Active Isolated Strecthing

Running Bing

http://www.runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=3512

http://www.duhac.tcdlife.ie/Training/stretching_local_copy.php

Anybody use it? Apparently the old way of holding a strech for 20-30 secs is a bit crap and this is the way forward.


Personally Im not big on stretching because the research on it seems very mixed but I've been using the AIS method for the past few months but pretty sporadically i.e. only when my muscles feel tight and I only use it to stretch my calfs, hamstrings and quads.


Cant really say I can notice a big difference (although the movements do seem to be getting easier) but Im just wondering do many people use it or are most still in the traditional camp?

RoyMcC

First time I've come across this to be honest. I'd be interested to hear if any other coaches use it.

Certainly I believe that most coaches/athletes will now avoid any heavy stretching before training or competition - in that I'm sure there's a general concensus. But for mobility and range of movement it is essential at other times for athletes wanting to maximise their performance.

But well worth checking out this AIS thing.

Edit - if Hartmann & Michael Johnson use it then maybe I've missed something.

lecheile

Babybing wrote: »

http://www.runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=3512

http://www.duhac.tcdlife.ie/Training/stretching_local_copy.php

Anybody use it? Apparently the old way of holding a strech for 20-30 secs is a bit crap and this is the way forward.


Personally Im not big on stretching because the research on it seems very mixed but I've been using the AIS method for the past few months but pretty sporadically i.e. only when my muscles feel tight and I only use it to stretch my calfs, hamstrings and quads.


Cant really say I can notice a big difference (although the movements do seem to be getting easier) but Im just wondering do many people use it or are most still in the traditional camp?

Hi babybing - like RoyMcC, I have not heard of it either. Worth noting that the article in Running Times was sep 2004 - so if its been around that long and not widely known, perhaps it has not been widely adopted. Personally I use a combination of regular static and dynamic stretching.

macshay

As long as your stretching is specific then all stretching is good, I prefer to use different terms, preparation to compete or train; or to improve flexibility and range of movement then static stretching is ok too, provided its at least 2 hous after a session.

Stupid_Private

I'd do this stretching before and after. Been doing it for a fair few years now. A lot of people confuse it with static stretching because you're fairly static when doing AIS and therefore think its not the best approach.

Running Bing

lecheile wrote: »

Hi babybing - like RoyMcC, I have not heard of it either. Worth noting that the article in Running Times was sep 2004 - so if its been around that long and not widely known, perhaps it has not been widely adopted.

I think it is pretty widely known Lecheile.....its usually mentioned along with static and dynamic but due to the fact static has been around for decades its only natural that new runners is stretching will stretch that way.

According to Hartmann in the article "Now at competitions worldwide, the system termed active isolated stretching is preferred by most athletes."

There's loads about it on the net.

Certainly I believe that most coaches/athletes will now avoid any heavy stretching before training or competition - in that I'm sure there's a general concensus. But for mobility and range of movement it is essential at other times for athletes wanting to maximise their performance.

That assumes two things though 1) stretching actually improves mobility and range of movement and 2) mobility and range of movement are desirable and improve running performance.

Im not saying that is not the case but there has been arguments put forward to the contrary.

The research on stretching just seems so confusing.

A lot of people say static is absolutely useless...its all some people do
Some say it prevents injury...others say it causes it
Some say its good for recovery...others say it only makes things worse
Some say it improves performance.....others say it inhibits performance


So I think it probably just come down to personal preference about what you want to believe....for me stretching is tedious, boring and time consuming with few noticeable benefits so I tend to err on the negative side;)

Running Bing

Stupid_Private wrote: »

I'd do this stretching before and after. Been doing it for a fair few years now. A lot of people confuse it with static stretching because you're fairly static when doing AIS and therefore think its not the best approach.

Do you run with a club stupid private?


Id be interested to hear from club runners about the type of stretching recommended by their coaches.

Stupid_Private

I'm with a club alright but nothing is suggested there. It's warm up run followed by the session. A few lads will do stretches in the clubhouse beforehand, but it's fairly cramped there. Luckily enough I live right next door so I get all my stretching done before I arrive.

thirtyfoot

As regards all athletes at competitions worldwide doing AIS I watched the warmup area at the Crystal Palace meet the year before last for about an hour and everyone was doing a dynamic warmup, drills, walkovers etc. The only one I saw doing AIS was Tyson Gay. Jeremy Wariner (who at the same time was still coached by Michael Johnson's coach) did a very dynamic warmup with lots and lots or running.

I think most athletes do warmups including AIS these days and don't realise they are doing it. Having read those articles I know I do and I didn't realise it was AIS.

Practically all athletes now do a dynamic warmup with various drills, dynamic stretches. As macshay says its all about "preparation to compete or train" and I think once you follow that you won't go wrong. Is there a point in doing hip extension work over a hurdle in your warm-up if you are doing a marathon or is there a point in doing a 5k run to warmup if you are doing a 100m sprint. If you think what you are warming up for and adjust your warmup to reflect that.

Afterwards is more of a grey area. Many athletes are very lazy with warmdowns and stretching and it can be very hit and miss and is something that is neglected by many.

RoyMcC

Babybing wrote: »

That assumes two things though 1) stretching actually improves mobility and range of movement and 2) mobility and range of movement are desirable and improve running performance.

Im not saying that is not the case but there has been arguments put forward to the contrary.

1. Done properly and when the body is at working temperature then regular stretching can dramatically improve range of movement. I don't think this is in question and coaches see it every day.

2. Look at a high hurdler and tell me that they could attain those positions over the hurdles without regular, specific stretching. Look at any elite javelin or discus thrower in slo mo and say that an unstretched athlete could reach those extreme positions. Look at the weird positions a top race walker can get into to maximise stride length.

If you accept that then you must accept that, say, a runner's improved hip flexibility will lead to increased stride length and therefore efficiency.

But I accept that the methods of stretching, and the conditions under which it is done, ought to be continually questioned.

thirtyfoot

RoyMcC wrote: »

2. Look at a high hurdler and tell me that they could attain those positions over the hurdles without regular, specific stretching. Look at any elite javelin or discus thrower in slo mo and say that an unstretched athlete could reach those extreme positions. Look at the weird positions a top race walker can get into to maximise stride length.

I think there is a difference between static flexibility and dynamic flexibility. I have average static flexibility and on a bad day I may struggle to touch my toes:eek: but have better dynamic flexibility which I put down to hip work I do on walkovers, drills etc. I did very limited stuff with Dartfish and from what I saw my dynamic flexibility is better than a guy who has better static flexibility than me as regards range of movement etc. Having said that we are both pretty inflexible and need improvement but it was strange that the tradional tests of flexibility here didn't tally to what we were doing when running. Its very interesting and I am a novice at looking at it but I also coach a girl who is very statically flexible and I notice she is overstriding a lot when running. I don't know but it maybe is that she is too flexible. Hard to know, it may be that she just overstrides. You then look at Paul Hession and he runs as if he is as stiff as a board on the face of it yet what he really is being is very economical and compact. Biomechanics confuses me a lot but its so important and I am trying to understand it more.

Running Bing

RoyMcC wrote: »

1. Done properly and when the body is at working temperature then regular stretching can dramatically improve range of movement. I don't think this is in question and coaches see it every day.

In the article above Hartmann himself says:

Amazingly, it never registered with me that though I stretched regularly I never made any gains in flexibility.

Also from Noakes lore of running:

there is no published evidence to suggest that regular stretching improves running performance

I dont know enough about the body and stretching to comment on its usefulness myself but Im just pointing out there are doubts about its effectiveness.

As I said Im not saying it is ineffective Im just saying there are definitely questions about its effectiveness.

RoyMcC wrote: »

2. Look at a high hurdler and tell me that they could attain those positions over the hurdles without regular, specific stretching. Look at any elite javelin or discus thrower in slo mo and say that an unstretched athlete could reach those extreme positions. Look at the weird positions a top race walker can get into to maximise stride length.

If you accept that then you must accept that, say, a runner's improved hip flexibility will lead to increased stride length and therefore efficiency.

Good article on this here: http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/1007.htm


I have read a fair few articles that advocated the point of view that less flexibility may lead to better performance.


Again I am not advocating that myself, Im just saying its one of the views out there and for a lot of people its no longer a case of blindly accepting "stretching is good and is something we should all be doing". Serious questions are now being asked of it.

cfitz

Babybing wrote: »

I have read a fair few articles that advocated the point of view that less flexibility may lead to better performance.

Surely the argument here is just that there is a point where one can be too flexible??! Not that it's good to have no flexibility! I would have thought that only really flexible athletes (read:very few amateur distance runners) would need to worry about their exercises making them too flexible.

Running Bing

cfitz wrote: »

Surely the argument here is just that there is a point where one can be too flexible??! Not that it's good to have no flexibility! I would have thought that only really flexible athletes (read:very few amateur distance runners) would need to worry about their exercises making them too flexible.

Yeah you could have point there cfitz.


Also I should say I am looking at this from the point of view of a younger runner (early twenties) who has always been pretty flexible anyway.


Again Ill say Im not really advocating any one side here....Im more confused by stretching more than anything else and thats why for the most part (unless Im feeling particularly tight) I dont really bother with it.


I have thought about introducing a regular stretching programme but I just cant find enough concrete evidence to justify the time (and what some would point to as potential downsides).


Is there anybody here who really swears by stretching and feels it has made them a better runner?

RoyMcC

Babybing they are indeed interesting quotes and extracts and it would be remiss of anyone not to at least examine them with an open mind. Especially when the likes of Ger Hartmann are involved.

But we are certainly in complicated territory if we now have to consider when an athlete is sufficiently but not over flexible

But like cfitz says it's not something that will apply to the majority of endurance runners. I never so much as stretch a muscle personally

Running Bing

RoyMcC wrote: »

But we are certainly in complicated territory if we now have to consider when an athlete is sufficiently but not over flexible

Lol, agree.


Its definitely an interesting area of discussion though.

cfitz

Babybing wrote: »

Is there anybody here who really swears by stretching and feels it has made them a better runner?

I think stretching has made me a better runner. I think my stretching has gradually made me more flexible (though perhaps there are better ways of improving flexibility or better types of stretches that I could be doing). And I think my improved flexibility has allowed me to train faster, further and more often without getting excessive soreness or injury.

However I have no real evidence or significant scientific knowledge to back this up.

baza1976

Tingle wrote: »

I think there is a difference between static flexibility and dynamic flexibility. I have average static flexibility and on a bad day I may struggle to touch my toes:eek: but have better dynamic flexibility which I put down to hip work I do on walkovers, drills etc. I did very limited stuff with Dartfish and from what I saw my dynamic flexibility is better than a guy who has better static flexibility than me as regards range of movement etc. Having said that we are both pretty inflexible and need improvement but it was strange that the tradional tests of flexibility here didn't tally to what we were doing when running. Its very interesting and I am a novice at looking at it but I also coach a girl who is very statically flexible and I notice she is overstriding a lot when running. I don't know but it maybe is that she is too flexible. Hard to know, it may be that she just overstrides. You then look at Paul Hession and he runs as if he is as stiff as a board on the face of it yet what he really is being is very economical and compact. Biomechanics confuses me a lot but its so important and I am trying to understand it more.

You should have put the "bold" comment at the start.... I have a pain in my head after reading that........ I'm off to ly down, don't tell the boss...;)

mrak

The "stretching is a waste of time" thing came out in 2000 following a big study in australia: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10694106?dopt=Abstract. This article got quoted all over the place and like the study that says "1 in 10 people are gay" or "left handed people die younger" any follow-on studies that showed different results didn't get the same press.

I haven't a clue as I'm always crocked but remember reading somewhere that people with abnormally high or low flexibility have a greater risk of injury than people with average which sounds sensible. I think most long distance runners probably fall into the lower than average flexibility category - running definitely has a stiffening up effect.

ss43

mrak wrote: »

The "stretching is a waste of time" thing came out in 2000 following a big study in australia: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10694106?dopt=Abstract. This article got quoted all over the place and like the study that says "1 in 10 people are gay" or "left handed people die younger" any follow-on studies that showed different results didn't get the same press.

I haven't a clue as I'm always crocked but remember reading somewhere that people with abnormally high or low flexibility have a greater risk of injury than people with average which sounds sensible. I think most long distance runners probably fall into the lower than average flexibility category - running definitely has a stiffening up effect.

Maybe I'm blind but I don't think that study even specifies which type of exercise they were doing which could easily affect it.

A lot of studies I've come across seem to be geared towards getting a specific result (most people want to prove their hypothesis rather than just check it out). You have to be careful to check methods, subjects and length of time before deciding to trust its conclusion. The study that says explosive strength training helps 5k time was done on orienteers rather than runners for example.