Traffic Lights & Private Roads

Sully

I am curious, if you break a set of traffic lights on a private road can they be enforced by the Gardai? In particular I am referring to a new roadway leading into a new shopping complex built on private land.

In Tramore, developers bought land and new Tesco, Lidl and are in the process of building another complex. A new roadway was created into this area and is controlled by traffic lights, roundabouts and the roads are all marked out. Is this road now considered a public road or does it remain private? If so, if someone ignores the traffic lights can the Guards issue fines/points?

Would be a very rare case as the Guards would never really be in the complex to notice. Just curious

Our man in Havana

Unless the road is adopted by Waterford County Council, then no they are unenforceable by the Gardaí.

Hooch

Sully wrote: »

I am curious, if you break a set of traffic lights on a private road can they be enforced by the Gardai? In particular I am referring to a new roadway leading into a new shopping complex built on private land.

In Tramore, developers bought land and new Tesco, Lidl and are in the process of building another complex. A new roadway was created into this area and is controlled by traffic lights, roundabouts and the roads are all marked out. Is this road now considered a public road or does it remain private? If so, if someone ignores the traffic lights can the Guards issue fines/points?

Would be a very rare case as the Guards would never really be in the complex to notice. Just curious

Bond-007 wrote: »

Unless the road is adopted by Waterford County Council, then no they are unenforceable by the Gardaí.

If the public have right of access then the Gardaí can in fact enforce it. I dont know the road but from what you have said i take it that it is right of access.

"public place" means any street, road or other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge - Road Traffic Act 1961 definition.

Our man in Havana

Fair enuff, I have known that the some of the RTA does apply to private roads where the public have access.
Now can traffic lights stuck up by a developer be enforced on private land? The same for made up speedlimits?

Hooch

Bond-007 wrote: »

Fair enuff, I have known that the some of the RTA does apply to private roads where the public have access.
Now can traffic lights stuck up by a developer be enforced on private land? The same for made up speedlimits?

Two questions there:)!
First the traffic lights are not (normally) erected by the developers here but an application is made to the council who erect them are charge there fee for such. No notices must be made that it is traffic light controled junction/road marking etc.

In regard to speed limit, this has to be brought in by the local council with the permission of the national roads authority. That change or addition has to be publised in local media (think its three different ones but not sure) and added to the nra list. So in fact a lot of new roads might have no speed limit for a week or two after opening if paperwork is not completed, as happened down in cork some time back. Although locals prosecuted by means of an fcps for driving without due care section 51 (a) if the speed was very much in excess of safe limits.

Hope this helps
NGA

Our man in Havana

The reason I asked about speedlimits is that many shopping centres have crazy 20 limits posted that cannot be legal or enforceable.
I was thinking that the extent of the Gardaí involvement would be wrt to tax,insurance and alcohol and driving in a supermarket car park.

Hooch

Bond-007 wrote: »

The reason I asked about speedlimits is that many shopping centres have crazy 20 limits posted that cannot be legal or enforceable.
I was thinking that the extent of the Gardaí involvement would be wrt to tax,insurance and alcohol and driving in a supermarket car park.

spot on bond. Thats the extent of it alright. Most of those shopping centre speed limits have no legal standin. There are some lawful 20 and 30 kmph zones but they are mostly parks etc.

Kimbot

Bond-007 wrote: »

The reason I asked about speedlimits is that many shopping centres have crazy 20 limits posted that cannot be legal or enforceable.
I was thinking that the extent of the Gardaí involvement would be wrt to tax,insurance and alcohol and driving in a supermarket car park.

I seen one in a shopping centre(Can't remember where it was but I'll try remember) that said 5km on them. Like 5km through a car park.... whoever thought of that one was seriously messed up!!

dermot_sheehan

Answer to this question is actually tricky enough.

Article 30 of the Road Traffic (Parking and Driving) Regulations 1997 provides that a person shall not pass traffic lights while red.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0182.html#zzsi182y1997a4

It defines traffic lights in terms of the Road Traffic (Signs) Regulations, 1997
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0181.html

which define a traffic lights as a regulatory sign.

These regulations are made under section 95 of the Road Traffic Act 1961 as amended by section 37 of the Road Traffic Act 1994 http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0007/sec0037.html.

These permit Road Authorities to erect regulatory signs (following a consultation process) and prohibit private persons from erecting a sign which looks like a regulatory sign which can be seen form a "public road", which is defined as a road which a roads authority has charge of.

So in a nutshell, although a private road is a public place within the meaning of the road traffic act, it is not a public road. Any person may erect a sign along this road therefore.

The question is whether an offence is committed by disobeying that sign. The Road Traffic (Parking and Driving) Regulations 1997 apply to any place that is a public place and any private person appears able to erect a traffic regulatory sign if they're not visable from a public road, so it appears anyone can erect a traffic sign or traffic control device along a private road, and provided its in compliance with the Signs regulations, to disobey it is an offence.

Victor

Sully wrote: »

I am curious, if you break a set of traffic lights on a private road can they be enforced by the Gardai? In particular I am referring to a new roadway leading into a new shopping complex built on private land.

Are these traffic lights exclusively on private land or merely at the entrance to private land?

While you might get away with breaking traffic lights most of the time on private land, if there is an incident then there might be a prosecution for dangerous driving, etc.

Sully

Victor wrote: »

Are these traffic lights exclusively on private land or merely at the entrance to private land?

While you might get away with breaking traffic lights most of the time on private land, if there is an incident then there might be a prosecution for dangerous driving, etc.

Both. A new road was created where it was just a field. At that enterance you have lights and as you drive on the new road you arrive at another junction which is controlled by lights again. These would be away from the first set on the main road which was just made wider to accommodate extra lanes of traffic to turn into the new roadway.

PeteK*

Is it true that you can not be prosecuted for breaking red lights that are temporary?

Road Works for example?

Hooch

PeteK* wrote: »

Is it true that you can not be prosecuted for breaking red lights that are temporary?

Road Works for example?

Untrue and added to breaking the light a prosecuion for Section 51(a) RTA or Section 52 RTA carless driving can be likely depending on the incident.

Sully

Are temporary speed limits enforced much, during roadworks?

I know some come up with odd limits during construction.

Hooch

Sully wrote: »

Are temporary speed limits enforced much, during roadworks?

I know some come up with odd limits during construction.

Depends on local arrangements and common sense really. (dont want to mislead)

Lets say a special limit of 60kmph for construction work on a road that was 100kmph. It would depend on road surface, volume of traffic, amount of construction etc etc. Really its down to every indiviual Garda....but I dont think you will see very many enforcing a 15 kmph speed to be far!!! Thats like the silly comments like i know this fella who was done for 3 kmph over. Nonsense

Common sense is used..........generally:)

Victor

PeteK* wrote: »

Is it true that you can not be prosecuted for breaking red lights that are temporary? Road Works for example?

False. While it may have once been ambiguous, there are now regulations in place.

Sully wrote: »

Are temporary speed limits enforced much, during roadworks?

They can be yes.

I know some come up with odd limits during construction.

Ther are two sets of limits, those put in place by a temporary speed limit order that typically apply to the entire stretch of road and advisory limits which apply to specific points.

Carawaystick

PeteK* wrote: »

Is it true that you can not be prosecuted for breaking red lights that are temporary?

Road Works for example?

If the lower edge of the lowest light is not between 2.1m and 3.05m above the ground then it is not a legal traffic light.
Road Traffic (Signs) regulations 1997, S33(vii)

Our man in Havana

Advisory limits are just that advisory thus not enforceable.

Traumadoc

I have a holiday home on a golf course and there is a 1.5km private road from my house to the clubhouse.
Could gardai set up checkpoints on a private road. For example on a road leading to the golf club house?