DonkeyPokerTour wrote: »

I didn't say its a bad thing to be very attack minded, but i think if you look at consistent results you'll find teams with a more defensive set up tend to do better.

Leinster are probably winning more games now than a few years ago but winning by fewer points. Back a few years if the Attack didn't spark (like it didn't in the final pool game the year vs edinborough in the ERC) Leinster probably would have lost the game. However when the attack sparked they could easily run in 6 or 7 try's. Now due to conceding fewer points even when the attack has an off day they have a chance of winning.

These are just my view's I haven't done any leg work in terms of looking at Leinster's results in detail over the last say 5 years, so I stand open to correction on this.

Oh I know what you mean, but defense is more successful not because it's inherently better, but because it's easier to have a consistent defence than a consistent attack.

Keep this in mind - Team X scores 3 tries and concedes 2 - Team Y concedes no tries and scores 1. Neither team is better than the other really.

In rugby scoring tries has become very hard (outside of the ELVs used in S14), so while defensive play can be very effective (Leinster V Quins) attacking play is just as effective, it's just harder to pull off.

Long story short, a worse team can be successful playing defensively (look at the birth of hyper defensive football, Greece winning the Euros in 2004 being a great example of that, Munster in their first European successes in rugby terms) but a good team is rarely more effective by playing defensively. New Zealand could play like Leinster do these days (:() and would almost certainly do well, but it's more effective for them to use their attacking talents.

DonkeyPokerTour

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Oh I know what you mean, but defense is more successful not because it's inherently better, but because it's easier to have a consistent defence than a consistent attack.

QFT I agree 100% with what you said there.