Does this mean I am not the only one?

EastWallGirl

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/over-30-and-underwhelmed-then-youre-having-a-thrisis-1707332.html

Sound Familiar:

All through your teens and 20s you're working towards something and there's this sense of delayed gratification -- I'll work hard now and I'll get into university and I'll work at Uni and I'll get a job and I'll work at this job and get a better job and you get to your 30s and you go, where's the pay-off? The gratification that you've been expecting for years doesn't come or when the reward comes it's not satisfying. I really did think, is this all there is?"

Let me know!

Beruthiel

Not a PI.
Moved to Humanities.

allabouteve

There's an old saying that hard work is its own reward, and there's truth in it. Even the satisfaction you get from unpaid work makes you more fulfilled in what you do.

I think the issue here is expectation, not the lack of payoff. What we should be asking ourselves is whether or not the many smaller satisfactions of doing a job well, achievement for its own sake, is the payoff, or some mystical moment in ''The Future'' where we have no worries and problems because we've somehow convinced ourselves that the here and now isn't where we're living, but where we're merely striving.

EastWallGirl

Thanks AAE

It is actaully a personal problem at the moment, I have always been the one to take the job over the money for the experience for where it can lead and I am dumbfounded how it does not lead anywhere.

I always though if you worked hard you would be rewarded, and not just financially.

I have come to the conclusion that business/office is nonsense and I am trying to get into teaching, I am trying my hand at volunteer work to get some experience.

The thing is because professionally, nothing seems to have 'come off', I just wonder if it is all a dead end.

ntlbell

You seem to have a bit of a strange outlook on life.

or maybe it's a normal one and I'm strange.

There's no rules there's no guarantee's there's no manual.

But if your constantly looking toward the next thing how are you ever going to enjoy where you have/are now?

Society seems to be full of

When I get out of school i'll be happy

when i get out of college i'll be happy

when i get the great job i'll be happy

when i get a house i'll be happy

when i get a car i'll be happy and on and on and on and on

The main isssue is people are doing what they're told by everyone else is what they should be doing and how they should feel and blah blah blah and then sit back and wonder why they're not "rewarded" "happy" "content" it's never enough because they're always chasing something that means f all.

You're taken a step in the right direction in starting to question what's going on but if you continue waiting on some *thing* to reward you I think you'll be left waiting..

scanlas

The "Power of Now" discusses this phenomenon of people resisting the here and now. I had an epiphany when I read this book. My constant worrying seemed to just vanish.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Is this forum just a dumping ground or something ?

EastWallGirl

Do you think I have a strange outlook? Hmmm

What I was trying to say is that you are told that if you work hard learn your job, etc etc that your good work will be noticed and rewarded. I never expected a miracle of being discovered on the first day of work and I do not think that expectation is exceptional in anyway.

I have never wanted the mansion, the fast cars etc.

I fund in my last job, I was very underwhelmed of the importance of it and of the brilliance of the people I worked with, I just oculd not help thinking it was not that important and from there it is very hard to become motivated.

Try something new. I switched from Credit Control in Ireland/Oz to teaching English to small children in China. It gave me a different perspective on employment, and what i wanted to actually do. Now i know i never want to do credit control/debt recovery ever again, and I'm going back to college to get more formal teaching skills.

When we're in our 20's we can go through the working day doing jobs which we don't particularly enjoy, but when we reach 30 we start to wonder is this all there is? Some people are lucky to find jobs which they actually love. Good for them. Unfortunately many others (like me) fell into a sector after college, and didn't think to change.

I highly recommend taking a year out to try other things. To explore work which you were interested in before, but never had the time for before.

Frankly its just not worth it, to spend your time in a job you get no fulfillment from.

Latchy

ntlbell wrote: »

There's no rules there's no guarantee's there's no manual.

Re - life .This is very true .

the_syco

Alan Rouge wrote: »

Is this forum just a dumping ground or something ?

Not a PI, but well thought out, i goes here. Not well thought out, it goes to AH. So yes, it would seem so.

=-=

Agree with ntlbell: do something, finish it, you're happy. Work hard for something, well hun, that something may never come, and if it does, you may not know it, as you're busy working.

EastWallGirl

Deleted User wrote: »

Try something new. I switched from Credit Control in Ireland/Oz to teaching English to small children in China. It gave me a different perspective on employment, and what i wanted to actually do. Now i know i never want to do credit control/debt recovery ever again, and I'm going back to college to get more formal teaching skills.

When we're in our 20's we can go through the working day doing jobs which we don't particularly enjoy, but when we reach 30 we start to wonder is this all there is? Some people are lucky to find jobs which they actually love. Good for them. Unfortunately many others (like me) fell into a sector after college, and didn't think to change.

I highly recommend taking a year out to try other things. To explore work which you were interested in before, but never had the time for before.


Frankly its just not worth it, to spend your time in a job you get no fulfillment from.

That is spooky, I am actually doing CELTA at the moment..and I used to do accounts. The thing is that may not be easy to do if you have financial restrictions.

It is just that I cannot buy into the BS anymore and I think the last 6 months have revealed that those people who are in charge and meant to know something...actually don't.

What really irritates me, is that I was 6 months off a degree when I was 21 and I left to get a job etc and now everything wants this piece of paper, but i ahve never really notices a difference in brains between those with and those without.

EastWallGirl

EastWallGirl wrote: »

That is spooky, I am actually doing CELTA at the moment..and I used to do accounts. The thing is that may not be easy to do if you have financial restrictions.

It is just that I cannot buy into the BS anymore and I think the last 6 months have revealed that those people who are in charge and meant to know something...actually don't.

What really irritates me, is that I was 6 months off a degree when I was 21 and I left to get a job etc and now everything wants this piece of paper, but i ahve never really notices a difference in brains between those with and those without.

I know the feeling. haha... I also didn't finish my college course to degree level. After 3 years, I just wanted to work. But after working for the last two years abroad I realised just how important that little piece of paper is.

You can get plenty of work without it. But its always going to be the lower end of the pay bracket, unless you get really lucky with your employers.

As for money, I came back to Ireland to pay off some debts to my parents & the banks, since they were looking after my house while I was abroad. But if you don't have any major debt here, I would highly recommend heading off to China. There are still plenty of teaching positions with fairly decent pay rates, and its extremely cheap to live well. Just save a bit more than you usually would while over there.

ntlbell

EastWallGirl wrote: »

Do you think I have a strange outlook? Hmmm

What I was trying to say is that you are told that if you work hard learn your job, etc etc that your good work will be noticed and rewarded. I never expected a miracle of being discovered on the first day of work and I do not think that expectation is exceptional in anyway.

I have never wanted the mansion, the fast cars etc.

I fund in my last job, I was very underwhelmed of the importance of it and of the brilliance of the people I worked with, I just oculd not help thinking it was not that important and from there it is very hard to become motivated.

The majority of places I've worked in if your banging the right person you get noticed and rewarded :rolleyes::D

Most jobs are not important, most people go in like a robot do what they have to do and get out as quick as they can.

It's all about what you want from work. I don't work hard to be noticed I work hard because I'm doing the job I always wanted to do and I enjoy it.

I get paid enough to lead the lifestyle I want to live and I found a job that's not a chore.

I guess it's about finding what motivates you to do well and find a match

not find a job and try and get motivated about it but everyones ideal's will be different

AARRRGH

The problem is you are trying to find happiness through work.

EastWallGirl

I suppose you are right, but as you spend 8 hours a day there, I think you do need to enjoy it.

I must say I love the CELTA and the teaching to think, I wanted to teach and do an Arts degree at 15 but it was the same old rant 'Arts wont get you anywhere'. It is kind of ironic that I did know my mind at that age.

I was good at accounting and all the associated sibjects but not good at the BS I suppose. The stuff I saw in the last place was crazy and I only lasted 6 months.

Thanks Klaz, due to a dog, we cannot go far (I love China) so we are going to Italy to give it a whirl.

Thanks guys, a friend calls it stifled creativity which I think is also true to a certain extent.

The thing is my personal life is fine, my husband is my best friend and there is no bull****. On further thought I know Maslow's hierarchy of needs is kind of discounted, we in the west seem to be chasing our tail with self actualisation because all the other stuff is 'done' if you know what I mean. I think to as a certian elite have literally wiped the economy out (while still having all the opportunities) at the moement there is not the luxury of quitting your job or trying something dfferent.

Red Sleeping Beauty

AARRRGH wrote: »

The problem is you are trying to find happiness through work.

That's where most people everyone does it wrong.

AARRRGH

AARRRGH wrote: »

The problem is you are trying to find happiness through work.

Considering its something most of us spend quite a large amount of our time doing, don't you think its best to find happiness in your work? Sure, if you're getting paid plenty for a small time investment, you could be fine not enjoying your job.... But if you're like the rest of us, you'll spend a rather large portion of your life pre-60 working. Having a job that you enjoy and gain some manner of self-respect from, will give your life more meaning and satisfaction.

While its unlikely that anyone has a job they enjoy 100% of the time, if you can find a job that you enjoy most of the time, the rest of your life will follow suit.

EastWallGirl

EastWallGirl wrote: »

Thanks Klaz, due to a dog, we cannot go far (I love China) so we are going to Italy to give it a whirl.

Not sure what the restrictions are for bringing in a dog into China, but I can't imagine they're too difficult. In the apartment complex I stayed in Xi'an, most families had a dog or two. Never thought of the Chinese as being dog lovers (Yes, I've heard all the dog eating jokes), but they really do adore them. Probably down to the one child policy.

Italy would be lovely though, although you're still facing the same economic restrictions as the rest of Europe. I liked China because it was genuinely cheap to live there, and still have a wonderful standard of living. It also helped that Chinese kids were so cute, and fun to teach. Getting your employer to stick to the contract was next to impossible though, so Italy would probably be easier in that regard.

scanlas

I think it's very important you enjoy your job but you shouldn't get your self respect from it, you should have self respect regardless. You often see people have a breakdown when they lose their job, having self respect tied up in the job can cause the breakdown.

ntlbell

Deleted User wrote: »

Considering its something most of us spend quite a large amount of our time doing, don't you think its best to find happiness in your work? Sure, if you're getting paid plenty for a small time investment, you could be fine not enjoying your job.... But if you're like the rest of us, you'll spend a rather large portion of your life pre-60 working. Having a job that you enjoy and gain some manner of self-respect from, will give your life more meaning and satisfaction.

While its unlikely that anyone has a job they enjoy 100% of the time, if you can find a job that you enjoy most of the time, the rest of your life will follow suit.

There's a big difference in finding a job that you enjoy or find interesting and depending on it for your "happiness" i hate using that word.

finding a job you enjoy does not mean the rest of your life will follow suit, it's just not that simple.

If you're looking to work/rewards/recognition/power for happiness then there is something else missing.

When you "fix" "address" that and become a more "content" person you will lead a more meaningful "happier" life.

ntlbell

ntlbell wrote: »

There's a big difference in finding a job that you enjoy or find interesting and depending on it for your "happiness" i hate using that word.

I'm not suggesting that people should depend on the job to give them "Happiness" or self respect. But I do think that having a job that helps those aspects of your life are very important.

finding a job you enjoy does not mean the rest of your life will follow suit, it's just not that simple.

Well from my experience it does actually follow suit. I used to work primarily in Credit Control, and generally felt uncomfortable with my line of work. Having people lie to me on a daily basis didn't generate much positivity during my work hours, and gave me a skewed perception of people. Then I left that area, and entered into Risk Management and certain aspects of law. I found that I really enjoyed the work I was given, and because of that my working hours were more enjoyable. I woke up in the morning with an interest in going to work, rather than resenting its intrusion in my life.

Because of the change in my working day, I was more positive about my own life, and that came across in interactions with other people. Many people remarked on the change in my personality and lifestyle, and marked it as a totally positive change.

Its true that having a job you enjoy will not automatically make your life better. But I guarantee that having a job you hate, will not give you better results in your life. Doesn't it make sense to find work that you enjoy?

If you're looking to work/rewards/recognition/power for happiness then there is something else missing.

Actually I think once you find a job where management recognises good work, and thanks you for it, it can have a wonderful effect on a persons happiness. I worked for 6 companies in Ireland before I went to Australia. None of them ever really remarked on my performance, except when it was a negative value. In Australia on the other hand, I was complimented when I worked hard, and achieved my goals/targets. Those compliments or thanks, gave me a boost which I still remember fondly, and counts towards memories which encourage my self-confidence in work.

Work is such a large part of our lives, that we can't avoid looking for some manner of acknowledgment for hard work. And when we do receive it, it will mean quite a bit.

When you "fix" "address" that and become a more "content" person you will lead a more meaningful "happier" life.

Sure.. sounds good. But i can't see how you're going to achieve happiness while being miserable in work.

ntlbell

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not suggesting that people should depend on the job to give them "Happiness" or self respect. But I do think that having a job that helps those aspects of your life are very important.

It depends on your starting point. If you *need* it your putting conditions on your "happiness" if these don't exist in the first place then the job will be irrelevant.

Deleted User wrote: »

Well from my experience it does actually follow suit. I used to work primarily in Credit Control, and generally felt uncomfortable with my line of work. Having people lie to me on a daily basis didn't generate much positivity during my work hours, and gave me a skewed perception of people. Then I left that area, and entered into Risk Management and certain aspects of law. I found that I really enjoyed the work I was given, and because of that my working hours were more enjoyable. I woke up in the morning with an interest in going to work, rather than resenting its intrusion in my life.

People telling lies didn't cause you to be "unhappy" how you decided to react to those lies did, you chose to see this in a negative way and that's the affect they have. it's another condition we can't control what other people do or say what we can do is control how we react to it and let it affect us.

Deleted User wrote: »

Because of the change in my working day, I was more positive about my own life, and that came across in interactions with other people. Many people remarked on the change in my personality and lifestyle, and marked it as a totally positive change.

The point I was trying to make is for example lets say you find that great job now your happy, now your best friend start telling you lies, this makes you unhappy so your job might be great now you have another problem and the condition you have is you don't like people lying this affects you in a negative way because of the set down conditions you have on what makes you happy, your great job can't stop what's happening now outside of work. "happiness" is not a place it's not a time it's not a "state" in work out of work on holidays if you keep putting the "conditions" down and reacting negatively your "happiness" is always at "risk"

Deleted User wrote: »

Its true that having a job you enjoy will not automatically make your life better. But I guarantee that having a job you hate, will not give you better results in your life. Doesn't it make sense to find work that you enjoy?

Of course it does, I never said it wouldn't.

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually I think once you find a job where management recognises good work, and thanks you for it, it can have a wonderful effect on a persons happiness. I worked for 6 companies in Ireland before I went to Australia. None of them ever really remarked on my performance, except when it was a negative value. In Australia on the other hand, I was complimented when I worked hard, and achieved my goals/targets. Those compliments or thanks, gave me a boost which I still remember fondly, and counts towards memories which encourage my self-confidence in work.

If you need to be patted on the back all the time and need to be told what a great job your doing then I suppose it will make your working day better, but if i needed that sort of reaction from a manager I would be more inclined to wonder why do I require that to make me happy, why am i depending on some basically random person who has no real baring on my life to say "good job" I know when I do a good job and thats enough.

Deleted User wrote: »

Work is such a large part of our lives, that we can't avoid looking for some manner of acknowledgment for hard work. And when we do receive it, it will mean quite a bit.

If you need to receive it will again I'd be asking myself why do I need that? why am I depending on someone else to provide something to make feel good "happy" "wanted" "needed" I understand kids need some encouragment in school etc but I think grown adults could do without been patted on the back for doing something they were actually paid to it.

I'd find it a bit condesending myself

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure.. sounds good. But i can't see how you're going to achieve happiness while being miserable in work.

Depends on your circumstances, but the first part would be to look at what's making you miserable, is it your colleagues? what are they doing? why am i reacting to what they do so negativley? the boss goes tough on me? why do i take that in a negative way? or you could always do something else.

work doesn't make people miserable they're reaction to it does the conditions they set down

people should be nice, I should bet pats on the back for doing a good job instead of being ignored etc

if you put down the conditions that you can't control and they're not met then the problem is not with the people not meeting them it's you for creating them.

Jesus, I talk some rubbish.

ntlbell

ntlbell wrote: »

It depends on your starting point. If you *need* it your putting conditions on your "happiness" if these don't exist in the first place then the job will be irrelevant.

well, I figure if the basis for happiness wasn't there outside of work, then people are likely to compensate by primarily seeking happiness in work. Hardly healthy, but there are worse ways to satisfy yourself.

People telling lies didn't cause you to be "unhappy" how you decided to react to those lies did, you chose to see this in a negative way and that's the affect they have. it's another condition we can't control what other people do or say what we can do is control how we react to it and let it affect us.

Have you ever done credit control? Or any form of cold calling for sales? Do you know what credit control entails? Otherwise, you really don't have a clue what you're talking about. Of course, its how I reacted to the type of work... and most people who have been in this industry stop by the time they reach thirty. Very few can stick it longer, unless they become a senior credit controller, which actually has very little actual calling involved. I think the term many businessmen use when talking about this sector is "soul destroying"..

The point I was trying to make is for example lets say you find that great job now your happy, now your best friend start telling you lies, this makes you unhappy so your job might be great now you have another problem and the condition you have is you don't like people lying this affects you in a negative way because of the set down conditions you have on what makes you happy, your great job can't stop what's happening now outside of work.

Honestly... could you have made this example more difficult to read?

So, let me see if i got this right... I have got a great job, but my friend starts lying to me. And... because I hate lying... I have a problem with his lying, and it affects me in a negative way. And my great job can't help me?

Why should my pleasure/happiness from work help such a situation? Sounds silly... [If I understood you correctly?]

"happiness" is not a place it's not a time it's not a "state" in work out of work on holidays if you keep putting the "conditions" down and reacting negatively your "happiness" is always at "risk"

Ok, you've kinda stated what happiness isn't.. So to you what is happiness?

Of course it does, I never said it wouldn't.

hmm... you're getting me a bit confused here. So you do agree that finding a job you enjoy is important? Is it just the condition that the person should hinge their happiness in working.. on work?

If you need to be patted on the back all the time and need to be told what a great job your doing then I suppose it will make your working day better, but if i needed that sort of reaction from a manager I would be more inclined to wonder why do I require that to make me happy, why am i depending on some basically random person who has no real baring on my life to say "good job" I know when I do a good job and thats enough.

All the time? Where did i even suggest that? You don't believe that positive encouragement from your manager is useful for increasing a persons confidence in the workplace? When someone is working at least 40 hours a week in an office cubicle, you don't think you might like some outside encouragement as a reminder that they like what you're doing?

If you need to receive it will again I'd be asking myself why do I need that? why am I depending on someone else to provide something to make feel good "happy" "wanted" "needed" I understand kids need some encouragment in school etc but I think grown adults could do without been patted on the back for doing something they were actually paid to it.

I'd find it a bit condesending myself

Out of curiosity, what work do you do? Are you in college, by any chance? You talk about adults and working as if they're abstract things.

Depends on your circumstances, but the first part would be to look at what's making you miserable, is it your colleagues? what are they doing? why am i reacting to what they do so negativley? the boss goes tough on me? why do i take that in a negative way? or you could always do something else.

work doesn't make people miserable they're reaction to it does the conditions they set down

people should be nice, I should bet pats on the back for doing a good job instead of being ignored etc

if you put down the conditions that you can't control and they're not met then the problem is not with the people not meeting them it's you for creating them.

Answer me this then... which is more realistic for the majority of people out there.

1) Spend some serious time looking at themselves, and their lives, and then change their thought processes (cause at this stage in their lives, their expectations, and notions from the previous years will be fairly cemented), to suit a job they don't like. (for whatever reason that is)

or

2) Find a job they gain some measure of happiness, and self-respect from.

I go with no. 2, since most people strenuously avoid looking at themselves and their lives.. And would likely waste away time asking why should they change anything? after all, the world should be suiting them, not the other way around. :rolleyes:

Jesus, I talk some rubbish.

Well, If you haven't had much experience working, then most definitely, yes.

ntlbell

the post wasn't aimed at you personally maybe i should have worded it better.

It has nothing to do with credit control or your personal circumstances it's a general comments on "one" reacts to work or life etc.

but i'll answer your questions spereatly

ntlbell

ntlbell wrote: »

the post wasn't aimed at you personally maybe i should have worded it better.

You quoted me. And answered to those quotes. Who do you think would answer? Seems obvious.

It has nothing to do with credit control or your personal circumstances it's a general comments on "one" reacts to work or life etc.

Its relevant to a persons experiences of working. The OP spoke of working in an office environment, as have I. I gave my own example of credit control, which you chose to respond to. My suggestion is that if you wish to speak in very general terms about happiness or working attitudes, you don't quote a persons post, but put your thoughts/opinions into an individual post.

ntlbell

Deleted User wrote: »

well, I figure if the basis for happiness wasn't there outside of work, then people are likely to compensate by primarily seeking happiness in work. Hardly healthy, but there are worse ways to satisfy yourself.

The point is it won't satisfy your happiness, the fact there's worse ways is irrelevant.

Deleted User wrote: »

Have you ever done credit control? Or any form of cold calling for sales? Do you know what credit control entails? Otherwise, you really don't have a clue what you're talking about. Of course, its how I reacted to the type of work... and most people who have been in this industry stop by the time they reach thirty. Very few can stick it longer, unless they become a senior credit controller, which actually has very little actual calling involved. I think the term many businessmen use when talking about this sector is "soul destroying"..

Again your concentrating on YOUR particular job i'm discussing work in general. I don't need to know anything about the job. the point i'm trying to make is lets your job is ringing companies all day trying to get money in and you hearing story after story lies and more lies etc etc "one" pushes the blame of how they're feeling and their day is being made hard by these "people" but it's not the person on the other end of the phone, it's how "one" chooses to react to the person. the job in itself is not soul destroying your way of looking at it/ractition to it is.

Deleted User wrote: »

Honestly... could you have made this example more difficult to read?

So, let me see if i got this right... I have got a great job, but my friend starts lying to me. And... because I hate lying... I have a problem with his lying, and it affects me in a negative way. And my great job can't help me?

Why should my pleasure/happiness from work help such a situation? Sounds silly... [If I understood you correctly?]

No, if you (read you as anyone) keep putting conditions on thier "happiness" then everytime those conditions are not met it will affect their happiness when these conditions are anything that's outside of your own control then your counting on something you have no control over. (this is not related to work it's relating to everything)

Deleted User wrote: »

Ok, you've kinda stated what happiness isn't.. So to you what is happiness?

I don't really like the word happiness as I don't really think it can be defined. but people define what it is to them. for me it's an overall contentness if that's a word, where regardless of where you work, how much you earn where you are in life where your not in life you're always "content" with wherever whatever you are so basically removing the external factors that can infringe on it.

So if you lose your job, your content.
if you get a promotion your content, if you get de-moted your conent
if your renting your content, if your a home owner your content
if your out with all your friends your content.
if your sitting on your own looking at paint dry your content.

you're not blaming anything or anyone or any situation for your currently being "unhappy"

Deleted User wrote: »

hmm... you're getting me a bit confused here. So you do agree that finding a job you enjoy is important? Is it just the condition that the person should hinge their happiness in working.. on work?

It won't really matter if you (read you as anyone) find a job that you enjoy if you still have all the external conditions to depend on to make you happy as you can't control them so anything could change at anytime in that job that doesn't meat these and you'll become "unhappy" i guess it's why the majority keep changing jobs? constantly looking for something that's not "real" blame the job blame the people but in fact it's themselves.

Deleted User wrote: »

All the time? Where did i even suggest that? You don't believe that positive encouragement from your manager is useful for increasing a persons confidence in the workplace? When someone is working at least 40 hours a week in an office cubicle, you don't think you might like some outside encouragement as a reminder that they like what you're doing?

No I don't, because this is sugegsting that you won't be as self confident without it and it's not something you can control, I work because I like what I'm doing I don't work to impress someone else what someone elses feels about what I do has no baring on my confidence or well being.

Deleted User wrote: »

Out of curiosity, what work do you do? Are you in college, by any chance? You talk about adults and working as if they're abstract things.

IT for roughly the last 10 years or so.

Deleted User wrote: »

Answer me this then... which is more realistic for the majority of people out there.

1) Spend some serious time looking at themselves, and their lives, and then change their thought processes (cause at this stage in their lives, their expectations, and notions from the previous years will be fairly cemented), to suit a job they don't like. (for whatever reason that is)

or

2) Find a job they gain some measure of happiness, and self-respect from.

I go with no. 2, since most people strenuously avoid looking at themselves and their lives.. And would likely waste away time asking why should they change anything? after all, the world should be suiting them, not the other way around. :rolleyes:

Of course they avoid looking at themselves and their lives because most are afraid of the answers and will realise they actually have to do something about instead and it's much easier to sit and moan about how everyone else is the cause of their unhapiness than blaming themselvees and fixing the problem.

I thought that would of been fairly obvious.

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, If you haven't had much experience working, then most definitely, yes.

I've spent many years working in various jobs.

ntlbell

Deleted User wrote: »

You quoted me. And answered to those quotes. Who do you think would answer? Seems obvious.



Its relevant to a persons experiences of working. The OP spoke of working in an office environment, as have I. I gave my own example of credit control, which you chose to respond to. My suggestion is that if you wish to speak in very general terms about happiness or working attitudes, you don't quote a persons post, but put your thoughts/opinions into an individual post.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind in future.

ntlbell

ntlbell wrote: »

Again your concentrating on YOUR particular job i'm discussing work in general. I don't need to know anything about the job. the point i'm trying to make is lets your job is ringing companies all day trying to get money in and you hearing story after story lies and more lies etc etc "one" pushes the blame of how they're feeling and their day is being made hard by these "people" but it's not the person on the other end of the phone, it's how "one" chooses to react to the person. the job in itself is not soul destroying your way of looking at it/ractition to it is.

And I'm talking about my previous job, because that is the example I gave, and the one that you responded to. When you use CC as an example to further your opinion, then you do need to understand the practicalities of the job, and how they affect your emotional disposition.

If you want to talk about a general way, then you provide a general example.

No, if you (read you as anyone) keep putting conditions on thier "happiness" then everytime those conditions are not met it will affect their happiness when these conditions are anything that's outside of your own control then your counting on something you have no control over. (this is not related to work it's relating to everything)

Man, your writing style makes my head spin... So you're basically saying that people should be happy regardless of internal or external influences. Which is nigh on impossible, since people by their very nature place limitations upon themselves, and will also place limitations on where their happiness will come from.

I don't really like the word happiness as I don't really think it can be defined. but people define what it is to them.

It can't be defined, but people define it? right. Pick another word then. Happiness was something that someone else introduced. I'm more inclined towards self-respect, & contentment.

for me it's an overall contentness if that's a word, where regardless of where you work, how much you earn where you are in life where your not in life you're always "content" with wherever whatever you are so basically removing the external factors that can infringe on it.

Ahh, good. We're getting onto the same wavelength. I prefer contentment when it comes to work.

Sounds good what you're describing, but I think thats pretty much impossible for the majority of people out there. Maybe if you have spent time studying Zen Buddhism, or are heavily involved with meditation, you might be able to keep your contentment or "soul" apart, but I don't think most people with their existing skills are capable of it.

So if you lose your job, your content.
if you get a promotion your content, if you get de-moted your conent
if your renting your content, if your a home owner your content
if your out with all your friends your content.
if your sitting on your own looking at paint dry your content.

So, you're always content... You sound like a Vulcan.. Your lack of emotion is more scary than anything else I have heard in this thread.

If you really are capable of this, then you're likely going to be content, regardless of what I say, but i'd highly recommend that you get a mental health checkup.

you're not blaming anything or anyone or any situation for your currently being "unhappy"

I'm a believer in 100% responsibility. If I'm unhappy, its because I'm making myself unhappy. I'm encouraging a certain environment to exist around myself to boost negative emotions. So it is my responsibility to change the environment around me to promote a better lifestyle or working life.

The difference between us, is that I acknowledge the effects of external influences over our emotions. You view the answer as being completely internal. While I do agree to a certain degree, I don't think that people can change enough where your system comes into being.

Its more efficient to set up the environment both personal & working to promote a better lifestyle.

It won't really matter if you (read you as anyone) find a job that you enjoy if you still have all the external conditions to depend on to make you happy as you can't control them so anything could change at anytime in that job that doesn't meat these and you'll become "unhappy" i guess it's why the majority keep changing jobs? constantly looking for something that's not "real" blame the job blame the people but in fact it's themselves.

I can't honestly say that they are wrong... except that maybe they're not looking outside of what they think they should be doing, as opposed to what they want to be doing. There is a rather large social pressure to stick to certain kind of jobs once you start. A hierarchy of sorts, and to step downwards is unthinkable. Even if it makes that person feel better overall.

No I don't, because this is sugegsting that you won't be as self confident without it and it's not something you can control, I work because I like what I'm doing I don't work to impress someone else what someone elses feels about what I do has no baring on my confidence or well being.

Why does it suggest that? Why should a manager complimenting you have such a negative effect on you? What you describe goes against the majority of managerial theory in use in business for at least the last 4 decades...

What you describe is cutting yourself off from the world, and frankly I find that to be more unhealthy than looking to seek contentment from work. Your only approval is internal, your confidence is internal, your contentment is internal.. By your reasoning, you might as well advocate having all pleasure as being internal as well, and being isolated completely from other humans...

IT for roughly the last 10 years or so.

Really? What form of IT? Have you worked primarily alone or for companies in a team environment?

Of course they avoid looking at themselves and their lives because most are afraid of the answers and will realise they actually have to do something about instead and it's much easier to sit and moan about how everyone else is the cause of their unhapiness than blaming themselvees and fixing the problem.

I thought that would of been fairly obvious.

So... what you're advocating is unlikely for the majority of people to implement...?

Are you this isolated from external influence, which your posts promote?

ntlbell

Deleted User wrote: »

And I'm talking about my previous job, because that is the example I gave, and the one that you responded to. When you use CC as an example to further your opinion, then you do need to understand the practicalities of the job, and how they affect your emotional disposition.

If you want to talk about a general way, then you provide a general example.

Maybe I should have and it's a bad habbit I need to get out of, other posters have commented on it also. noted

Deleted User wrote: »

Man, your writing style makes my head spin... So you're basically saying that people should be happy regardless of internal or external influences. Which is nigh on impossible, since people by their very nature place limitations upon themselves, and will also place limitations on where their happiness will come from.

Nope, it's not a switch, but you should try to avoid relying on external influences that you have no control over. an example is the weather.

If you require it to be sunny and get "unhappy" because it rains you're letting an external influence that you have no control over determine your state of "well being" "happiness" etc but if you change how you react to bad weather/good weather/average weather and don't rely on it, then what difference does it make what the weather's like?

Deleted User wrote: »

It can't be defined, but people define it? right. Pick another word then. Happiness was something that someone else introduced. I'm more inclined towards self-respect, & contentment.

I personally don't think it can be defined but people try and define it based on what they "think" it might mean based on their culture be it familiy or otherwise or how they were thought to link happiness, so it's a very hard thing to define, I tried my best to link it to what I think it is.

Deleted User wrote: »

Ahh, good. We're getting onto the same wavelength. I prefer contentment when it comes to work.

Sounds good what you're describing, but I think thats pretty much impossible for the majority of people out there. Maybe if you have spent time studying Zen Buddhism, or are heavily involved with meditation, you might be able to keep your contentment or "soul" apart, but I don't think most people with their existing skills are capable of it.

I don't know much about keeping your "soul" separate apart I'm not very religious, but regarding contentment if you don't take the time to as you said earlier question yourself and the reasons why you'll never find an "answer" hence never building any "skills"

Deleted User wrote: »

So, you're always content... You sound like a Vulcan.. Your lack of emotion is more scary than anything else I have heard in this thread.

If you really are capable of this, then you're likely going to be content, regardless of what I say, but i'd highly recommend that you get a mental health checkup.

Of course I'm not always content, that's not the question you asked, you asked me to define what I thought "happiness" was and when I answer you suggest I see mental health practicioner...ok...

It's not about trying to not feel the emotion, it's trying to get a better understanding of it, if you get a better understanding of the why you won't get as "angry" "frustrated" or have negative feelings towards it.

If someone's boss is having a bad day he comes to the office the first person he happens to see is you, you have been working well all week he starts going off on one.

Instead of thinking "I wonder why he's in a bad mood today, maybe I should offer to make him a cup of tea" lolz?

it goes more like

"did you see that c*nt this morning going off on one i mean who does he think he is i'm working my balls off all week and he's shouting the odds at me he can go f*ck himself the next time he's looking for a lift home/favour"

Then you go home and your talking to your partner/flat mate and we start to throw all the negativit of OUR day on them and start depressing them with your horror story and how much of a w*nker your boss is.

Great, now your boss has pissed you off, your partner off/your flate mate/mother and he's ruining your evening dinner!

forgetting the boss for a minute. for the person in the situation for their day to go a lot more smoother what's the best response?

it's the raction to the situation that makes for the "bad" day not the situation itself.

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm a believer in 100% responsibility. If I'm unhappy, its because I'm making myself unhappy. I'm encouraging a certain environment to exist around myself to boost negative emotions. So it is my responsibility to change the environment around me to promote a better lifestyle or working life.

wow, you don't hear that very often :P

Deleted User wrote: »

The difference between us, is that I acknowledge the effects of external influences over our emotions. You view the answer as being completely internal. While I do agree to a certain degree, I don't think that people can change enough where your system comes into being.

Its more efficient to set up the environment both personal & working to promote a better lifestyle.

Again it's not about ignoring them, it's about not depending on them, goes back to the point i made on the weather, change weather for just about anything and it's the same result.

Deleted User wrote: »

I can't honestly say that they are wrong... except that maybe they're not looking outside of what they think they should be doing, as opposed to what they want to be doing. There is a rather large social pressure to stick to certain kind of jobs once you start. A hierarchy of sorts, and to step downwards is unthinkable. Even if it makes that person feel better overall.

but it's up to you I and everyone else how we react to the social preasure.
Who in that social preasure really matters? what's more important submitting to social preasures or doing what you want to do?

People drop out of careers and go on to do bigger and better things all the time, people go back to college and do what they really want when they find out what that is all the time.

Deleted User wrote: »

Why does it suggest that? Why should a manager complimenting you have such a negative effect on you? What you describe goes against the majority of managerial theory in use in business for at least the last 4 decades...

It's not that it has a negative affect it's that I don't need to be patted on the back, it may go against theory because most people's lives lack so much that they require that emotional comfort from practically a stranger to "feel good" about what they're doing.

Most people I know complain about the poor managment in this country maybe they should stop reading standard practices and deal with each person situation differently?

My manager understand we're working in a very profesional enviroment dealing with mostly people 30+ earning very good money to do the job required, maybe if he was working in a different enviroment he would judge the people he was working with realise these people need to be encouraged and encourage them.

I just don't happen to need that and no I work with does.

I'm not saying encourgaing people is wrong, I'm saying people shouldn't need to be nor do they need to be criticed constantly good managment gadge their staff and act accordingly they don't read "how to reward employees and encourage people"

Deleted User wrote: »

What you describe is cutting yourself off from the world, and frankly I find that to be more unhealthy than looking to seek contentment from work. Your only approval is internal, your confidence is internal, your contentment is internal.. By your reasoning, you might as well advocate having all pleasure as being internal as well, and being isolated completely from other humans...

Not at all. I wouldn't be in a relationship, I wouldn't have friends, I wouldn't have kids if i wanted to cut myself off from the world, it has nothing to do with it.

When I put my daughter to bed read her a story and watch her fall asleep safely I know I'm doing the best I can I don't need to walk down stairs and have my partner tell me what a great dad I am, I won't get unhappy if she doesn't say it all the time. It has nothing to do with cutting yourself off from the world it's about not *needing* to rely on external influences that you have no control over to make you "happy" "content"

Deleted User wrote: »

Really? What form of IT? Have you worked primarily alone or for companies in a team environment?

I've worked alone, I've worked in teams, I've worked with the public, I've managed. I've worked for myself.

Deleted User wrote: »

So... what you're advocating is unlikely for the majority of people to implement...?

Are you this isolated from external influence, which your posts promote?

I'm not really advocating anything .I don't think it's unlikley they CAN impliment to start taking personal responibility for their "happiness" and to stop blaming everything around them bar themselves ( i know you don't)

Do i think it's unlikley suddenly people will? of course.

scanlas

Happiness is kind of abstract.

I like to look at it as you either feel good or you don't feel good.

In any given moment you do have the ability to feel good by meditating except when you are being eaten by a shark etc.

I think your mindset comes first for feeling good and on top of that you can strive for to achieve goals to bring more and better good feelings.

As an example my mindset is;

I am no better or worse than any person, creature or thing.

I am not my mind, my mind is a tool I use, being right or wrong does not make me a better or worse person.

I am the life in my body, not the thoughts I think.

I am not the role I participate in any given moment, it is merely a role in which I take part in in that moment.

The only time that exist is here and now. In 10 minutes time I will still be in the here and now. If I'm not content here and now i probably never will be.

I do not identify with the emotions in my body at any given moment, ie I have a feeling of depression in my body caused by chemicals but I'm ok with that, not I'm depressed.

I take responsility for my life.


Then after you have your mindset you are ready to do and achieve the things you want to.

the_syco

Deleted User wrote: »

Never thought of the Chinese as being dog lovers (Yes, I've heard all the dog eating jokes), but they really do adore them. Probably down to the one child policy.

People in north China are meant to like dogs.

=-=

Also agree with most of what ntlbell said.

ntlbell

ntlbell wrote: »

Maybe I should have and it's a bad habbit I need to get out of, other posters have commented on it also. noted

No worries.

Nope, it's not a switch, but you should try to avoid relying on external influences that you have no control over. an example is the weather.

But you have control over many external influences. Your working environment, your friends, your eating habits, your reading material, the type of films you watch etc. All of these affect people's emotions and how they seek to perceive the world. If the weather was really such an important issue to someone, I'd recommend moving to a country with more suitable weather. Its not really such a difficult thing to change.

If you require it to be sunny and get "unhappy" because it rains you're letting an external influence that you have no control over determine your state of "well being" "happiness" etc but if you change how you react to bad weather/good weather/average weather and don't rely on it, then what difference does it make what the weather's like?

You're choosing the weather because we have no control over it? For example, Have you been to Australia? Generally people are more positive over there because they see better weather, compared to the Irish people who receive mostly gloomy weather. The changes in weather have been shown to influence peoples emotional dispositions. When its sunny, people have more energy and are happier. It comes down to both a physical & psychological changes.

I personally don't think it can be defined but people try and define it based on what they "think" it might mean based on their culture be it familiy or otherwise or how they were thought to link happiness, so it's a very hard thing to define, I tried my best to link it to what I think it is.

Fair enough.

I don't know much about keeping your "soul" separate apart I'm not very religious, but regarding contentment if you don't take the time to as you said earlier question yourself and the reasons why you'll never find an "answer" hence never building any "skills"

I'm not religious either, and I consider the soul to be part of everyone. After all, we're all unique individuals, and the soul is a pretty good description of that.

I have absolutely no idea of what you're saying here. Can you explain in a different way?

Of course I'm not always content, that's not the question you asked, you asked me to define what I thought "happiness" was and when I answer you suggest I see mental health practicioner...ok...

Nope. You described about contentment, and when a person should feel it. Your description provided that a person should feel like this regardless of external influences. Thus being content all the time. You gave rather comprehensive examples of when to feel content...

And I recommended that you seek mental help if you actually lived your life this way.

It's not about trying to not feel the emotion, it's trying to get a better understanding of it, if you get a better understanding of the why you won't get as "angry" "frustrated" or have negative feelings towards it.

Understanding your emotions will give you better control over the extreme values but it won't stop you from feeling the emotions. Understanding allows you the choice to act immediately or to step back from your emotions and judge a more acceptable (to you) response.

Negative effects will always be there. It is up to the individual to determine a method to turn negative thoughts into positive ones. Most people develop ways of doing this to more or less success. I quite like re-framing myself, and after years of doing it, its pretty automatic at this stage.

If someone's boss is having a bad day he comes to the office the first person he happens to see is you, you have been working well all week he starts going off on one.

Instead of thinking "I wonder why he's in a bad mood today, maybe I should offer to make him a cup of tea" lolz?

it goes more like

"did you see that c*nt this morning going off on one i mean who does he think he is i'm working my balls off all week and he's shouting the odds at me he can go f*ck himself the next time he's looking for a lift home/favour"

Then you go home and your talking to your partner/flat mate and we start to throw all the negativit of OUR day on them and start depressing them with your horror story and how much of a w*nker your boss is.

Great, now your boss has pissed you off, your partner off/your flate mate/mother and he's ruining your evening dinner!

forgetting the boss for a minute. for the person in the situation for their day to go a lot more smoother what's the best response?

it's the raction to the situation that makes for the "bad" day not the situation itself.

Rather extreme example considering we're talking about a basic approval of someones work... Nothing I have posted suggests hero worship of your boss, or basing your entire emotional structure with other peoples actions. How about an example based on your own work performance?

wow, you don't hear that very often :P

depends on how you set up your life. The majority of my friends feel the same way. After living this way for over 5 years, I don't have many friends left who can't think this way. If you want a positive life, surround yourself with positive people. If you want to be negative, you'll have negative type friends...

Again it's not about ignoring them, it's about not depending on them, goes back to the point i made on the weather, change weather for just about anything and it's the same result.

As I said above weather isn't exactly a good example. Perhaps use a work example?

but it's up to you I and everyone else how we react to the social preasure. Who in that social preasure really matters? what's more important submitting to social preasures or doing what you want to do?

People drop out of careers and go on to do bigger and better things all the time, people go back to college and do what they really want when they find out what that is all the time.

Ahh, but I'm the one promoting such a change, remember? I'm the one that believes that you should shape your environment to encourage your own wellbeing. You've been talking about looking within, and not letting external influences from bringing you up or down... So you'd be advocating staying in the career, and continuing because it doesn't affect you.

It's not that it has a negative affect it's that I don't need to be patted on the back, it may go against theory because most people's lives lack so much that they require that emotional comfort from practically a stranger to "feel good" about what they're doing.

A stranger? A stranger to you maybe, since you're advocating cutting yourself off from any connection with your employer. I, on the other hand, would view my manager as been quite familiar, since I'm likely to spend more time with him/her than most people in my personal life (with my exception of my wife).

You don't believe that people should seek approval from their superiors (superiors in a working sense, not by value).. I think that professional approval by managers can bring a sense of value to many people working in modern employment.

Most people I know complain about the poor managment in this country maybe they should stop reading standard practices and deal with each person situation differently?

Huh? Are you talking about the management of the country or management of employees in business?

My manager understand we're working in a very profesional enviroment dealing with mostly people 30+ earning very good money to do the job required, maybe if he was working in a different enviroment he would judge the people he was working with realise these people need to be encouraged and encourage them. I just don't happen to need that and no I work with does

So you work in an IT environment with 30 odd people with one direct manager? You never receive positive or negative comments about the standard of your work? And if you do receive these comments, do they act as a guide to encourage the standard of your work?

And i'm amazed that you don't desire that kind of support...

I'm not saying encourgaing people is wrong, I'm saying people shouldn't need to be nor do they need to be criticed constantly good managment gadge their staff and act accordingly they don't read "how to reward employees and encourage people"

You're not saying that encouraging people is wrong? em, actually, that's how it appears to me.

Not at all. I wouldn't be in a relationship, I wouldn't have friends, I wouldn't have kids if i wanted to cut myself off from the world, it has nothing to do with it.

I guess the problem with your examples then is that they're extreme examples, and thus can be taken to extremes.

When I put my daughter to bed read her a story and watch her fall asleep safely I know I'm doing the best I can I don't need to walk down stairs and have my partner tell me what a great dad I am, I won't get unhappy if she doesn't say it all the time. It has nothing to do with cutting yourself off from the world it's about not *needing* to rely on external influences that you have no control over to make you "happy" "content"

So if your daughter was extremely unhappy with the manner of your parenting, it wouldn't matter because you're content with your own opinions on the subject? right....

I've worked alone, I've worked in teams, I've worked with the public, I've managed. I've worked for myself.

Me too, especially about actually managing other people which is why i find your attitude so odd.

I'm not really advocating anything .I don't think it's unlikley they CAN impliment to start taking personal responibility for their "happiness" and to stop blaming everything around them bar themselves ( i know you don't)

Do i think it's unlikley suddenly people will? of course.

So, where are the practicalities of what you speak about? Are these "pie in the sky" opinions? Are you talking about what you think should be, rather than what is? Do you really live your life in this manner? (I asked before but I couldn't see any answer)

the_syco

the_syco wrote: »

People in north China are meant to like dogs.

Actually its some southern parts of China that eats them. Northern China mostly views the eating habits of the south with contempt. :rolleyes:

Also agree with most of what ntlbell said.

For example?

EastWallGirl

Interesting reading.

Klaz said: adults and working as if they're abstract things. I would have siad they are mutually exclusive, offices are very childish I have always found!!

The dog is 14, it is more about the length of time on the plane more then anything else.

I think if in your job, you are living to work and not working to live then I think that is where it can all go wrong. If you have a job that allows you to have the lifestyle you want, then you can overlook alot.

I have found generally that with jobs that it would seem that Klaz and I have been stuck with, that they are stressful, you stop learning after a while, the job I just had had an element of Credit Control about it and it was uniquely awful I have to say, we need a support group. I found that all I kept thinking was that there was something else I could be doing. I had a great boss and when it all went wrong and were all stressing out he would say STOP we sell jeans not bibles, we will work it out. He was one of my best bosses. I have also found that the places that take themsleves completely seriously are the most stressful wheras those working on a cure for cancer (literally) were really respectful of everyone.

It must be nice ot be never effected by externalities, but I think more people are then not.

ntlbell

Deleted User wrote: »

But you have control over many external influences. Your working environment, your friends, your eating habits, your reading material, the type of films you watch etc. All of these affect people's emotions and how they seek to perceive the world. If the weather was really such an important issue to someone, I'd recommend moving to a country with more suitable weather. Its not really such a difficult thing to change.

I'm a little bit confused because when I read through your posts on one hand you seem to be thinking pretty much what I'm thinking and on the other you don't seem to understand anything I'm saying, So I'll give it one last go .

I'm not talking about what you can control, I'm talking about what you can't control.

The example of the weather as I said you can change weather for any other external influence that you have no control over.

Sure you can change where you live and hope the weather conditions you move to stay the same, or you can change how you react to it, both are equally valid? It's not "my" way or the high way, I get the feeling you think I'm trying to convince you of something, I'm not getting paid to have these opinions if you decide to take on board something I said I don't gain anything or if you choose to ignore it, I lose nothing, I'm not trying to sell you something

Deleted User wrote: »

You're choosing the weather because we have no control over it? For example, Have you been to Australia? Generally people are more positive over there because they see better weather, compared to the Irish people who receive mostly gloomy weather. The changes in weather have been shown to influence peoples emotional dispositions. When its sunny, people have more energy and are happier. It comes down to both a physical & psychological changes.

I'm using the weather as an example of how one can change how they react to something, again sure you can up and move country but you can also change how you REACT and not "depend" on the weather remove the weather of a condition to your "contentment" "happiness" again you can change weather to anything you wish.

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not religious either, and I consider the soul to be part of everyone. After all, we're all unique individuals, and the soul is a pretty good description of that.

"Fair Enough"

Deleted User wrote: »

I have absolutely no idea of what you're saying here. Can you explain in a different way?

You stated without studying buda or some such people don't have the skills, I'm saying the reason they don't have the skills is because they don't try to learn them.

It's like saying "I'm useless I can't build a set of presses" When the truth is you never even picked up the saw/level/hammer/measuring tape

Deleted User wrote: »

Nope. You described about contentment, and when a person should feel it. Your description provided that a person should feel like this regardless of external influences. Thus being content all the time. You gave rather comprehensive examples of when to feel content...

I would of thought much like buddah if you were able to feel content regardless of the situation is what the the buddah views as "enlightment"

To be able to stand at your mothers funeral watch her put into the ground feel sad/cry yet still be capable of feeling content, that's a very powerful tool IMO and not needed to be addressed by a mental health practitioner (I'm not saying I could do this, just an example)

Deleted User wrote: »

And I recommended that you seek mental help if you actually lived your life this way.

Is it not how a vast majority of religious folk try and live their lives? is it not something jesus/god/daila lama etc promote? are they all crack pots?

Deleted User wrote: »

Understanding your emotions will give you better control over the extreme values but it won't stop you from feeling the emotions. Understanding allows you the choice to act immediately or to step back from your emotions and judge a more acceptable (to you) response.

It's not about not feeling them it's about not depending on them, this is part of the concept you seem to be failing to understand.

Deleted User wrote: »

Negative effects will always be there. It is up to the individual to determine a method to turn negative thoughts into positive ones. Most people develop ways of doing this to more or less success. I quite like re-framing myself, and after years of doing it, its pretty automatic at this stage.

Again your chosing to react to them positivley, I think we're in agreement on this?

Deleted User wrote: »

Rather extreme example considering we're talking about a basic approval of someones work... Nothing I have posted suggests hero worship of your boss, or basing your entire emotional structure with other peoples actions. How about an example based on your own work performance?

I think the point your missing in the example and you can change the example sure, but the main point will remain the same, how you choose to react to the situation determines it's effect on you. one will be negative and set your day off and possibly spark off the start to a bad relationship etc where one just offers a hand to seek what might be wrong. i don't think changing the example changes anything you can always choose how you react.

Deleted User wrote: »

depends on how you set up your life. The majority of my friends feel the same way. After living this way for over 5 years, I don't have many friends left who can't think this way. If you want a positive life, surround yourself with positive people. If you want to be negative, you'll have negative type friends...

Sounds like you have a great bunch of friends. kudo's

Deleted User wrote: »

As I said above weather isn't exactly a good example. Perhaps use a work example?

Your teamed up with someone in work you really, really dislike everything about this person drives you up the wall, now you can try and "change" that doesn't happen, you can choose to moan and whine about it everyday how much this person gets you or you can make an effort to try and understand the person, why do they do what they do if i treat them differently will they act differently? why does what the person do annoy me? why am i getting annoyed over what seem to be very small things?

you probably won't be able to change the twof you having to work together but you can change how you react to the situation?

is that a better one?

Deleted User wrote: »

Ahh, but I'm the one promoting such a change, remember? I'm the one that believes that you should shape your environment to encourage your own wellbeing. You've been talking about looking within, and not letting external influences from bringing you up or down... So you'd be advocating staying in the career, and continuing because it doesn't affect you.

I don't try and shape anything I just live and I address each step good or bad as it comes I don't try and restrict my life that's just creating more conditions that might be able to meet causing one to get more frustrated.

It's not about not letting them get you up or down it's about not depending on them to get you up?

If someone says "ntlbell" you're looking well hun

I don't go omg how dare she say something like that, I accept the compliment and I'm sure I'll return in. but I don't need for that to happen I don't depend on it so I feel good about myself, but if it happens, sure it's nice? I don't think your getting that part yet.

Deleted User wrote: »

A stranger? A stranger to you maybe, since you're advocating cutting yourself off from any connection with your employer. I, on the other hand, would view my manager as been quite familiar, since I'm likely to spend more time with him/her than most people in my personal life (with my exception of my wife).

I don't cut any connection to my employer I just don't "need" a "connection" I rarley see my manager we have very little contact with them unless something drastic comes up we're left to get on with the job that's asked of us and we do.

Deleted User wrote: »

You don't believe that people should seek approval from their superiors (superiors in a working sense, not by value).. I think that professional approval by managers can bring a sense of value to many people working in modern employment.

That's fine, I just personally don't do it, I like what I do, I do it for *me* nto for the employer, he just happens to make a lot of money from me enjoying myself.

Deleted User wrote: »

Huh? Are you talking about the management of the country or management of employees in business?

Mangment in buisness yes.

Deleted User wrote: »

So you work in an IT environment with 30 odd people with one direct manager? You never receive positive or negative comments about the standard of your work? And if you do receive these comments, do they act as a guide to encourage the standard of your work?

No lol, We're all 30 or over e.g. not just out of college and very expirienced in what we do and don't need to our ego's massaged

Not really, It's a bit hard to explain but you can't put a "quality" on it.

I'll have X amount of projects to do every 6 - 12 months There's no quality to it they're eithier done or there not no middle ground really. If they're done, you get more $$ and that's about it.

Deleted User wrote: »

And i'm amazed that you don't desire that kind of support...

Why?

Deleted User wrote: »

You're not saying that encouraging people is wrong? em, actually, that's how it appears to me.

Nope I'm not, I'm saying if you *need* it then you need to find out why that is *depending* on it is where the problem is, not the encourgment. again it's the one thing that seems to keep going over your heard continusly but it very well could be I'm not explaining myself very well.

Deleted User wrote: »

I guess the problem with your examples then is that they're extreme examples, and thus can be taken to extremes.

Well substitute the subject matter, the result will always be the same.

Deleted User wrote: »

So if your daughter was extremely unhappy with the manner of your parenting, it wouldn't matter because you're content with your own opinions on the subject? right....

Nope, If my daughter is unhappy I do everything I can to change that, but I don't blame her or put my lack of parenting skills on the blame of my parents or anyone else I would just look at what I was doing wrong and change it not really sure what my contentment has to do with being a parent?

Deleted User wrote: »

Me too, especially about actually managing other people which is why i find your attitude so odd.

Why, what has my "attitude" got to do with how I treat others? I'm a very friendly open manager and always get on well with my staff, trust me you'd love me

Deleted User wrote: »

So, where are the practicalities of what you speak about? Are these "pie in the sky" opinions? Are you talking about what you think should be, rather than what is? Do you really live your life in this manner? (I asked before but I couldn't see any answer)

Live my life in what manner? to try and be content regardless of the situation I find myself in? of course. do i fail all the time? of course, do I blame that on others? never.

I'm not some sort of monk that sits on the top of the mountain for months. I don't have all the answers, I'm not perfect far from it,

there just my opinions and some obversations I've seen over the last 30 years, it's not the gospel of ntl I'm not trying to convince you of anything as i said you're talking to me like i'm selling something that you don't want to buy.

the_syco

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually its some southern parts of China that eats them. Northern China mostly views the eating habits of the south with contempt. :rolleyes:

Well, yeah, that's what I meant. Worded wrongly, me things

Deleted User wrote: »

For example?

I also work in IT, so a lot of what he said rang true in what I've seen. Late now, but will pick some examples tomorrow.

ntlbell

ntlbell wrote: »

I'm not talking about what you can control, I'm talking about what you can't control.

Then I'm not sure why you're disagreeing with me. The point of this whole discussion was in regards to working, and seeking to place yourself in a working environment which promoted positive "happiness", "contentment", or emotions. I feel that because most of people work a large part of their week, they should seek to have that part provide more positive feedback. Relying solely on work for respect or satisfaction is unhealthy, but its quite easy to balance a work lifestyle and someones personal lifestyle so that they compliment each other.

As for external influences you have no control over, I agree. They shouldn't have much of an effect on a person.

You stated without studying buda or some such people don't have the skills, I'm saying the reason they don't have the skills is because they don't try to learn them.

It's like saying "I'm useless I can't build a set of presses" When the truth is you never even picked up the saw/level/hammer/measuring tape

Ahh i understand. But the simple fact is that most people have neither the patience nor the desire to focus in on themselves to the manner which would be needed for the kind of balance you described. I've been involved in NLP, meditation, & self-hypnosis for roughly 7 years, and what you describe is still difficult for me.

I feel that most people wouldn't be willing to achieve the balance within whereby nothing affects them. Instead its more reasonable that people focus on changing the external influences which affect them. e.g. work, friends, exercise etc.

I would of thought much like buddah if you were able to feel content regardless of the situation is what the the buddah views as "enlightment"

To be able to stand at your mothers funeral watch her put into the ground feel sad/cry yet still be capable of feeling content, that's a very powerful tool IMO and not needed to be addressed by a mental health practitioner (I'm not saying I could do this, just an example)

And an equal example would be your girlfriend leaving you because she never felt you were emotionally committed to her, having never showing passion or desire. Only contentment.

The manner you originally described the concept promoted having such contentment all the time. It didn't say that this was something to be applied to very particular areas of life.

I think the point your missing in the example and you can change the example sure, but the main point will remain the same, how you choose to react to the situation determines it's effect on you. one will be negative and set your day off and possibly spark off the start to a bad relationship etc where one just offers a hand to seek what might be wrong. i don't think changing the example changes anything you can always choose how you react.

The example you provided was about a boss/manager taking his own frustrations out on you in an extreme manner. In 13 years of employment, I've never received such a situation. Have you?

I don't really have much time at the moment, so I cut down the response. We're going a bit astray, and I get the feeling that I'm not understanding what you're really saying.

ntlbell

Deleted User wrote: »

And an equal example would be your girlfriend leaving you because she never felt you were emotionally committed to her, having never showing passion or desire. Only contentment.

The manner you originally described the concept promoted having such contentment all the time. It didn't say that this was something to be applied to very particular areas of life.

Not really sure I'm understanding you, why would I only show contentment? you can't be a big ball of passion and excitement 24/7/365 (maybe some people can) so you need to be able to be "happy" "content" regardless, that doesn't mean you don't enjoy the the "feelings" "times of" passion etc when it's there your just not constantly relying on it? am i making any sense?

It's about not relying on it and balance which means you can be "happy" "content" etc even when your no where near your partner, like people who can't cope when their not in a relationship,

their not content on their own they're not comfortable on their own they feel like they NEED to be in a relationship, they're "world ends" when they break up because they invested everything into it because it made them "happy" and now it's gone they're not, this is a bizzare way to behave imo

That is unhealthy.

Deleted User wrote: »

The example you provided was about a boss/manager taking his own frustrations out on you in an extreme manner. In 13 years of employment, I've never received such a situation. Have you?

Not that I can recall to me personally, I have seen it happen to others tho...

I don' think it was very extreme, I don't think i gave an example of anything really just the fact the boss might not be in the best of form and might say something to you he normally wouldn't say or just anything you didn't apreciate.

again what he says/does is really irrelvant to the example it was there to show the response that normally happens

people take it to heart they auto feel like they've just got picked on and take it very negativley

i don't know too many people who take being criticised.

try it out with a friend and see how well they take it

ntlbell

Deleted User wrote: »

I feel that most people wouldn't be willing to achieve the balance within whereby nothing affects them. Instead its more reasonable that people focus on changing the external influences which affect them. e.g. work, friends, exercise etc.

Forgot to address this one.

it's not about getting to a point where nothing affects you that's just becoming numb and more of an apathy to life.

that's not what i'm talking about at all.

lets take work.

say there's aspects to a job you don't like

great, change jobs.

ops, new job, there's new things i don't like. change jobs and it goes on and on and on.

so if you start to address the issues/problems and find out why and changing how you react to these problems or look at them in a different way, there's a much better chance of enjoying the job than leaving and doing something else and hoping for the best. that's just running away and hiding from the real problem, which just follows you.

it's like the old

"When I get out of college and earning money I'll be happy"

so you wish your college years away their gone and now your in a job.

"when i get promoted here and earn more money i'll be happy"

each step just brings a new set of problems and if you don't address the real ones it just goes on for ever

soon you'll be 64 have wished most of your life away and be saying

"when i reach retirement i'll play golf all day with my friends and then i'll be happy"

you reach 65 and realise most are your friends are dead and you can't play golf very well because of two hip replacements

new situation new problems, and always waiting for them to be gone.

the truth is they will never be gone but how you REACT to them can change.

johnnyskeleton

Alan Rouge wrote: »

Is this forum just a dumping ground or something ?

Hear Hear

"we don't want your thread, but it doesn't fit in anywhere else, so off to humanities it goes"