Are banks really doing SME loans?

CaraFawn

Just wondering since so many of them are advertising for loans like crazy, are they actually giving loans for SME or is it not even worth trying to get one if you don't own a house, have lots of assets etc?

Cheers

ntlbell

did you apply for one?

delllat

theyre not lashing out the cash as easily as they were but if you have a decent plan and not asking for a fortune i think ul still get it

if youre willing to offer a personal guarantee and have a decent credit history you will stand a strong chance of getting it

if your willing to put a property or a car on it u will definately get it though

ive heard its mainly the largely unsecured loans theyve practically stopped giving unlike the good old days when anyone could get a loan for anything :rolleyes:

CaraFawn

ntlbell wrote: »

did you apply for one?

No I am asking if it worth applying or if the banker will laugh at my face if I even ask the question given to the current market/financial situations
Been in business since July 2007 with average results, now I want to move forward.

I am looking for 70-80k top, still working on the biz plan right now.

ntlbell

CaraFawn wrote: »

No I am asking if it worth applying or if the banker will laugh at my face if I even ask the question given to the current market/financial situations
Been in business since July 2007 with average results, now I want to move forward.

I am looking for 70-80k top, still working on the biz plan right now.

Well I can't answer for every bank in the country.

But if you take the 3-4 mins to make a quick call to one or two you will get an idea pretty quickly.

As above unsecured will be very hard to get atm.

but you won't know until you get in touch with your bank.

CaraFawn

ntlbell wrote: »

Well I can't answer for every bank in the country.

But if you take the 3-4 mins to make a quick call to one or two you will get an idea pretty quickly.

As above unsecured will be very hard to get atm.

but you won't know until you get in touch with your bank.

Sure I just wanted to get some feedbacks here before calling them tomorrow.

leitrim lad

what a load of waffle,

i run several sme companies, the group turnes over 7-8 figure sum every year, so we need to borrow from time to time, and we have dealings with every bank in the country,

and they are locked tight, a waste of advertising, the only one making money out of it is rte.

recently put in for 1/4 of a mill to 4 banks to see the out come , not one of them got back to us yet, and that was around christmas

and yes our turn over is down but we have a profit margin after tax of 25% of our annual turnover, which many companies wouldnt have half that,

i would say it will be 18 months before they open up again, and another point if we cannot access our own funds from any of the banks, without massive bullsh1t and delaying from them , how would you expect them to lend money they havent got in the first place,

their broke they hevent even got our money let alone their own

CaraFawn

leitrim lad wrote: »

what a load of waffle,

i run several sme companies, the group turnes over 7-8 figure sum every year, so we need to borrow from time to time, and we have dealings with every bank in the country,

and they are locked tight, a waste of advertising, the only one making money out of it is rte.

recently put in for 1/4 of a mill to 4 banks to see the out come , not one of them got back to us yet, and that was around christmas

and yes our turn over is down but we have a profit margin after tax of 25% of our annual turnover, which many companies wouldnt have half that,

i would say it will be 18 months before they open up again, and another point if we cannot access our own funds from any of the banks, without massive bullsh1t and delaying from them , how would you expect them to lend money they havent got in the first place,

their broke they hevent even got our money let alone their own

Yeah pretty scary stuff, sorry to hear.

I have noticed recently they were much more aggressive with fees (AIB) and laser card trasnactions are taken out of the accounts instantly now. It was 1-2 days before. Looks like they are streched.

delllat

leitrim lad wrote: »

what a load of waffle,

i run several sme companies, the group turnes over 7-8 figure sum every year, so we need to borrow from time to time, and we have dealings with every bank in the country,

and they are locked tight, a waste of advertising, the only one making money out of it is rte.

recently put in for 1/4 of a mill to 4 banks to see the out come , not one of them got back to us yet, and that was around christmas

and yes our turn over is down but we have a profit margin after tax of 25% of our annual turnover, which many companies wouldnt have half that,

i would say it will be 18 months before they open up again, and another point if we cannot access our own funds from any of the banks, without massive bullsh1t and delaying from them , how would you expect them to lend money they havent got in the first place,

their broke they hevent even got our money let alone their own

just because the banks wouldnt give YOU a quarter of a mil doesnt mean they wont give the op 10 or 20 grand or whatever he needs

leitrim lad

i take it delllat you are another ,who is in a parellell world, listen to the news ,papers, even the dail every day, i dont follow labour but rory quinn made some very interesting points 2 weeks ago about a sme who wanted to buy an item that was vital to their trade,

it cost €120,000 plus vat the bank offered €60,000 all in so mr quinn said that if the sme had the other 60k in the first place they wouldnt need the bank, they needed the €120k what they asked for, not some simple little offer that was only going to leave them short in the long term ,

and you shouldnt accept less than what you apply for if your any way business led, because if you do you are just putting a rope around your own neck

the only way i can see the scum lending again is if you send in a solicitor to apply for your companies loan, and thats coming from expierence not poor old single minded delllat

delllat

leitrim lad wrote: »

i take it delllat you are another ,who is in a parellell world, listen to the news ,papers, even the dail every day, i dont follow labour but rory quinn made some very interesting points 2 weeks ago about a sme who wanted to buy an item that was vital to their trade,

it cost €120,000 plus vat the bank offered €60,000 all in so mr quinn said that if the sme had the other 60k in the first place they wouldnt need the bank, they needed the €120k what they asked for, not some simple little offer that was only going to leave them short in the long term ,

and you shouldnt accept less than what you apply for if your any way business led, because if you do you are just putting a rope around your own neck

the only way i can see the scum lending again is if you send in a solicitor to apply for your companies loan, and thats coming from expierence not poor old single minded delllat

your doing it again and making a general statement based on an isolated case,god knows why the bank wouldnt give that conpany 120k for a machine?

loans are decided on how beneficial or risky they are for the institute involved ,if you had half a brain you would realise that while banks may be stretched thin they will still bet on a sure thing ,you obviously were not a sure thing so they knocked u back

just dont tell everyone else they are doomed to fail becasue you failed

leitrim lad

look delllet your obviously a little scummy banker so keep your little opinions to your self,

not interested in them ,i know first hand what the wafflers in the banks are saying because i have to deal with them everyday,

and to put you straight on the matter im not a failure, my business is still going strong in a depression and it will still go strong when im gone and my children are incharge, not to many "failures" can say that.

and i suppose the €300m loan in anglo to buy shares in its own company was decided on how benefical mr fitz was able to sign the cheqe,, was it

how were the €90 000 000 000 worth of loans to developers decided or the d4 loans by ulster bank how would you class all that as beneficial or risky, you wally

come back to me when your fit to turn over a mill a week or more you bluffer

delllat

leitrim lad wrote: »

look delllet your obviously a little scummy banker so keep your little opinions to your self,

not interested in them ,i know first hand what the wafflers in the banks are saying because i have to deal with them everyday,

and to put you straight on the matter im not a failure, my business is still going strong in a depression and it will still go strong when im gone and my children are incharge, not to many "failures" can say that.

and i suppose the €300m loan in anglo to buy shares in its own company was decided on how benefical mr fitz was able to sign the cheqe,, was it

how were the €90 000 000 000 worth of loans to developers decided or the d4 loans by ulster bank how would you class all that as beneficial or risky, you wally

come back to me when your fit to turn over a mill a week or more you bluffer

well dont come here on ur high horse cause the banks wouldnt risk giving you a loan
dry your eyes ,we dont care
how dare you tell someone else he wont get a loan becasue u FAILED to get one
if your making a million a week why would u need a loan ?
why dont you just open a bank and we can all get our loans from you

the bank obviously doesnt have any confidence in you so why should we listen to you ?
another internet warrior who makes a million a week....;)

u forgot to tell us your a premiership footballer,U once beat mike tyson in madison square garden and miss world is your gf

get off the internet buddy ,u failed!

Hennybug

Not sure what they're doing generally but i think if you can put a good enough case to them backed up by decent business plan/statement of affairs they will do something. My Bank re-arranged my loans and gave me a temporary extension on my overdraft when it hit it's limit. So yes, it's worth going along and talking to them but be sure to have all your facts and figures to back up your request.

leitrim lad

so fcuken fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuunny i forgot to laugh,

and to put you straight on the matter, i didnt actually need the capital ,it was just a test to prove the point that the banks were closed for business,

and when they FAILED i just went across the road to the credit union and borrowed a cool 3mill hassle free, i bet a waffler like you dellet would only hate to give someone like carafawn that advice ,

yes the bluffers (dellet) in the bank are closed because guess what they fcuked up, but the credit union is well and truly open

i dont know why idiots like you are allowed on this site anyways dellet your imature antics and waffling is of no avail to the topic so fcuk to fcuk off with your self you wonker and talk bull to your little waffler banker friends while they still have their freedom

Good Karma

Hi there

Would have to agree with Leitrim Lad, by all means go to your bank and try and put a good case forward, but all that recapitalisation was just to top up their balance sheets, they are not giving it out at all.

I had a meeting with my business bank a couple of months ago and they told me smugly that out of the 3.5 billion, they were setting aside 1 billion for first time buyers. (that's an average of 5000 mortgages at 200k)

I asked so what are you doing with the other 2.5 billion? They quickly moved on to the next subject. They are keeping it on there books until the banks start lending to each other again, at the end of the day - the banks need to be credit worthy to each other.

I know of a few people who not only are they not getting a penny they ask for, but they are being told to reduce their overdrafts, etc - which in turn is putting them out of business.

delllat

leitrim lad wrote: »

so fcuken fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuunny i forgot to laugh,

and to put you straight on the matter, i didnt actually need the capital ,it was just a test to prove the point that the banks were closed for business,

and when they FAILED i just went across the road to the credit union and borrowed a cool 3mill hassle free, i bet a waffler like you dellet would only hate to give someone like carafawn that advice ,

yes the bluffers (dellet) in the bank are closed because guess what they fcuked up, but the credit union is well and truly open

i dont know why idiots like you are allowed on this site anyways dellet your imature antics and waffling is of no avail to the topic so fcuk to fcuk off with your self you wonker and talk bull to your little waffler banker friends while they still have their freedom

you obviously have to resort to writing fcuk every few words and insults because you have made a balls of your own argument

and then u try and blame the banks because YOU have failed to get money from THEM

your thread reminds me of a loser going up to chat up a hot girl and when he gets knocked back he starts ranting that she must be a lesbian

take your "cool 3 mil " and invest it in education since its quite obvious you need lessons

leitrim lad

they are lucky to have overdrafts good karma,

i know of cases where overdrafts were closed with no warning , how i know this is i got paid from another company via cheqe and it hit the roof, the other mans company allegedly didnt know the overdraft had been removed, (aib) nice crowd of wonkers advertising on rte arent they.

however as i said in a previous post do what im doing either credit union, or send your solicitor in to cut strips off the wafflers , the bank is there to supply a flow of credit to the economy, the economy is ran by 90% of sme firms, and if an sme cannot borrow then a bank is not serving its purpose,


i proved this to several bankers lately when i showed them i was a shareholder in their groups ,and they all got a hop because i have a substainsal share bought very cheap, in the big banks,


when i treatned their jobs, they soon did what i asked, because they then realised that even on a small scale i along with every other shareholder was their boss , and i also hold a stake in two uk banks who trade in the republic

so none of the B[EMAIL="Bast@rds"]ast@rds[/EMAIL] can even consider turning me away ,and i belive that every business in the country should hold a stake in a bank to control lending to the economy

smelltheglove

I went to the bank not so long ago, I had a very detailed plan drawn out with reference to all the bookings I have for the next year which would generate double the amount I was asking for and I had done no advertising.

Now bear in mind it was a startup I was looking for but the guy I met told me first of all I need a business account, obviously I was there to open on of those too, then he needs a few months record of ins and outs, I should get a check book and do all my paying through cheque. My problem as I explained to him was that at the minute as soon as the cash comes in it needs to go out on something else, hence the reason getting a start up loan which would also cover some advertising to increase bookings.

This banker recommended that I go to my personal bank and get a personal loan for the business then open my business account with him and if he feels fit he MAY take over the loan in a few months.

Well business account went elsewhere, so no I dont really think they are as willing to help as they say they are.

gnxx

In total agreement with leitrim lad here. Banks are not "lending" at the moment. They will lend if you have cash elsewhere as security :-)

To be honest, banks have never really provided small business with decent lending facilities -- any loan I've ever got was always secured etc.

gnxx

Also find myself agreeing with leitrim lad on overdrafts.

If you have any facility with a bank and plan using it, check that it still exists :-)

We generally operate in our bank accounts in credit. Despite having facilities on our accounts, we get unauthorised overdraft fees etc slapped onto our account ( they don't bounce the cheques fortunately ). When we contact the bank it appears that they cancel the overdraft after a period if it isn't used.

It is a pity that Brian Cowen wouldn't through a few billion in the direction of a new business bank instead of propping up the existing charlatans :-)

smelltheglove

Another one for overdrafts.

I never had one but from time to time would go under and get an unautorised charge but now if there isnt every penny for a direct debit it is retunred. They are not looking kindly on overdrafts.

leitrim lad

good to see im not the only one disagreeing with the child (dellet)

agreed gnxx
agreed smell the glove

but a good combination of putting a banker in their place is a shareholder,a solicitor and an accountant,

and give them lots of attitude, it seems alright for them to wreck our livelihoods but they expect us to turn around then and bail them assholes out

leitrim lad

and another thing bosi are the greatest shower of sh1thouses out there, no one answers the phone, when they do they tell you to ring another dept, and when you arrive to the branch they hide and shiver,

the biggest crowd of bluffers ever to enter this country

VO

leitrim lad wrote: »

so fcuken fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuunny i forgot to laugh,

and to put you straight on the matter, i didnt actually need the capital ,it was just a test to prove the point that the banks were closed for business,

and when they FAILED i just went across the road to the credit union and borrowed a cool 3mill hassle free, i bet a waffler like you dellet would only hate to give someone like carafawn that advice ,

yes the bluffers (dellet) in the bank are closed because guess what they fcuked up, but the credit union is well and truly open

i dont know why idiots like you are allowed on this site anyways dellet your imature antics and waffling is of no avail to the topic so fcuk to fcuk off with your self you wonker and talk bull to your little waffler banker friends while they still have their freedom

You didn't need the money and it was just a test but then you went across the road to the credit union and and borrowed 3 mill hassle free.

Hans Christian Anderson

newman10

Have to agree with LeitrimLad, Banks are shut especially if you are in Retail. Overdraft reduced and Stocking Loans a distant memory.

Waiting 3 weeks for reply to 25k loan.

leitrim lad

yes vo is there a problem with that,

just goes to show that we have children taking part in our conversations, ie your self vo and dellet

this topic is about small medium business loans ,not sarcastic comments that a teenager who doesnt understand business would come out with,

we are talking about real money and real business, so if either of you have nothing productive to add , find another part if the site that facilitates children.


newman10, smell the glove and gnxx you could go to the credit union but you would want to be long standing with them and the rates are a little higher so ,thats cutting the profit margin,

but i can tell you we have not seen the bottom yet

delllat

leitrim lad wrote: »

yes vo is there a problem with that,

just goes to show that we have children taking part in our conversations, ie your self vo and dellet

this topic is about small medium business loans ,not sarcastic comments that a teenager who doesnt understand business would come out with,

we are talking about real money and real business, so if either of you have nothing productive to add , find another part if the site that facilitates children.


newman10, smell the glove and gnxx you could go to the credit union but you would want to be long standing with them and the rates are a little higher so ,thats cutting the profit margin,

but i can tell you we have not seen the bottom yet

your problem is when people dont agree with how great and powerful u think u are you start to insult them
bit small and petty for a man making a cool mil every week dont ta think ?
of course none of us will ever understand business
none of us will ever get a loan since u couldnt get one
get a grip on your self u tosser
u dont just like it that people know ur full of sh1t
go and borrow another few mil as a "test"....;)
o yeah ,forgot u own the banks as well,why can u not give loans to us ?:D

newman10

delllat wrote: »

your problem is when people dont agree with how great and powerful u think u are you start to insult them
bit small and petty for a man making a cool mil every week dont ta think ?
of course none of us will ever understand business
none of us will ever get a loan since u couldnt get one
get a grip on your self u tosser
u dont just like it that people know ur full of sh1t
go and borrow another few mil as a "test"....;)
o yeah ,forgot u own the banks as well,why can u not give loans to us ?:D

Hi delllat

SME's have serious problems at the moment and I am not talking a a Celtic Tiger cub. I started in retail in the early 90s when there was not a bob in this country so I think I do know what I am talking about.

Simple propositions put to Banks which would enable me to increase my profitability have been unanswered. Pressure has been put on us to repay our existing agreements earlier and one agreement haas been torn up by the bank.

As a retailer who did not create this crisis I feel that because I have some ability to generate cash that pressure is being put on retailers to get the money in.

The cannot get it off developers/builders/speculators so they are making damm sure that those of still in business have a noose around our necks

newman10

Hi Leitrim Lad

I did get the loan of the CU and have decided to use them for paying bills and buying drafts etc

leitrim lad

thanks lads a bit of sense at last,

im in a bit of everything retail,agriculture, contracting, civil engineering (construction) dont hold it against me im not a builder/developer

but on all fronts no matter what trade you have they are closed,

i no a man who has 300k in his personal account and it took 6 months fighting to get it out ,because he didnt think the bank was a safe place, he put it in the credit union, but it took a solicitor to get it for him in the end

so on that they have no money,

GoneShootin

Leitrim Lad banned for 2 days for being the agressor
Dallet banned for 2 days for reciprocating in kind

Both of you take your pointless internet war to PM...

Bellies

Hi Letrim Lad,

I'm also a small cog in the Irish economy that is making a small but significant contribution. I'm fully aware of the position that the banks are in at the moment but I think your story "stinks". Maybe a brave, bold or harsh statement to make, but I quote you in an earlier post ,stating that you earn a cool mill a week????? (A true business man never reveals, or brags especially here)

Now hold on a sec, lets not get carried away here kiddo!! 52 weeks in the year would provide you with an gross turn over of 52million per annum-Correct?

You continue to state you wanted to borrow 3million for a particular bank and they refused you! Very Very Fishy.

Grand accept it and move on!

I have great difficulty in understanding how a Credit Union in the Rep. of Ireland has granted a loan of such an ammount of 3m!! The process here is quite long and detailed and must be passed by the board.

Also, I'm delighted to see that you have your hand stuck in many pots such as Retail, Construction Civil Eng etc.. All of the above have struggled greatly over the last 12 months,
Retail sales have dropped by approx 24%
Construction has hit wall and has a total unemployment in excess of 100k
And Civil Eng is a by product of construction

Interesting mill a week...

I'd presume your paying all taxes and making your contribution to the Irish economy??

stepbar

It's no wonder Leitrim Lad is having problems with his bankers. With an attidute like that I wouldn't blame some of them for ignoring him.

And as for going across the road and getting 3 mil form the credit union just beggers belief. In fact considering that the biggest credit union in the country has around 100 mil in assets and is in trouble - http://examiner.ie/ireland/idojidaucw/. I can say with confidence that you're being a bit economical with the truth. The credit unions are a disaster at the moment and have been (IMO) poorly managed at the best of times.

Bandara

this mis the biggest load of tripe posted here in a long time.

So L-Lad is saying that he took the time to apply for a 250k loan in FOUR seperate banks.......(a loan that he never actrually wanted or had any intention of taking out if approved)

"and to put you straight on the matter, i didnt actually need the capital ,it was just a test to prove the point that the banks were closed for business"

This is utter complete and utter horse poo, so just to clarify what you are saying here.... you approached 4 banks, setup appointments with each of them, met them, went through a fabricated reason why you needed the money, and then waited for them to reply, all solely to prove to yourself that banks are closed for business? So you spend the best part of 4 half days doing this?

Of course you did.

:rolleyes:


And furthermore, anyone who puts an 8 figure sum through a bank each year will ALWAYS get a reponse from their business manager be it negative or otherwise, not to mention the fact that you will have the direct mobile number of your BM/Branch manager and can contact them at anytime. To suggest you would not is a complete fabrication.

Sonnenblumen

Bellies wrote: »

Hi Letrim Lad,

I'm also a small cog in the Irish economy that is making a small but significant contribution. I'm fully aware of the position that the banks are in at the moment but I think your story "stinks". Maybe a brave, bold or harsh statement to make, but I quote you in an earlier post ,stating that you earn a cool mill a week????? (A true business man never reveals, or brags especially here)

Now hold on a sec, lets not get carried away here kiddo!! 52 weeks in the year would provide you with an gross turn over of 52million per annum-Correct?

You continue to state you wanted to borrow 3million for a particular bank and they refused you! Very Very Fishy.

Grand accept it and move on!

I have great difficulty in understanding how a Credit Union in the Rep. of Ireland has granted a loan of such an ammount of 3m!! The process here is quite long and detailed and must be passed by the board.

Also, I'm delighted to see that you have your hand stuck in many pots such as Retail, Construction Civil Eng etc.. All of the above have struggled greatly over the last 12 months,
Retail sales have dropped by approx 24%
Construction has hit wall and has a total unemployment in excess of 100k
And Civil Eng is a by product of construction

Interesting mill a week...

I'd presume your paying all taxes and making your contribution to the Irish economy??

Civil Eng is far more substantial than your inference suggests ' by product of construction'. Yes 'housing construction has all but ceased, but any casual observer could see plenty of 'above the ground' Civil eng project activity, ie infrastructural development,eg, M50 Upgrades, NRA's motorway expansion, Luas, there are bridges being built all over the country even another over the Liffey. There is also significant 'below the ground' (to do with water etc) civil eng activity taking place.

Sure there are some slow downs but much less so in civil eng area.

madmik

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Civil Eng is far more substantial than your inference suggests ' by product of construction'. Yes 'housing construction has all but ceased, but any casual observer could see plenty of 'above the ground' Civil eng project activity, ie infrastructural development,eg, M50 Upgrades, NRA's motorway expansion, Luas, there are bridges being built all over the country even another over the Liffey. There is also significant 'below the ground' (to do with water etc) civil eng activity taking place.

Sure there are some slow downs but much less so in civil eng area.

fair enough ,theres still afew civil projects here and there

but leitrim lad was so full of sh1t the entire forum was starting to smell bad :rolleyes:

is_that_so

I am not sure about loans although will find out from bank shortly as I need to look at a possible business loan. Overdrafts are not a problem for me , although I have been inclined to get a rolling temporary overdraft rather than a permanent one. Beyond the usual line about underwriters they've gone through almost immediately. Much of this I would put down to my attitude and the bank's attitude. Any time I foresaw difficulties I was on to them to look at the finances. That and my credit rating have certainly helped matters.

busman

stepbar wrote: »

The credit unions are a disaster at the moment and have been (IMO) poorly managed at the best of times.

Kettle=Pot=Black!

Bellies

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Civil Eng is far more substantial than your inference suggests ' by product of construction'. Yes 'housing construction has all but ceased, but any casual observer could see plenty of 'above the ground' Civil eng project activity, ie infrastructural development,eg, M50 Upgrades, NRA's motorway expansion, Luas, there are bridges being built all over the country even another over the Liffey. There is also significant 'below the ground' (to do with water etc) civil eng activity taking place.

Sure there are some slow downs but much less so in civil eng area.

I fully understand that, however,considering that Letrim-Lad was ranting and raving at the fact that he had a finger in each pie and was making a considerable mill a week was extremely hard to accept!!

I'm well aware of the three Engineering activities whether it being Civil, Mechanical or Process.

Take a look at the skylines on your way home from work today... Notice how little crains are around!?
The Luas is that project still going on, I taught that they pulled the funding on that!? (i'm open to correction).

But is the funding there for these infrastructural projects??

newman10

Leitrim Lad had his rant but the question is are the Banks lending to SMEs.

No one seems to have answered the question because most businesses have had Banking facitities curtailed in some way or the other.

It has not been called The Credit Crunch for no other reason than Credit is not available.

Bellies

I got a small loan and had no problem for it. Come on, there is a reason for everything!

1. Credit Rating
2. Does the applicant have a guaranteed income to make the repayments?
3. How many outstanding loans does this individual have?
4. Are they only paying the interest?

If you drew up a fairly detailed business plan and explained to the banks that you knew what you were entering, knew your costs, knew what competitors were charging and had a distinct competitive advantage I'm sure they'd be impressed?

Would you agree??

GoneShootin

madmik wrote: »

f
but leitrim lad was so full of sh1t the entire forum was starting to smell bad :rolleyes:

2 day ban for needless abuse.

gnxx

Bellies,

You second point is interesting "Does the applicant have a guaranteed income to make the repayments?".

In my experience, banks do not lend based on business plans. They do not lend on balance sheets unless they show lots of cash ( why would you need a loan ) or assets.

In my experience banks will lend you money if:

a) You have a fulltime job working for somebody else ( but not if you are working self-employed )

b) You personally have the assets to back up the loan. Houses were good a few years ago. Now you need cash :-)

c) Your company ( or one of them ) has sufficient cash or fixed assets to borrow the required amount

In terms of lending to businesses or self-employed people, banks take a zero-risk approach. They will only lend if they are 100% certain they can claw the money back somehow.

Furthermore, the majority of bank managers would be unable to read / understand either a business plan or a balance sheet.

In my experience, you could walk into a bank with the greatest business plan ever but will not be able to borrow unless the above applies.

My experience is with amounts between €20,000 - €250,000.

It would be nice if somebody contradicts me here :-) But if you do expect a PM asking for the name of your bank manager :-)

Bellies wrote: »

I got a small loan and had no problem for it. Come on, there is a reason for everything!

1. Credit Rating
2. Does the applicant have a guaranteed income to make the repayments?
3. How many outstanding loans does this individual have?
4. Are they only paying the interest?

If you drew up a fairly detailed business plan and explained to the banks that you knew what you were entering, knew your costs, knew what competitors were charging and had a distinct competitive advantage I'm sure they'd be impressed?

Would you agree??

newman10

Bellies wrote: »

I got a small loan and had no problem for it. Come on, there is a reason for everything!

1. Credit Rating
2. Does the applicant have a guaranteed income to make the repayments?
3. How many outstanding loans does this individual have?
4. Are they only paying the interest?

If you drew up a fairly detailed business plan and explained to the banks that you knew what you were entering, knew your costs, knew what competitors were charging and had a distinct competitive advantage I'm sure they'd be impressed?

Would you agree??

Your reply is a little patronising and seems like the reply of someone who is employed by a Financial Institution.

As regards Business Plans you should know that paper never refused ink and are only used to give a business outline.

I once gave a Business Plan drawn up by a well recognised Off Licence chain to the Bank and was told that it did not make any difference to the aplication and as you well know that Loan Managers in all Banks have now had their functions changed to Credit Control Managers

Bellies

Yes I have worked in a bank in previous employment.

It's a standard procedure to draft some sort of a business plan. Managers dont issue large loans, you'll see that they have to send it off to a dept. here there and everywhere to get it passed!! Each branch manager has a certain cut off point, if they cant approve of it, they must write a recommendation on your behalf!

Lets not get off the point here, I critised Letrim Lad on his lack of knowledge towards the banks and CU's!

If you want to debate are banks issuing to SME's why not ring your branch manager and see what he says to you.

However, I agree that business plans are awaste of time, but prove to the bank that your serious and have put significant taught into the potential business.

All business plans are knocked on their arse once the company is off the ground.

Newman10 have you had any issues??

Also I propose that the 2day ban is lifted on person who opposed Letrim lad!

newman10

Bellies wrote: »

Lets not get off the point here, I critised Letrim Lad on his lack of knowledge towards the banks and CU's!

If you want to debate are banks issuing to SME's why not ring your branch manager and see what he says to you.

Newman10 have you had any issues??

Hi Bellies

The point is are the Banks lending. Letrim Lad had his rant and it did show a lack of knowledge but we do not know it how he has been treated by the Banks

I do not have any problem in debating what the banks are doing at the moment and I do understand the need to rebuild the Balance Sheets, but at whose expense will these Balance Sheets be rebuilt.

The Large Property Developers/Builders/Speculators do not at this time seem to be part of this rebuilding process.

I have good friends who work in the Banks. These people have said that it is now all about Credit Control not about lending. My local Branch manager has not been seen in public since christmas. This he has freely admitted.

I do have issues with a Bank and I would prefer not to go into it in a public forum

fmcc

From my experiance and speaking to others banks are willing to restructure existing debt over a longer period of time but not give any extra finance.

byrne0f56789

The banks are just acting logically. In the current economic climate most businesses are too risky to lend to. The risk vs return is just not worth it. Any collateral the bank can get is seriously devalued right now. Also, the banks are trying to strengthen their balance sheets and loans to SMEs just don't do that. Small business is hurting and the banks are keeping well away.

Check out the article by Michael Casey from the IMF in today's (16th April) Irish Times. It gives a good perspective on the matter.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0416/1224244811771.html

The Minstrel

What sort of collateral do the banks need for small time start-ups? I mean if just some regular bell-end walks into the bank looking for the cash for a fit-out and lease of a small shop and has no cash. What kind of part can a guarantor play in such a case? How supportive are banks to these kind of johnny-wet-behind-the-ears start-ups?