Maghera-Picking up epg, sound but no images, I am in Clare

swoofer

A total newbie but saw the mesage about MAGHERA and tuned in my pioneer lx5090, got 8 channels straightaway but no pictures!! Is this normal for a test or do they scramble them? Or is my tv plasma the wrong type, I was assured it would pick up DTT in Ireland??

Any help greatly appreciated?

gbcullen

slegs

GBCULLEN wrote: »

A total newbie but saw the mesage about MAGHERA and tuned in my pioneer lx5090, got 8 channels straightaway but no pictures!! Is this normal for a test or do they scramble them? Or is my tv plasma the wrong type, I was assured it would pick up DTT in Ireland??

Any help greatly appreciated?

gbcullen

Your TV is not MPEG4 capable that is why you dont get the pictures. You need a special CAM to convert the picture encoding to MPEG2 for your TV to work. See the sticky to see if your TV is comaptible with this CAM.

swoofer

Thanks for quick response but the funny thing is I asked on here BEFORE I bought TV and poster STB had a list that said LX5090H was suitable!! I bought it in Belfast good price etc.

I'll check out the cam thingy.

gbcullen

swoofer

I checked back on original poster re compatibility and it did say " down to letter on models" and mine is 5090 with no H. I knew beforehand it had to have the H but when ordering never bothered to ask!

I tried the cam page and no mention made of Pioneer but then again not a lot of people will make my mistake.

It was a great price! I would not mind but signal is 96% and 100% quality.

gbcullen

watty

A setbox however gives better quality than a Neotion CAM based MPEG4 to MPEG2 converter, and also allows built in EPG based recording with playback equal to live TV.

swoofer

thanks watty, I have gone back to a few posts and found a bit about richer sounds, they are aware the 5090 is uk only but as I have it for 4 weeks now I dont think I will get anywhere. We should blame pioneer for making the models so alike. They should have put UK after the 5090 and then everyone would know.

I'll have to see what Richer offer and to kill it all I was fixated on a Panasonic from the outset and only changed at the last minute. A bit daft selling uk versions to people down south etc.

gbcullen

Sponge Bob

It is high time that there was an IRISH code of practise on labelling DTT ready TVs and we could then name and shame IRISH retailers who breach it

slegs

How difficult could it be. The formal spec has been published for months. A simple "Irish DTT Compatible" sticker would suffice. Wouldn't need to be anything fancy (a marketing campaign would be great but a nice to have imo). I don't blame the retailers here - they have to sell the stock they have now. I blame the authorities (BCI/Comreg/RTE/DCMNR). They are hiding behind the failing Boxer launch which has nothing to do with this. The majority of people want to future proof their purchases right now for Digital RTE/TV3/TG4. It will be a minority who will want Boxer and in any case a "Ready for Boxer" sticker will only add further to the confusion.

Sponge Bob

The Sony Centre in Galway are the only ones i know of who have a clue and who advise properly

swoofer

I have checked back on my emails to Richer Sounds and one of them said " I have seen the same model in Limerick ... etc So the sales guy knew I was interested in an Irish compatible version and could easily said I needed the H model. They have gone way down in my estimation and they use Belfast as an outlet for the South.

I wonder how many others will be caught out when they try to pick up DTT?

gbcullen

Sponge Bob

Eamon Ryan does not care about the Irish Consumer , he might if we were buying pushbikes off him but even then

The BCI knows Boxer have not signed up ( ViaAccess) and that another consortium may get the contract ( Nagravision Conax or even Latens) and therefore they cannot say .

WE know around here that if it has a CI slot the TV is futureproofed to a degree .

That would be a Ready for DTT TV ( once you buy the right CAM)

The Only TVs that would otherwise be certifiable would be RTE Compatible TVs with mheg5 and mpeg4 built in , certain higher end ones but nothing really under €500

There is a broadcasting act going through the dáil now. A section on strict 100% shop liability for 3 years would focus their minds .

STB

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The BCI knows Boxer have not signed up ( ViaAccess) and that another consortium may get the contract ( Nagravision Conax or even Latens) and therefore they cannot say

Nagravision Conax or Latens did not tender for the commercial contract for DTT. Nagravision and Conax are encryption systems. As is Viaccess which would be the encyrption system of choice of Boxer should they sign the contract.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

WE know around here that if it has a CI slot the TV is futureproofed to a degree . That would be a Ready for DTT TV ( once you buy the right CAM)

NO we dont. You assume that manufacturers of IDTVs have been following DVB CI standards and ARE open which allows compatability with the likes of a Neotion MPEG4 trancoder cam. Only those on the list confirmed as working with the cam should confirm that you should buy one. Dont assume they work with every idtv, they dont. They were developed as a solution for the French market in conjunction with certain manufacturers. The new DVB CI+ standard will sort these issues out but not for old idtvs.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The Only TVs that would otherwise be certifiable would be RTE Compatible TVs with mheg5 and mpeg4 built in , certain higher end ones but nothing really under €500

There are TVs that are MHEG5 and MPEG4 compatible. The panasonic freesat range.

Most of the sony range too. In other scnarios you still get the epg data via dvb si.

GB CULLEN -

By pure coincidence this very model came up recently in discussion as another poster did not understand the significance of qouting the complete model number (I have done in the past and cant continue to emphasise that the letters at the end are very very important - in this case the H means it has both a HD sat tuner and HD terrestrial tuner capabilities)

Read this page

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055420793&page=16

get in contact with John McDonald MD richer sounds. He is a fairly reasonable man from what I can see and is not in the business of misleading people and seems to be proactive on this board. He will look after you no doubt. (he is based here in Dublin - he also runs the Phillips shop)

direct office line 00353.1.843.9231 johnmc@richersounds.ie

Suggestion

You should consider exchanging it (they may have to order it in)

for the Panasonic 50" TH-50PZ81B - £1399

http://www.johnlewis.com/230485870/P...x?source=35735

This TV is also 50". Is cheaper!. Has MPEG4 MHEG5. Will do DTT and has a HD Freesat tuner and menu as well. The complete model number is very important.

Let us know how you get on.

slegs

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Eamon Ryan does not care about the Irish Consumer , he might if we were buying pushbikes off him but even then

The BCI knows Boxer have not signed up ( ViaAccess) and that another consortium may get the contract ( Nagravision Conax or even Latens) and therefore they cannot say .

WE know around here that if it has a CI slot the TV is futureproofed to a degree .

That would be a Ready for DTT TV ( once you buy the right CAM)

The Only TVs that would otherwise be certifiable would be RTE Compatible TVs with mheg5 and mpeg4 built in , certain higher end ones but nothing really under €500

There is a broadcasting act going through the dáil now. A section on strict 100% shop liability for 3 years would focus their minds .

All TVs will only have a CI slot anyway and not a card reader so the Pay TV vendor or the encryption chosen is not an issue. We are only talking about TV's here and there is NO reason why they cannot have an "Irish DTT Ready" campaign for TVs. There are many TVs out there with MEPG4, MHEG 5 and a CI slot (an this number increases all the time). I bought mine in June 2008 before the spec was finalised and it has all three.

Set top boxes is a whole other issue that would be handled separately.

The Cush

Boxer said the following in their BCI DTT application

"Some will have bought an MPEG2 box, believing that they are thus “futureproof”. They will find that there will be a wide range of TV channels they cannot see. Boxer can therefore, in this period, offer buyers of MPEG2 boxes an “amnesty”. In plain English, Boxer can take a used MPEG2 box in exchange for a new Boxer MPEG4 box if a basic subscription is bought at the same time. In this way, the DTT early adopter segment will also be an active customer segment for Boxer."
...
"For this reason, Boxer is planning to introduce CA modules for iDTVs immediately on commencement of commercial activities. However, a problem needs to be overcome. The iDTVs sold are MPEG2 and therefore cannot receive Boxer’s channels or public service channels in MUX 2 (which is also MPEG4). There may be an unpleasant public situation when hundreds of housands of families who believed they had bought a futureproof TV discover that this is not the case. This may be a problem for the entire digitisation process."
...
"Boxer will provide free-of-charge to customers an MPEG-4 Plug & Play module to enable MPEG-2 integrated digital TVs (iDTVs) to receive the new MPEG-4 DTT service. This should mitigate any latent concern that the consumer electronics industry may have about the volume of iDTVs that have already been sold with MPEG-2 tuners."

swoofer

Well I have gone back and done a recap of what I thought I was ordering and basically I was being too clever, I wanted a plasma to receive current uhf.vhf, then when DTT came I wanted that as well as I would then have the benefit of DTT and old analogue without the need for another set top box. The pioneer was ideal as it had a nifty remote for switching between the 2 formats and I could press buttons 1 to 8 f for the 8 channels on DTT or so I thought. I have checked with Pioneer in Dublin just now to be told they will not bring the LX5090H set into Ireland and this one has the MPEG4 decoder. However they will supply the KRP500A and that is currently out of stock.

In a word " I mucked up" and had I realised I would have gone for the KRP500A. I cant switch to the panasonic as that does not have a VHF tuner and I like the 50" screen now.

@cush thanks for that extract " Boxer will provide free-of-charge to customers an MPEG-4 Plug & Play module to enable MPEG-2 integrated digital TVs (iDTVs) to receive the new MPEG-4 DTT service. This should mitigate any latent concern that the consumer electronics industry may have about the volume of iDTVs that have already been sold with MPEG-2 tuners."

but will it work in Pioneers??

thanks for all replies

gbcullen

snaps

Im finding this DTT thing here a bit of a shambles. People are still installing VHF aerials, buying mpeg 2 TV's etc etc. The general public do not know anything about the up and coming digital rollout here. The only people that are benifiting at the moment is sky. Everyone i know are going the satellite route & for RTE etc that means a sky sub.

I think the lack of infomation being realesed via however for this DTT rollout is a shambles. By the time its all up & running, people will have upgraded their tv's to UK spec sets (Mpeg 2), installed a satellite system & then have no interest in the irish DTT.

I remember in the UK when freeview was being rolled out, the information, campaign was superb. Even my father who is not very technically minded was all freeviewed up just after roll out in his part of the south east.

emaherx

I have been looking around for an MPEG4 TV.
I went into Currys and asked about them, where I got the reply
"MPEG4, whats that?"
So I told her its minimum requirement 4 Irish DTT and got the following reply.
"All of our tellys have the digital tick" :rolleyes:
I explained that that didn't mean anything for Irish DTT.
Then she seemed more concerned that she was after buying a TV herself and dosen't know if its MPEG4.

I got a similar response in other stores.

So I went into Powercity today and they have all of their MPEG4 tellys clearly marked. So I bought one there.The staff were fairly clued in and could list a number of TV's to be released soon as well as current stock.

STB

GBCULLEN wrote: »

@cush thanks for that extract " Boxer will provide free-of-charge to customers an MPEG-4 Plug & Play module to enable MPEG-2 integrated digital TVs (iDTVs) to receive the new MPEG-4 DTT service. This should mitigate any latent concern that the consumer electronics industry may have about the volume of iDTVs that have already been sold with MPEG-2 tuners."

but will it work in Pioneers??

Bear in mind that you would have to sign up to Boxer (ie pay for a service) in order to get a free "module".

The module is the Neotion Cam! So no is the answer for the Pioneers. Forget VHF tuners.... they will be redundant fairly soon. You should get the panasonic (and it is spec you are looking for - MHEG5 an all). You can use a old videorecorder scarted to it in the meantime whilst waiting for DTT to come on in Clare. Wont be long I would imagine.

The BCI/BAI will be implementing a DTT campaign in the coming months.

MBSnr

snaps wrote: »

Im finding this DTT thing here a bit of a shambles. People are still installing VHF aerials, buying mpeg 2 TV's etc etc. . The general public do not know anything about the up and coming digital rollout here. The only people that are benifiting at the moment is sky. Everyone i know are going the satellite route & for RTE etc that means a sky sub.

Yeap totally agree. Most if not all the people I have spoken too are completely unaware of it. I am going to dump Sky at some point (still waiting for possible other UK Freesat PVRs options to open up this summer) and I was under the impression DTT rollout was slowed down/non existent in the west, so I bought a VHF aerial and stumbled onto the DTT signals from Maghera by accident doing an autoscan on my TV... Unfortunately my TV is a 2007 UK model with Mpeg2 so I will need a Mpeg4 stb pvr if I want to replace my setup with a Sky+ equivalent.( Freesat+ for FTA and DTT+ for national PSBs)

swoofer

@stb, I have been looking at the Pioneer KRP-500A on your list as being suitable for dtt here but when I d/l the manual it seems to give the same tuner spec as the famous or now infamous LX5090 with the H missing!!

So basically how can I be sure it is MPEG4 compatible?

Help

gb---

STB

KRP-500A 50-inch ‘HD Ready 1080p’ KURO with Digital Terrestrial and Satellite Tuner (Separate
Media Receiver)


Equipped with an integrated analogue tuner, DVB-T tuner for digital terrestrial TV reception and a DVB-S/DVB-S2 tuner for receiving satellite signals, the KRP-500A is compliant with the EICTA ‘HDTV 1080p Minimum Requirements’ and supports MPEG-4 high definition decoding.


Video decoding MPEG2 MP@ML, MPEG2 MP@HL, MPEG4 AVC

STB

A tad expensive towards the pani....does MHEG5 for teletext etc.

You know it wont come with the freesat menu I presume. Its just like a normal HD FTA sat tuner.

lawhec

A VHF aerial is still a requirement in locations where its needed for RTÉ 1 & 2 - even if the main television has a proper DVB-T tuner & MPEG4 decoder, it is uncommon these days for only one tuner to TV to be used in a building, therefore for bedroom TV's, DVD or VCR recorders etc. that may still only have analogue tuners you'll still need the correct aerial.

As of right now, the DVB-T MPEG4 tests from now all bar one of the main transmission sites are still that, test transmissions. Until RTÉ (or RTÉ NL) come out and say "The network is now fully operational for domestic use", no one should be relying on these transmissions, even people like ourselves here that should have a good idea of what is involved. I'm sure over the next few weeks and months RTÉ NL engineers will be using these tests to evaluate how a future DVB-T network in Ireland can be carried (UK experience from the commencement of its switchover program that transposer relays can work for DVB-T signals I'm sure will be well investigated by RTÉ NL for example who will evaluate prospective sites.) Until then the primary terrestrial network is still the analogue network, as it still is for most of the UK.

The issue of receiving equipment on the other hand is a different matter - the use of television receivers with DVB-T MPEG2 decoders designed for the UK market is not completely mirrored with the 405/625 line RTÉ service from the 60's & 70's as only within some border areas and parts of the south-east can receive UK DVB-T transmissions as of now, rather the DVB-T tuners are redundant extras for where they live, an extra similar to VHF tuners for the same television in Britain. Hardly anyone except for experimentalists bought 405 line TV sets in places in Ireland where UK TV signals couldn't be relied upon for at least the good majority of the time. The time is now ripe for many people to be exploited for their natural ignorance regarding digital TV in the Republic with these test transmissions and if the BCI don't start informing people, consumer associations should be doing so sooner rather than later.

swoofer

@STB, thanks for help, boy they sure have made this complicated. I am slowly, very slowly getting disillusioned with this DTT. I was after best possible picture as analogue is OK as I only use a loft aerial, getting 2 old to go up on roof.

By the way I have freesat already a humax for ITV HD!!

There should be a sticky telling people exactly what to look for!!

I will probably end up with yet another set top box.

GB--

STB

GBCULLEN wrote: »

There should be a sticky telling people exactly what to look for!!

I will probably end up with yet another set top box.

GB--

There are, GB! You have to read them though!!

Otherwise you will end up in running in and buying the wrong thing.

Did you change the TV ?

swoofer

I am carefully considering the possibility of getting the krp500a and John has agreed to do an exchange when he has them back in stock. In the meantime I am trying to get clued up on everything Irish DTT and still confused.

Here is another question. Say I get the sigma box, how do I connect to Pioneer? I take it it is scart and in that case I will have to select the channel to be viewed via the sigma box? And I take it there is no rf out?

As for sticky I meant a Q&A eg Q. 1. What do I need to receive Irish DTT? A. A tv with an MPEG4 decoder or a set top box with MPEG4 decoder connected by usual tv coax aerial.

and so on.


gbcullen

Richersounds.ie: John

GBCULLEN wrote: »

I have checked back on my emails to Richer Sounds and one of them said " I have seen the same model in Limerick ... etc So the sales guy knew I was interested in an Irish compatible version and could easily said I needed the H model. They have gone way down in my estimation and they use Belfast as an outlet for the South.

I wonder how many others will be caught out when they try to pick up DTT?

gbcullen

Dear GBCullen and Boardies,

Just a quick note to defend Richer sounds here - I won't reprint the full email I received today regarding this unit (it would be unfair to GB) however what is posted here is completely at odds with what the Customer said to us today and I am a little upset that GBCullen has posted less than 1/2 the story.

At RicherSounds Belfast we source our Pioneer via Pioneer UK and we were specifically asked to price match a UK product and price with alink supplied by the Customer for a UK retailer with regards to this sale. There was never a mention of a 5090H model and as I hope you are aware we in no way possible attempt to pull the wool over Customers eyes in any way.

The simple fact is that we have no access to nor have we ever had any access to 5090H models - we have asked Pioneer UK if it is possible to access this model however to date we have not had any response.

GBCullen in his emails to us said the he was 'back in Ireland from the UK for a while' and again asked us for 3 price beats on 5090 from Uk sites (again no mention of a 'H' model), finally I also note that GB has not posted today that we have agreed to take his TV back against a KRP500 when it comes in.

Hardly fair?

Thanks as ever and STB thank's for your kind mention - we are all doing our best!

ATB,

John Mc

Richersounds.ie: John

GBCULLEN wrote: »

I have checked back on my emails to Richer Sounds and one of them said " I have seen the same model in Limerick ... etc So the sales guy knew I was interested in an Irish compatible version and could easily said I needed the H model. They have gone way down in my estimation and they use Belfast as an outlet for the South.

I wonder how many others will be caught out when they try to pick up DTT?

gbcullen

Dear GBCullen and Boardies,

Just a quick note to defend Richer Sounds here - I won't reprint the full email I received today regarding this unit from the Customer (it would be unfair to GB) however what is posted here is completely at odds with what the Customer said to us today and I am a little upset that GBCullen has posted less than 1/2 the story.

At RicherSounds Belfast we source our Pioneer via Pioneer UK and we were specifically asked to price match a UK product and price with links supplied by the Customer for retailers with regards to this sale. There was never a mention of a 5090H model and as I hope you are aware we in no way possible attempted to pull the wool over Customers eyes in any way.

The simple fact is that we have no access to nor have we ever had any access to 5090H models - we have asked Pioneer UK if it is possible to access this model however to date we have not had any response.

GBCullen in his emails to us said the he was 'back in Ireland from the UK for a while' and again asked us for 3 price beats on 5090 from Uk sites (again no mention of a 'H' model), finally I also note that GB has not posted that we have agreed to take his TV back against a KRP500 when it comes in.

Hardly fair?

Thanks as ever and STB thank's for your kind mention - we are all doing our best!

ATB,

John Mc

CrowdedHouse

johnmc wrote: »

I also note that GB has not posted that we have agreed to take his TV back against a KRP500 when it comes in.


John Mc

Actually he has in the post before this one.......

swoofer

This is for richer sounds and was in the email I sent to John today

"Many thanks for taken the trouble to reply to what may be a number of similar emails. I have gone back and reviewed my research and I can honestly say it was my OWN FAULT I actually thought that LX5090 was MPEG4 and that Limerick was actually selling the H model!! "

And the service from Belfast was first class. So when I did the original post I had thought that I should have got an LX5090 with mpeg4.

So I hope that clears everything up. Its very hard to sit back and wait and wait until the service is actually up and running and this is caused by the poor analogue picture quality and most of all the indignity of having to pay a TV licence and a sky sub to get a better picture.

So I rushed in and made a blunder.

If RTE switch back to MPEG2 .......


So that should be sorted now.

gbcullen

Richersounds.ie: John

Completely sorted, Thanks a million!

Again as myself & STB keeps saying what we really need is a decent public awareness campaign to avoid screw-ups like this.

Thanks again GB and hope to chat soon,

ATB,

John Mc