Has anbody written a disciplinary procedure?

shoutman

Has anybody written or negotiated a disciplinary procedure?

I'm wondering what the standard provisions would be for suspending such a procedure, should management have the right to do so at any time? Would you know of any legal basis for such a request?

Also do Trade Unions have any say in the affair of suspending procedures.

Thanks in advance.

Lplated

Not sure i understand your question properly - why would disiplinary provisions/procedures be suspended?

Lplated

shoutman wrote: »

Has anybody written or negotiated a disciplinary procedure?

I'm wondering what the standard provisions would be for suspending such a procedure, should management have the right to do so at any time? Would you know of any legal basis for such a request?

I can't think of any 'standard provision' for suspending a disiplinary procedure once it has been initiated. It would normally be taken through its full course to a conclusion.

The legal basis for such a request could only arise from the contract itself (employee/employer relationship is a contract, one of the terms of which is the disciplinary procedure laid out in the manual - an employer must have such a procedure and must follow it to avoid unfair dismissal claims etc..)

shoutman wrote: »

Also do Trade Unions have any say in the affair of suspending procedures.

Thanks in advance.

Once a contract including the disciplinary code is agreed, it forms the legal basis for the employee/er relationship, nobody could interfere as such. Trade union involvement would usually be restricted to negotiating or representing an employee in some fashion.


I don't think i've answered your question because i don't fully understand it - maybe could you put it in some sort of context for us?

DubTony

In my experience the only time you'd suspend disciplinary procedures is in cases of gross misconduct detrimental to the business. This could be stealing / embezzlement (a no-brainer), using abusive and/or threatening language, but be careful with this one, if it can be proven that bad language is tolerated in the business it's unlikely to hold up, fighting, assault, abuse to a customer at any time (tricky here as well depending on the culture within the organisation and the relationships with customers).

It's pretty unusual to suspend normal disciplinary procedures, but if someone has done something so bad that nobody could work with them or the business has been affected badly by it, then dismissal is sometimes the only way to go. Don't forget that employees aren't generally protected by unfair dismissal laws until they have a full years service.

As for unions. *sigh* I hate dealing with these guys. Their rationale sometimes defies belief and they'll try all sorts of tricks, especially if they feel that an employer is inexperienced in dealing with these situations. Make sure you know your stuff if dealing with a union and if you don't it's a good idea to get expert help from your trade organisation.

And now it's time for Tony's anecdote. (well a post from me wouldn't be complete without one )
I had a situation where an employee lost €300 (yes, I believe it was a genuine mistake that allowed another staff member to take advantage and steal it) and her union rep was prepared to take the First Written Warning we gave her all the way to a rights commissioner. It didn't stop until the employee left 5 months later and I had to inform them of the employee leaving. It was quite funny at the time. The girl on the phone muttered something about "another one wasting everyone's time".

shoutman

Sorry if the first post was a bit muddled. Basically I have been given two disciplinary procedure proposals, one by management and one by the trade union, and have been asked to make recommendations to the management and offer advice on how they should proceed. This is all hypothetical btw.

The management had it that they could suspend the disciplinary procedure once they give 6 months notice or amend it once they give three months notice.

In the Trade Union proposals they wanted the ability to suspend it given one month notice (which seems ridiculous).

I was just trying to find out whether TU's ever get these kind of powers in drawn up disciplinary procedures and whether or not they have a legal entitlement to such powers (presumably they don't)
Thanks for all the advice thus far and sorry for the muddled original post.

Lplated

DubTony wrote: »

In my experience the only time you'd suspend disciplinary procedures is in cases of gross misconduct detrimental to the business. This could be stealing / embezzlement (a no-brainer), using abusive and/or threatening language, but be careful with this one, if it can be proven that bad language is tolerated in the business it's unlikely to hold up, fighting, assault, abuse to a customer at any time (tricky here as well depending on the culture within the organisation and the relationships with customers).

Strictly speaking this isn't a suspension of disciplinary procedures - employment law provides for summary (immediate, without recourse to disciplinary hearings) dismissal in cases like those you have mentioned. Your disciplinary procedures would be read at law as including that provision, whether in writing or not.

Lplated

shoutman wrote: »

The management had it that they could suspend the disciplinary procedure once they give 6 months notice or amend it once they give three months notice.
.

By law you are required to have a disciplinary procedure. It could be amended following negotiation but in no other circumstances.

You wouldn't have to give notice of an intention to negotiate an amendment, but achieving the amendment would depend on agreement by employer and employee.

shoutman wrote: »

In the Trade Union proposals they wanted the ability to suspend it given one month notice (which seems ridiculous).

I was just trying to find out whether TU's ever get these kind of powers in drawn up disciplinary procedures and whether or not they have a legal entitlement to such powers (presumably they don't) .

I'm glad this is just hypothetical because it doesn't make sense .... unless, are you talking about a case where a disciplinary procedure has been commenced against an employee and somewhere during that process you want to stop the disciplinary process? In that event, if the procedure was not actually going to continue, you would be obliged to drop it as soon as possible.

I'm trying to help and not being funny, but there is no concept in employment law that i've ever come across that involves suspending disciplinary procedures.

DubTony

Lplated wrote: »

Strictly speaking this isn't a suspension of disciplinary procedures - employment law provides for summary (immediate, without recourse to disciplinary hearings) dismissal in cases like those you have mentioned. Your disciplinary procedures would be read at law as including that provision, whether in writing or not.

yeah, I misunderstood the question. But then so did shoutman.